Classic Cities: Madrid [Quenched]

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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [30/8] V5 Pg 1/2

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:43 am

No comments since last version so I will take that as the names are some what correct but I have changed the bonus names to further eliminate the need for accuracy. Do not get me wrong, the names are correct, but they may not be at the correct orientation. Also, did not like the crest of Madrid so changed back to the guitar. Removed the last border and have gone back to paisley. Added a few more buildings as well. Still need buildings of Madrid though so await on those. Let the filigree in the corners though.
Click image to enlarge.
image


I tried to put the crest in different places but it just did not meld with the map.
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [3/9] V6 Pg 1/3

Postby snelliugmj on Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:33 am

As you say, the placement is not correct. My suggestion is:
Yellow (From north to south) Ciudad Lineal. Moratalaz, Vicálvaro.
Cyan (From north to south) Villa de Vallecas, Puente de Vallecas)
Blue (South east corner) Villaverde
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [3/9] V6 Pg 1/3

Postby snelliugmj on Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:51 am

As of the need of more buildings:

Plaza Castilla: (http://www.paladareventos.com/imagenesd ... io-web.jpg) goes north of Chamartin.
Puerta del sol: (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-5JO3fIfUBnw/T ... 1600/1.jpg) Somewhere in centro
Puente de toledo: (http://pictures2.todocoleccion.net/tc/2 ... 958261.jpg) bridge between Retiro and Villaverde (as I suggest) or actual Puente de Vallecas.
Torres de Madrid: (http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9 ... YuPPqE&t=1) West of Fuencarral
Cibeles: (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ti5eQn9jxZk/T ... eles02.jpg) Where you have now the bull ring
The bull ring (ventas) where the Stadium
The stadium between Chamberí and Tetuan and the other stuff please get rid of (I can't identify it)
Palacio real & Cathedral (http://www.ociogo.com/images/madrid/000 ... madrid.jpg) west from Latina.
Atocha (now in center od Blue) move it to inner border of Cyan.
Airport (http://www.frajumar.com/2010/images/sto ... ipt4_1.jpg) west of Barajas

If you still need more buildings just ask, but most of the representatives are in centro, and would be cramed.

Finally, if you dislike the crest, try to keep the bear and the tree as that is the symbol of the city (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_gLuN8_wR6VY/T ... 0/oso1.jpg) or google "oso y madroño" for further images.
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [3/9] V6 Pg 1/3

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:09 am

Thanks for the pictures, will add those buildings in.. Will see about getting them in. Also, thanks for the names. Will go by you and send everyone after you forever more if they say they are wrong. ;)

Keep trying with the crest and have even taken the bull and tree out for a different placement. Nothing to now works but I will keep trying and it will go in. It might take time so please give it such.

The one you could not recognise is this statue, so please let me know where it goes.
Image


Where is this statue, it might go on the map as the buildings if I can drawn it right.
Image
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [3/9] V6 Pg 1/3

Postby snelliugmj on Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:06 am

The first picture in in Retiro Park. My suggestion is to either just get the monument (without the lake) or get the lake rectangular. I like more the first option... Place it in the middle of Retiro.

The second picture is Puerta del Sol, which is the "city center", therefore should go in Centro

On the names, There is no optimal solution as you have reshaped the "distritos" a bit, however they are somehow better with my proposal.. Or at least that's my opinion.

BTW, as you like pictures, here is one more:
Plaza de España: http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9 ... TPqv9Q&t=1) This one would go either south of centro or if it's too crowded in Arganzuela by the river.

There are other wonderful places, like "Plaza Mayor", "Neptuno", "Museo del Prado" but as I said all go to Centro, and I don't see enough space. If you want I can share some pictures and place them...
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [3/9] V6 Pg 1/3

Postby snelliugmj on Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:10 am

To help you better understand what I meant with the rectacular shape of the lake... http://pictures2.todocoleccion.net/tc/2 ... 821750.jpg
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [3/9] V6 Pg 1/3

Postby koontz1973 on Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:45 am

Bloody hell snelliugmj, still trying to draw and fit ion the last lot. ;) Thanks for the info and will make sure things are changed or moved to the way you have guided me. Lets leave the photos for now as there is more than enough for the next draft. I know you have posted the territ name changes and expect them on the next draft. Should be this weekend. 8-[
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [7/9] V6 Pg 1/3

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:25 am

Next one. Territ names as suggested by snelliugmj.
Moved buildings as directed, removed the water from the statue and added some of the suggested buildings. Some are not in the correct position as directed like the two sloping buildings. The colours match the roads too much and blended in so have moved them to behinf the buildings in the correct territ. Now at the bottom, not the top.
Click image to enlarge.
image

These buildings added.
Image
Image
Image
Image

Do not think any more can be added as the small one will not show the same detail as the large version. But if a building is unique enough then why not add it.
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [7/9] V7 Pg 1/3

Postby isaiah40 on Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:07 pm

I believe this can be stickied for now!!
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [7/9] V7 Pg 1/3

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:36 am

Thanks isaiah.
Moved territ names and glows.
Made all colours colour blind friendly now.
Click image to enlarge.
image
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [10/9] V9 Pg 1/3

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:57 pm

Added Bull and tree (symbol of the city) bottom right and removed the guitar.
Click image to enlarge.
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [10/9] V9 Pg 1/3

Postby isaiah40 on Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:09 pm

It's time!!
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [10/9] V9 Pg 1/3 Game play time.

Postby koontz1973 on Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:13 pm

Thanks isaiah.
Game play time then. This is what I came up with early on in the ideas and isaiah40 also gave me the final concept for it as well.

    Standard 1 for 3 reinforcements.
    8 coded starting positions with a max of 1 given out. All will have an underlying neutral of 2. This will guarantee all players will not get a bonus drop ever.
show: map with neutral placements

16 territs start as random drop with the other 8 being deployed at one per person.
    2 player games - 6 territs
    3 player games - 6territs
    4 player games - 5 territs
    5 player games - 4 territs
    6 player games - 3 territs
    7 player games - 3 territs
    8 player games - 3 territs
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [10/9] V9 Pg 1/3 Is gameplay good?

Postby koontz1973 on Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:50 am

Forgive the double post but is there nothing more to be done for game play on this one? Can we move this one up a bit?
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [10/9] V9 Pg 1/3 Is gameplay good?

Postby iancanton on Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:25 pm

i have to say that i'm a bit disappointed with this one, koontz. i like the artwork a lot, with the buildings forming impassables and the citizens dotted around the map providing some life. however, the theme, that of amorphous administrative districts of the city, is only marginally more interesting than the london boroughs map that we have.

how feasible is it to keep the look of the map, but zoom in a bit, so that many more of the major landmarks become visible (and perhaps playable)? i'm talking about a map in the style of copenhagen sightseeing, but simpler and not necessarily to scale, with the boundaries being the bernabeu stadium in the north, the ventas bullring in the east, the zoo in the west and atocha station in the south.

ian. :)
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [10/9] V9 Pg 1/3 Is gameplay good?

Postby koontz1973 on Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:21 pm

ian, your opinion is noted, and I agree that it is similar to a lot of maps we have that are small. That is the thing, small maps are not interesting. They never have been and never will. This is the reason I hate copies and have tried to always do things that are different from a previous map of mine. But I really like the idea of a map that is zoomed in a lot. Let me have a play with it today and see if I can get some of the major buildings to really stand up without becoming obstructive.


How about we give the map a winning condition like Copenhagen then. Again like that map (this is starting to sound a lot like this map is a copy of others so lets make it a copy of different ones). :lol:

How about a good Samaritan theme then. I just change it from buildings to people. There are 12 people on the map, hold any 7 to win. A bit lame and not very interesting, and again, it has been done at least 10 times before. :(


Moved the buildings are impassable up to go with the rules at the top.
Shrunk the text a tad so everything fits.
Brought the people back as the last two versions they where missing.
Added the wining condition to the bottom.
Click image to enlarge.
image
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [10/9] V9 Pg 1/3 Is gameplay good?

Postby nolefan5311 on Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:10 am

I don't like the objective koontz...I'd remove it. I can't really even tell which people I would need to hold.
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [10/9] V9 Pg 1/3 Is gameplay good?

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:41 am

nolefan5311 wrote:I don't like the objective koontz...I'd remove it. I can't really even tell which people I would need to hold.

Yep, I do not like it either. I have spent the last few hours trying different combos for the buildings but cannot get anything that looks even half way decent. The buildings need to be a lot bigger to fit army numbers and names on so they just look out of scale. Putting them into postcards at the side destroys the overall look as well. Zooming in to the map seems to work the best but destroys the overall feel.There are a lot of things in the centre that can go over the map and then the territs become street names, but then you need to have a combo of street names and objective names. Looks wrong and feels wrong. Buildings placed in the middle of the territs for the WC confuses there purpose. Sorry ian but if you and nole both do not like the objective on the map now, I will remove it and keep it as it was. A very simple map with simple gameplay. I know it is nothing special and game play wise I am embarrassed to have my name on it, but graphically I think now it is more than a breath of fresh air. Please forgive me but can I have it as is now (with or without the WC). I promise to make more complicated maps in future, Escape is pretty complicated ;) and considering that this is my first map that is completely normal, it is not that bad.
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [10/9] V9 Pg 1/3 Is gameplay good?

Postby iancanton on Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:27 pm

koontz1973 wrote:Sorry ian but if you and nole both do not like the objective on the map now, I will remove it and keep it as it was. A very simple map with simple gameplay. I know it is nothing special and game play wise I am embarrassed to have my name on it, but graphically I think now it is more than a breath of fresh air.

no need to be embarrassed at all! this is a small map of 24 regions, so doodle-style gameplay is perfectly suitable. i actually thought that u were pulling my leg when u mentioned the objective in the latest version.

it's my fault for not expressing myself clearly and i apologise for any time wasted: i had in mind a map with regions like those in copenhagen sightseeing, in other words regions representing landmarks or well-known neighbourhoods instead of the bland administrative districts that u have, but u wrongly assumed i didn't like the gameplay instead (understandable because my main remit is to discuss gameplay).

my vision is a zoomed-in version made up of buildings, squares, markets, museums and other public areas (though not streets, which are the wrong shape), losing all of the outer districts and the boring administrative names. this type of map does not work well if u draw it to scale because many of the interesting places are clustered together, with big gaps to one or two others, so u have to draw it out of scale, in the same way that the traditional london underground map is out of scale. troop counts actually on the buildings themselves will obscure the artwork, which isn't really what we want.

do try to keep the overall look of the map in some form. we have nothing that resembles it.

ian. :)
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [10/9] V9 Pg 1/3 Is gameplay good?

Postby ManBungalow on Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:20 pm

What is even going on in this map ?
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [10/9] V9 Pg 1/3 Is gameplay good?

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:21 pm

ManBungalow wrote:What is even going on in this map ?

What do you mean by that?

ian, I take it then you want the names changing then to Copenhagen style. Not districts but a general what is in that area feel. PMed the Madrid players that have helped me on this one to suggest some. Will get it done as soon as they respond as this is there city and they know what's what.

But is this something like what you are after? Something more cartoon like.
Click image to enlarge.
image


EDIT: reread your original post, with the moving of the 4 main buildings, zoo, stadium, bullring and station. Will get onto that now. But I think the names that are going to be changed I will keep in the style above. For any major building, it will get that name but for the rest I think a comic style of name would fit the map.
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [10/9] V9 Pg 1/3 Is gameplay good?

Postby iancanton on Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:23 pm

koontz1973 wrote:Not districts but a general what is in that area feel.

exactly!

koontz1973 wrote:PMed the Madrid players that have helped me on this one to suggest some. Will get it done as soon as they respond as this is there city and they know what's what.

i'm sure they'll tell us whether we're heading in the right direction!

ian. :)
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [10/9] V9 Pg 1/3 Is gameplay good?

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:16 am

Went into google maps and looked at photos of each district from what tourists think are worth photographing. Names changes have come from those. The district names where correct as instructed by players from Madrid so these places should also be correct.

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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [10/9] V9 Pg 1/3 Is gameplay good?

Postby iancanton on Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:09 am

the new names are much more in line with what i expect from a city map, rather than the london or hong kong maps that are good mainly if u have an interest in local government.

now the final step toward the theme that i outlined earlier is to focus on the centre, as given in the list below, by eliminating the outer ring of regions and expanding the remaining area to include the better-known places.
snelliugmj wrote:I hardly recognize any of the buildings that are there, In fact the city has several distinct atractions (check on google images for: Puerta del sol, puerta de alcalá, oso y madroño, plaza castilla, cibeles, neptuno, palacio real, plaza mayor, parque del retiro, museo del prado, atocha, Santiago bernabeu, torre picasso, conjunto 4 torres).


perhaps one way to effect this change is to start by renaming the regions as if u were covering only central madrid: palacio de pardo becomes plaza de castilla, barajas becomes ventas and so on; after this, draw suitable pictures for each region; after this is done, impassables and the river can be shifted to fit the new names and pictures (the position of the river is already wrong for the original map, so u'll have to change it anyway, since it ought to run to the west of plaza de espana).

ian. :)
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [22/9] V9 Pg 1/4 New Names. GP?

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:08 am

ian, I am doing the re draw now but I need to know, is the GP good for you and nole? Each of these buildings take time to draw so to cut back on the wasted time, is there any territ lines, crossings or anything else that needs to be moved or changed? If I know now, then I can incorporate it in.
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