Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [16.01.14] V45 Fixes

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Re: Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [5.12] V29-GFX Last Call

Postby nolefan5311 on Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:40 pm

cairnswk wrote:
nolefan5311 wrote:
cairnswk wrote:
And perhaps I'm being dense here, but regions like Diana, Sun, Moon, Doncella, etc., aren't LB's or SS's, but have the Monarch's Commander's shields there...is there something special about these regions?

yes these are starting positions, refer map front page.

Thanks cairns. Can they also be assaulted by the Treasury positions like the Command Ships and SS's/LB's can?


Instructions- Treasury Movement:
Each player can move one-way outward to earn additional bonuses or can assault from any treasury position to same player's Command Ship (B & S), Supply Ship (SS), or Land Base (LB) only.

Does that modification answer that? In other words no they cannot be assaulted from the treasury.

And SS Amor (for D. Medina Sedona) is not the same color as all the other SS's.

that is now fixed in v30 above. SS and colour has been removed from Julia Zabra. and SS Amor is now same colour as other SS's.


Sure does. Thanks cairns!
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Re: Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [5.12] V29-GFX Last Call

Postby cairnswk on Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:14 pm

Version 30....bumped
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Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [5.12] V29-GFX Last Call

Postby cairnswk on Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:17 pm

cairnswk wrote:This question needs to be examined again.

The +11 bonus...is that ONLY for holding the Monarch and 4 Treasury territories? Or does that include the bow and stern of the command ships as well? The "Commander's" in the legend has me a little confused. I don't believe it includes any part of the command ships, but I just want to make sure.

This bonus should include the bow and stern of the command ship, plus all the treasury territories but not the Monarch position.

I think that now the wording has changed a little, this bonus can be brought down somewhat...what do others think?

Still wanting someone to address this issue please. :)
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Re: Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [8.12] V30-GFX Last Call

Postby nolefan5311 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:04 am

I've been hesitant to comment on this since I'm involved with the project, but I do think it could be reduced, possibly even removed altogether, especially with the high amount of autodeploys in the treasury positions.

You know what you could do is institute a new XML feature, the multiplier. Maybe have the bonus as a +3, and multiplied for every Command Ship held, or something like that.

If you do keep it, I think the wording needs to be changed to, "Hold all Treasury positions and both Command ship regions for a Monarch, +11 (or whatever the bonus will be). Or something like that. As it's currently worded, it sounds like the Monarch's Commander is a required territory.
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Re: Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [8.12] V30-GFX Last Call

Postby cairnswk on Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:55 pm

nolefan5311 wrote:I've been hesitant to comment on this since I'm involved with the project, but I do think it could be reduced, possibly even removed altogether, especially with the high amount of autodeploys in the treasury positions.

please don't hesitate to comment simply because you're doing the xml. :)
i thought this was about getting the gameplay sorted and since there is very little activity in comments otherwise, why not put your ideas forward!

You know what you could do is institute a new XML feature, the multiplier. Maybe have the bonus as a +3, and multiplied for every Command Ship held, or something like that.
If you do keep it, I think the wording needs to be changed to, "Hold all Treasury positions and both Command ship regions for a Monarch, +11 (or whatever the bonus will be). Or something like that. As it's currently worded, it sounds like the Monarch's Commander is a required territory.


How about: "Hold a Monarch's Commander's Ship and corresponding Treasury +2"
i think +2 is enough to give out as incentive on top of the other:
+1 for holding the B & S
+13 for holding all the treasury.


While i am at it...i think it will change also the Losing condition wording to:
"Players failing to hold any non-Treasury and Commander's ship will be eliminated"
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Re: Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [8.12] V30-GFX Last Call

Postby nolefan5311 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:07 pm

cairnswk wrote:How about: "Hold a Monarch's Commander's Ship and corresponding Treasury +2"
i think +2 is enough to give out as incentive on top of the other:
+1 for holding the B & S
+13 for holding all the treasury.


While i am at it...i think it will change also the Losing condition wording to:
"Players failing to hold any non-Treasury and Commander's ship will be eliminated"


So it will be +13 for holding all the Treasury then?

And I do think you need to leave "region" after "non-Treasury". And I like that you have to hold a Monarch's Commander to stay alive. It's not too easy to kill someone off because of the whole conditional borders thing, and because those are the most important regions on the map, honestly. That's where everything starts. You could word it to say, "Players holding only a Treasury territory will be eliminated". That would make it easier for me to code too :lol:
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Re: Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [8.12] V30-GFX Last Call

Postby cairnswk on Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:25 pm

nolefan5311 wrote:
cairnswk wrote:How about: "Hold a Monarch's Commander's Ship and corresponding Treasury +2"
i think +2 is enough to give out as incentive on top of the other:
+1 for holding the B & S
+13 for holding all the treasury.


While i am at it...i think it will change also the Losing condition wording to:
"Players failing to hold any non-Treasury and Commander's ship will be eliminated"


So it will be +13 for holding all the Treasury then?

well yes, that's what that adds up to, unless you think it can be dropped down to +1 +1 +2 +3 = +7 instead of +1 +3 +4 +5 = +13

And I do think you need to leave "region" after "non-Treasury".

:oops: i poo-pooed...done!

And I like that you have to hold a Monarch's Commander to stay alive. It's not too easy to kill someone off because of the whole conditional borders thing, and because those are the most important regions on the map, honestly. That's where everything starts. You could word it to say, "Players holding only a Treasury territory will be eliminated". That would make it easier for me to code too :lol:

I think i'd like to stick with the current wording and play. ;)
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Re: Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [8.12] V30-GFX Last Call

Postby nolefan5311 on Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:49 am

cairnswk wrote:
nolefan5311 wrote:
cairnswk wrote:How about: "Hold a Monarch's Commander's Ship and corresponding Treasury +2"
i think +2 is enough to give out as incentive on top of the other:
+1 for holding the B & S
+13 for holding all the treasury.


While i am at it...i think it will change also the Losing condition wording to:
"Players failing to hold any non-Treasury and Commander's ship will be eliminated"


So it will be +13 for holding all the Treasury then?

well yes, that's what that adds up to, unless you think it can be dropped down to +1 +1 +2 +3 = +7 instead of +1 +3 +4 +5 = +13

And I do think you need to leave "region" after "non-Treasury".

:oops: i poo-pooed...done!


I like the autodeploy amounts at what they currently are, and think any "droppable" bonus should be reduced to something like a +2 or +3, since they can really only be attacked, conditionally, through the Commander's Command Ship.
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Re: Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [13.12] V31-GFX

Postby cairnswk on Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:04 pm

nolefan5311 wrote:...
I like the autodeploy amounts at what they currently are, and think any "droppable" bonus should be reduced to something like a +2 or +3, since they can really only be attacked, conditionally, through the Commander's Command Ship.
OK. +3 it is.

Version 31.
1. new beacons
2. bonus dropped from +11 to +3

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Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [14.12] V31-Lge&Sml

Postby cairnswk on Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:29 pm

Pls note the sizes have changed, as per front page.
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Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [14.12] V31-Lge&Sml

Postby cairnswk on Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:10 pm

This is the new 888s map for the new small size map

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Re: Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [13.12] V31-GFX

Postby cairnswk on Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:18 pm

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Re: Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [14.12] V31-Lge&Sml

Postby nolefan5311 on Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:20 pm

Cairns, is the neutrals map on the first post up to date?

Do you want a max amount of starting positions? In a 1v1 game, each player will be dropped 6, which I think is a little overkill. If I max it at 3 it will only affect 2 and 3 player games.

The Supply Ships and Land Bases +1...are those autodeploy, or a droppable bonus?
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Re: Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [14.12] V31-Lge&Sml

Postby cairnswk on Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:01 pm

nolefan5311 wrote:Cairns, is the neutrals map on the first post up to date?
Yes.

Do you want a max amount of starting positions? In a 1v1 game, each player will be dropped 6, which I think is a little overkill. If I max it at 3 it will only affect 2 and 3 player games.

max at 3 please.

The Supply Ships and Land Bases +1...are those autodeploy, or a droppable bonus?

If they do not state autodeploy, then they are deploy on drop.
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Re: Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [14.12] V31-Lge&Sml

Postby iancanton on Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:10 am

perhaps select a couple of different ship names if possible? u currently have Girona and La Girona, also Asunción and La Asunción, which will cause unnecessary confusion. SS Paxat La Isabela ought to be SS Paxat la Isabela, with a lower case l.

in the losing condition legend, does commander's ship mean exactly the same as command ship in the bonus legend? make it clearer that it's unnecessary to hold both bow and stern to avoid elimination.

ian. :)
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Re: Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [14.12] V31-Lge&Sml

Postby cairnswk on Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:12 am

iancanton wrote:perhaps select a couple of different ship names if possible? u currently have Girona and La Girona, also Asunción and La Asunción, which will cause unnecessary confusion. SS Paxat La Isabela ought to be SS Paxat la Isabela, with a lower case l.

fixed next version 32 :)

in the losing condition legend, does commander's ship mean exactly the same as command ship in the bonus legend? make it clearer that it's unnecessary to hold both bow and stern to avoid elimination.

ian. :)

since a commander's ship consists of both bow and stern, it is necessary to hold both.
Losing Condition: Players failing to hold any non-treasury region and any Commander's Ship (B & S) will be eliminated
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Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [16.12] V32-Lge&Sml

Postby cairnswk on Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:06 pm

Version 32
1. three new ship names
2. change to losing condition and playing terminolgy

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Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [16.12] V32-Lge&Sml

Postby iancanton on Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:40 pm

iancanton wrote:in the losing condition legend, does commander's ship mean exactly the same as command ship in the bonus legend?

is there a need to have them called by two different terms in different parts of the legend?

cairnswk wrote:since a commander's ship consists of both bow and stern, it is necessary to hold both.
Losing Condition: Players failing to hold any non-treasury region and any Commander's Ship (B & S) will be eliminated

at the start, each player holds only B or S of any ship, not both. in a 1v1 game, let's suppose that player 1 starts with rainbow S. if he stacks rainbow S and attacks rainbow B but fails to conquer it, then he satisfies the losing condition at the end of his turn, therefore player 2 wins the game without playing a turn. is this what u intended?

just so that i understand the assaults from the treasury: a T region can assault the same player's cs, ss or lb, in other words a T region that green occupies can assault any cs, but only if green already occupies B or S of that cs; however, a green T region can never assault an ss or lb, though he can fort to any ss or lb that is already green. am i right?

we have another duplicate: san lorenzo cs and san lorenzo next to san cristobal. asunción and la concepción are missing the ó.

ian. :)
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Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [16.12] V32-Lge&Sml

Postby nolefan5311 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:52 pm

iancanton wrote:
cairnswk wrote:since a commander's ship consists of both bow and stern, it is necessary to hold both.
Losing Condition: Players failing to hold any non-treasury region and any Commander's Ship (B & S) will be eliminated

at the start, each player holds only B or S of any ship, not both. in a 1v1 game, let's suppose that player 1 starts with rainbow S. if he stacks rainbow S and attacks rainbow B but fails to conquer it, then he satisfies the losing condition at the end of his turn, therefore player 2 wins the game without playing a turn. is this what u intended?


I've come across the same issue in the code, and was going to seek clarification tonight cairns :)

iancanton wrote:just so that i understand the assaults from the treasury: a T region can assault the same player's cs, ss or lb, in other words a T region that green occupies can assault any cs, but only if green already occupies B or S of that cs; however, a green T region can never assault an ss or lb, though he can fort to any ss or lb that is already green. am i right?


What I take this to mean is that a player holding Don Diego Medrano can, from his Monarch position and from any Treasury square, attack the like "shield" of that Commander. So, a player occupying Medrano can attack either B or S of Capitania, SS Bazana, or Diana only. I think "players" used in the phrasing is what's causing the confusion. At least that's how I've written (or plan to right) the attacks.
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Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [16.12] V32-Lge&Sml

Postby cairnswk on Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:03 pm

iancanton wrote:
iancanton wrote:in the losing condition legend, does commander's ship mean exactly the same as command ship in the bonus legend?

is there a need to have them called by two different terms in different parts of the legend?

my question to you...does it matter? Surely players can ascertain that the Commander's ship and Command ship can be one in the same thing.
Trying to get all the grammer/vocab to be absolutely perfect is not my intention, but rather so that it is understandable.
You wouldn't happen to be a virgo by any chance ian? :)

cairnswk wrote:since a commander's ship consists of both bow and stern, it is necessary to hold both.
Losing Condition: Players failing to hold any non-treasury region and any Commander's Ship (B & S) will be eliminated


at the start, each player holds only B or S of any ship, not both. in a 1v1 game, let's suppose that player 1 starts with rainbow S. if he stacks rainbow S and attacks rainbow B but fails to conquer it, then he satisfies the losing condition at the end of his turn, therefore player 2 wins the game without playing a turn. is this what u intended? [/quote]
no, he is in no better position than he was at the start of his turn.

in a 1v1 game, how many "player slots" will each player hold? my cals tell me /3 they will hold 4 each since there are 12 player slots, and..
even if we only have 8 player slots (as per game engine), they still have 2 each. This includes the other "shielded ships" which to my reckoning are non-treasury and non-commander ships...

So since holding one of these is a condition of remaining in the game, would not a player be very stupid if he did not try on his first turn to fortify that "remaining in the game" position by taking one of the "unshielded ships" adjacant to his start position.

And remember, the losing condition contains an "and" function not an "or" function.

just so that i understand the assaults from the treasury: a T region can assault the same player's cs, ss or lb,
yes...but let's use commander's (sorry for the ambigiuty of using player)...so a T region can assault the same Commander's cs, ss or lb...
...in other words a T region that green occupies can assault any cs, but only if green already occupies B or S of that cs;


...well, let's get away from green and go to commanders names...(i'll change that)

if you occupy sir Martin Frobishers CS or LB, you can fort to them from SMF's M or T positions.

If your opponent occupies SMF's CS or LB, you would want to assault those posistions from SMF's M or T positions.

however, a green T region can never assault an ss or lb, though he can fort to any ss or lb that is already green. am i right?
yes. SMF's M/T region can fort to his own cs, or lb...and the same for the Spanish.

1. at the start of the game, you can fort to any CS or LB from M of the same commmander
2. at the start of the game, you cannot conquer another Commander's (or players) M position or their CS positions to eliminate them.
3. if at some stage during the game your opponent conquers one of your CS positions, and then conquers your M position, your opponent can also assault your other CS position and LB from your previously held M position. your opponent can then conquer your other T positions.
4. In order for you to get back your M position, you must conquer a S or B position of your opponent's Commander ship.

we have another duplicate: san lorenzo cs and san lorenzo next to san cristobal. asunción and la concepción are missing the ó.
ian. :)

will fix. san lorenzo cs...stet.
san lorenzo next to san cristobal...changed to Santo Andres
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Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [16.12] V32-Lge&Sml

Postby cairnswk on Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:14 pm

nolefan5311 wrote:
iancanton wrote:
cairnswk wrote:since a commander's ship consists of both bow and stern, it is necessary to hold both.
Losing Condition: Players failing to hold any non-treasury region and any Commander's Ship (B & S) will be eliminated

at the start, each player holds only B or S of any ship, not both. in a 1v1 game, let's suppose that player 1 starts with rainbow S. if he stacks rainbow S and attacks rainbow B but fails to conquer it, then he satisfies the losing condition at the end of his turn, therefore player 2 wins the game without playing a turn. is this what u intended?


I've come across the same issue in the code, and was going to seek clarification tonight cairns :)

nolenfan5311...in the xml...
player's failing to hold any non-treasury region...means must have at least one.
players failing to hold any commander's B & S...means must have at least one Command ship.
therefore command ships have to be coded as continents.
you may have to code non-treasury positions with each Command Ship continent x 12 times but apply a different command ship each time.


iancanton wrote:just so that i understand the assaults from the treasury: a T region can assault the same player's cs, ss or lb, in other words a T region that green occupies can assault any cs, but only if green already occupies B or S of that cs; however, a green T region can never assault an ss or lb, though he can fort to any ss or lb that is already green. am i right?


What I take this to mean is that a player holding Don Diego Medrano can, from his Monarch position and from any Treasury square, attack the like "shield" of that Commander. So, a player occupying Medrano can attack either B or S of Capitania, SS Bazana, or Diana only. I think "players" used in the phrasing is what's causing the confusion. At least that's how I've written (or plan to right) the attacks.

Answered above i beleive.
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Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [16.12] V32-Lge&Sml&888s

Postby cairnswk on Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:36 pm

Version 33.

Click image to enlarge.
image


Click image to enlarge.
image
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Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [16.12] V32-Lge&Sml&888s

Postby isaiah40 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:39 am

The legend and the box directly above Elizabeth I, I don't think that the outer glow on the text is needed. There is a nice light background color with black text. I believe that it would be readable without the glow. Can you do just a couple so I can see it please? Other than that, everything is very clear and readable so This can be stickied!

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Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [16.12] V32-Lge&Sml&888s

Postby cairnswk on Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:39 am

isaiah40 wrote:The legend and the box directly above Elizabeth I, I don't think that the outer glow on the text is needed. There is a nice light background color with black text. I believe that it would be readable without the glow. Can you do just a couple so I can see it please? Other than that, everything is very clear and readable so This can be stickied!

Last Call

If anyone has any other comments on graphics, now is the time to speak up! If there are no other concerns within the next couple of days, this map will be moved to the Final Forge!

isaiah40


Isaiah40...here is your image requested...although i prefer the one above with the outer glow, and this was done for the reason to create a link to the top legend text in left corner...this one below looks very weak and it is #000000.

Click image to enlarge.
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Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [16.12] V32-Lge&Sml&888s

Postby isaiah40 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:21 pm

Yea, it is a little harder to read. My apologies, but I looked at this very early this am, but some of the borders are very pixelly. Especially the diagonal ones.

This post is just a figment of your spirit's imagination since the world ended at 11:11am! :lol:
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