4 Star Meats [17 March 2013] v29 pg40

[natty dread]

I disagree, if we're going to have to get a map about a butcher shop, then at least make it as good as it can be and develop the theme properly. This current map is not that, it's just the same old burger with new gravy.

[The Bison King]

I disagree, if we're going to have to get a map about a butcher shop, then at least make it as good as it can be and develop the theme properly. This current map is not that, it's just the same old burger with new gravy.

Yeah I think he was being sarcastic.

Maybe I'm just some dumb simpleton from the suburbs but I'm not seeing how the gameplay doesn't fit the theme. It's a butcher shop and the poster is of beef cuts. Done. This isn't a complicated concept I don't see why we have to make it one.

[koontz1973]

Well as graphics are the order of the day, you have my GP suggestions, here are some for graphics to try and get the next version looking more as it should.

Tiled wall - the tiles are to big, make the 25-50 smaller. This will give the poster a sense of size.
Paper background - bin this completely, you will never get this to work. It needs to be crisp with a sense of cleanliness.
Give the poster a nice frame - something in wood or metal but it needs to be clean and crisp.
Title - move to the middle (where the flies are) and give it a better font. Try this one. http://www.dafont.com/american-dream.font?fpp=50
Remove version 11 and what not. Not needed at all on the map.
Bonuses - make into a chalk board with prices. This will really help.
Sig - move to the bottom right of the poster itself and onto the tiles.
Little pieces of paper - when have you ever seen this in a butchers shop. All need to go and any relevant info goes onto the chalk board.
Bonus regions - have a look at splitting these apart. You have the room. Then you can put a meat texture over the whole thing or even a split up photo of a real cow. And lose the awful colours.
Army circles, unless you really need them, lose them.
Thats enough for now.

Game play side of things incase you missed them.
Bring in the other two legs like you did for the island map.
Lose flies, cow pat, grass.
Replace the grass with some scales and a normal 2 neutral attacked the same way as it is now.
Make the last two auto deploys normal bonuses with the 3 neutral on.
Remove all attack routes like tongue to grass.
Your fat barriers look OK but not too sure on the bonus numbers but they do look way off.

I know it is a lot to get your head around but it might be better to start from scratch as right now, the only thing that might be worth keeping is the cow itself.

These are bog standard images from the web but should give you an idea of how to make the poster itself look.


or you can go artistic if you feel adventurous.

[natty dread]

I disagree, if we're going to have to get a map about a butcher shop, then at least make it as good as it can be and develop the theme properly. This current map is not that, it's just the same old burger with new gravy.

Yeah I think he was being sarcastic.

Maybe I'm just some dumb simpleton from the suburbs but I'm not seeing how the gameplay doesn't fit the theme. It's a butcher shop and the poster is of beef cuts. Done. This isn't a complicated concept I don't see why we have to make it one.

Because that poster could just as well be on any wall. And there's things like flies and shit and grass - what do they have to do with butcher shops?

Frankly the current map image reminds me more of a page torn from a humour magazine and plastered on a toilet wall. There's nothing that says "butcher shop" on the map, it's just the same old cow map with some cosmetic upgrades.

The gameplay and graphics need to be consistent with the theme and support it. This is not the case here: where's there anything about butchery on this map? How does the gameplay reflect the profession of butchery? Maybe there could be some gameplay elements that would reward the player for "cutting" parts of the cow - I'm not sure how this would be implemented exactly, but that should be for the mapmaker to figure out. There could be territories like butcher knives here, that assault certain points of the cow. There could be a more elements of the butcher shop here - customers, the butcher himself, other meat products, the cash machine - stuff like that, to really bring the theme of a "butcher shop" together.

Because right now, the map is not of a butcher shop, it's just a cow. And as I recall, that's what the foundry foreman himself said was the problem with the map in the first place. Lackattack gave permission to create a map of a butcher shop, with the assistance and approval of the CA:s. That doesn't mean that lackattack's permission should be a free pass to ignore all design guidelines of the foundry, all ideals of thematic consistency. Those should still be followed. So if lack wants a map with a butcher shop theme, then the map should really be about a butcher shop, not just a random drawing of a cow on some random wall.

[The Bison King]

And there's things like flies and shit and grass - what do they have to do with butcher shops?

I agree that these territories should go, and be replaced with something like:

There could be territories like butcher knives here, that assault certain points of the cow.

These idea's however:

There could be a more elements of the butcher shop here - customers, the butcher himself, other meat products, the cash machine

I think are awful, and the same effect could easily be achieved by:

Instead of doing a mini map, try for a chalk board and instead of having bonuses, how about prices. So it would be
£6 Sirloin
£5 Rump
and so on.

Which I think is a fantastic idea!

[natty dread]

I think are awful

Why?

[Gillipig]

I think are awful

Why?

How could you possibly get a cashier and customers into this map? It's not about the butcher shop, it's about the image of a cow in his shop!

[natty dread]

It's not about the butcher shop, it's about the image of a cow in his shop!

But without the butcher shop, the image of cow might as well be anywhere. Without the butcher shop theme, the map will again be just a cow, and I think it was made very clear before that "just a cow" is not going to pass.

[The Bison King]

I think are awful

Why?

Because It just sounds like taking the concept and running wild with it, into an area that no one really asked for. This map is about the cow. The butcher shop elements should support that, not the other way around.

[Gillipig]

It's not about the butcher shop, it's about the image of a cow in his shop!

But without the butcher shop, the image of cow might as well be anywhere. Without the butcher shop theme, the map will again be just a cow, and I think it was made very clear before that "just a cow" is not going to pass.

Plenty of suggestions have been made that would make this map enough butcher themed if implemented. Bringing in cashier and customers are just not a good idea!

[natty dread]

I think are awful

Why?

Because It just sounds like taking the concept and running wild with it, into an area that no one really asked for. This map is about the cow. The butcher shop elements should support that, not the other way around.

No, the map is supposed to be about a butcher shop that features an image of a cow. It was already decided way back that a map about "just a cow" is not acceptable. A map about a butcher shop is, and if that cow map is a part of a butcher shop then it has a legitimate framework around it.

I'm not saying it has to be done exactly as I've suggested, with cashiers and such, but there needs to be elements in both the gameplay and graphics that really support the "butcher shop" theme. I don't think that's "running wild" with anything, I see that as developing a consistent and viable theme, which should be required of all CC maps.

[AndyDufresne]

I think the post-it note scraps and the wall are a step in the right direction, but they all look a little too perfect.


--Andy

[Flapcake]

Rigth now its just a poster of a cow on a wall, the poster could be on any wall, in a kids room, a school, a supermarked ect. wheres the bucthershop, the slaughter bench, the knifes/axes, the blood ect. ? I see now diffrent ohter than the small notes and the tiles from the original image.

[Gillipig]

Whenever I look at this thread I see a new post. If only all maps got as much attention as this one!!
Looking forward to what Dana does in his next update. I've seen a lot of good suggestions on how to make this map more "butchery". And some bad ones !

[thenobodies80]

Since it seems that we all agree about the butcher idea, I think that natty is right about "extend" a bit more the context, a simple wall isn't enough.
On the contrary represent a whole shop is too much, since it requires to resize the playable area and make it really small compared with the rest of the map.
But if dana wants to represent a butcher shop he can draw a counter (part of it is enough imo) or something like that and the playable map could be a sign
Or maybe a shop window? And bonuses could be special "offers" with prices, like koontz suggested.

I have something in my mind for a possible layout, but this week i'm really short with time so I don't have a way to draw something, maybe if i found 15 mins I'll draw a sketch on the paper and I'll post it here. But no promise for now.

Certainly the flies and the pat must go, they don't fit very well with the rest....right now I don't know what suggest to replace them.

Right now I'm too tired and sick to think/draw something...just what i can suggest is to enlarge the represented area a bit to create more context and explain a bit more the theme.

Nobodies