[Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Proposed Changes (7/3/14)

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Re: Krazy Kingdoms [9/21] - New Map Graphics (phase 2)

Postby tkr4lf on Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:20 am

dolomite13 wrote:
tkr4lf wrote:Ok, actually, re-reading the Wizard description, it does say that the Maelstrom borders your favored territories, which means that it can attack them. Hmm, it's a little confusing the way it's worded, although the point did come across after a few times reading it. Maybe it can be worded better? It is a little confusing at first, at least for me it was.


Yep that needs a bit of revision to make it clearer. OOps on the seas/swamps I need to make the seas Sea 1, Sea 2 etc and leave the swamps S1 S2 etc... or come up with a new name for swamps or seas. Maybe Lakes or Oceans... hmmm...

Thanx for catching that.

=)

=D=

No problem.

Could also change swamps to marshes, sort of the same thing, but then you would have 2 M's, what with already having Mountains. I guess Seas would be better to be changed, possibly lakes would work well. Oceans sounds weird with them not looking like oceans, not big enough anyway. I would think just making them say Sea 1, etc. would be enough. Sea sounds about the best out of the 3 options...Lake works as well, but Sea seems better for what they appear to be.
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Re: Krazy Kingdoms [9/21] - New Map Graphics (phase 2)

Postby dolomite13 on Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:31 am

I played around with the background and started working on using icons instead of text for parts of the key. I was able to do 6 of the 11 specials in the right column. Much more work is needed but I think this is moving towards less text and that is a good thing.

=D=

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Re: Krazy Kingdoms [9/23] - Map Key Updates

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:18 am

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I think you have waited long enough. From a multi coloured start to this is a big leap. Lets hope this continues in the same vain and good luck with the blue boys.

koontz.
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Re: Krazy Kingdoms [9/23] - Map Key Updates

Postby dolomite13 on Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:16 pm

koontz1973 wrote:I think you have waited long enough. From a multi coloured start to this is a big leap. Lets hope this continues in the same vain and good luck with the blue boys. - koontz.


Woo Hoo ... I'm back in the main foundry ... hello again folks ;)

I am currently in the middle of changing out text for graphics ...

Fanatics needs a slight revamp so as not to reward you for your starting territory.

[F] = Favored Territory

So instead of

  • Each [F] = +2

Lets consider

  • 2 x [F] = +2
  • 3 x [F] = +5
  • 4 x [F] = +8

Thanx

=D=
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Re: Krazy Kingdoms [D] - Draft Stamp Recieved - (9/24)

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:41 pm

I'm starting to get a better sense of this concept now. Hopefully I'll be able to devote some time to give it a proper look over, but until then I like the direction it is going so far.


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Re: Krazy Kingdoms [D] - Key Updated - (9/25)

Postby dolomite13 on Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:13 am

Updated the key a lot. It is still in a state of flux with graphics not yet finalized and nothing perfectly lined up. But this should give us an idea if the map is readable and understandable just using symbology and as few words as possible.

=D=

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Re: Krazy Kingdoms [D] - Key Updated - (9/25)

Postby dolomite13 on Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:32 pm

I am taking a couple day break from working on this to concentrate on personal stuff but will be back in a few days to pick up where I left off. I am looking forward to the feedback.

=D=
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Re: Krazy Kingdoms [D] - Key Updated - (9/25)

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:36 pm

dolomite, sorry, been a tad busy but can you clear this up for me. On he right, you have the miners symbol as 1=+2 and 3=+2. Which is it? Some of the others are the same way. Cultists, +2 for the nuclear symbol, is this for each or all of them.

I like the idea with the chasms being adjacent but this would only be used for reinforcements, does it seem a good way to use space. Maybe another simple bonus for holding both sides would make taking these territs more feasible.

Will have another look later for you in the week.
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Re: Krazy Kingdoms [D] - Key Updated - (9/25)

Postby nolefan5311 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:11 pm

I think the land portion of the map looks good as far as bonuses go, though you might want to remove the "+1 for each territory that borders you favored territory" and "+1 for every 3 territories that are neither favored nor adjacent". I don't know that this adds anything particular special to the map, or if its even possible with the current XML (writing a continent bonus that is solely dependent on your starting territory).

As far as the bonuses on the right side, I will need to take a much closer look at them.

Also, a couple minor things...for 2 players games I think you should make it a maximum of 2 starting territories per player instead of the 4 you have now. Makes for more interesting games. And for the chasms, you might want to make those stand out a little more...they're not very noticeable.
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Re: Krazy Kingdoms [D] - Key Updated - (9/25)

Postby dolomite13 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:20 pm

koontz1973 wrote:On he right, you have the miners symbol as 1=+2 and 3=+2. Which is it? Some of the others are the same way. Cultists, +2 for the nuclear symbol, is this for each or all of them.

I like the idea with the chasms being adjacent but this would only be used for reinforcements, does it seem a good way to use space. Maybe another simple bonus for holding both sides would make taking these territs more feasible.


The miner get +2 for each mine and whne they have all 3 mines they get an additional +2

1 Mine = +2
2 Mines = +4
3 Mines = +8

The same with the undead. However dwellers get less as the territories with caverns are adjacent. Cultists get +2 per radiation symbol but no extra at all 3 as they have other abilities as well.

The reason for the chasm's is to make the distance you need to go to get to another players start position one territory greater. But for overall balance of the number of territories adjacent to your favored territories for bonus purposes it was necessary to give you a way for that territory across the chasm to be adjacent. That way the territory is valuable to both you and your closest neighbor. Otherwise with no symbol and no way to make it worth anything but part of the standard +1 for 3 bonus of non adjacent territories players may not feel all that compelled to attack it out of fear of reprisal by their neighbor.

nolefan5311 wrote:I think the land portion of the map looks good as far as bonuses go, though you might want to remove the "+1 for each territory that borders you favored territory" and "+1 for every 3 territories that are neither favored nor adjacent". I don't know that this adds anything particular special to the map, or if its even possible with the current XML (writing a continent bonus that is solely dependent on your starting territory).

As far as the bonuses on the right side, I will need to take a much closer look at them.

Also, a couple minor things...for 2 players games I think you should make it a maximum of 2 starting territories per player instead of the 4 you have now. Makes for more interesting games. And for the chasms, you might want to make those stand out a little more...they're not very noticeable.


The "personal continent" concept revolves around your favored territories and the territories adjacent to them Territories that are neither fall into that pool of "others" that make up the +1 for 3. I did because on a small map I wanted their to be a lot of troops possible to make territories change hands alot and controlling the racial bonuses difficult.

The personal continent bonus structure is as follows.

+1 for each favored territory. (+4 bonus)
+4 bonus if you control all four of your favored territories. (+4 bonus)
+1 for each land territory that is adjacent to a favored territory that you control. Territories you control on the opposite sides of a chasm are adjacent. (+13 bonus)
+1 for every 3 land territories that are neither favored nor border a favored territory that you control. (15 territories = +5 bonus)

If you control every territory you would have a bonus of 26 troops.

Image

And yes it's possible to write a "continent" to have a required element for the bonus. Each kingdom would have several continents for bonus purposes. I think it would look something like this.

No Kingdom = +1 for every 3 of any land territories (overridden if you have any of the following)
Kingdom 1 + Favored 1 + Border 1 = + 1
Kingdom 1 + Favored 1 + Border 2 = + 1
Kingdom 1 + Favored 2 + Border 1 = + 1
Kingdom 1 + Favored 2 + Border 2 = + 1
Kingdom 1 + Favored 2 + Border 3 = + 1
Kingdom 1 + Favored 3 + Border 1 = + 1
Kingdom 1 + Favored 3 + Border 2 = + 1
Kingdom 1 + Favored 3 + Border 3 = + 1
Kingdom 1 + Favored 3 + Border 4 = + 1
Kingdom 1 + Favored 4 + Border 1 = + 1
Kingdom 1 + Favored 4 + Border 2 = + 1
Kingdom 1 + Favored 4 + Border 3 = + 1
Kingdom 1 + Favored 4 + Border 4 = + 1
Kingdom 1 + Favored 1 + favored 2 + favored 3 + favored 4 = + 4 (favored synergy bonus)
Kingdom 1 + Non Border/Non Favored 1-3 = +1
Kingdom 1 + Non Border/Non Favored 4-6 = +2 (overrides previous)
Kingdom 1 + Non Border/Non Favored 7-9 = +3 (overrides previous)
Kingdom 1 + Non Border/Non Favored 10-12 = +4 (overrides previous)
Kingdom 1 + Non Border/Non Favored 13-15 = +5 (overrides previous)

* The tricky part is what about holding a territory that is adjacent to a favored but not holding the favored... should that count in the +1 for 3 or not.

It is possible that the bonus should be as follows...

+1 for every 3 land territories (32/3 +11)
+2 for each controlled favored land territory (+4)
+1 for each land territory that borders a controlled favored territory (+13)

Which yield almost the same number (28 instead of 26) and grants some bonus even if someone destroys your kingdom via the forbidden lands.


As far as the starts in a 2 player game, well that is set by the game itself I cant help how it splits the drops based on the formula for start territories and neutral starts. Unless there is a setting in the xml that I don't know about to limit the number of starting positions.

In a 2 player game
- both players would have 4 Kingdoms (Races) and 4 Adjacent Favored Territories each set to 3 armies. (8/2) - Player Start Positions
- both players would have 3 Creature Types each set to 1 armies with 5 remainder set to neutral . (11/3) - Random Drops

I've been working with the graphics a bit and want to make the map slightly bigger if I can and the key slightly smaller I will see if I can get a new map out this week.

=D=
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Re: Krazy Kingdoms [D] - Key Updated - (9/25)

Postby nolefan5311 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:37 pm

dolomite13 wrote:
nolefan5311 wrote:I think the land portion of the map looks good as far as bonuses go, though you might want to remove the "+1 for each territory that borders you favored territory" and "+1 for every 3 territories that are neither favored nor adjacent". I don't know that this adds anything particular special to the map, or if its even possible with the current XML (writing a continent bonus that is solely dependent on your starting territory).

As far as the bonuses on the right side, I will need to take a much closer look at them.

Also, a couple minor things...for 2 players games I think you should make it a maximum of 2 starting territories per player instead of the 4 you have now. Makes for more interesting games. And for the chasms, you might want to make those stand out a little more...they're not very noticeable.


The "personal continent" concept revolves around your favored territories and the territories adjacent to them Territories that are neither fall into that pool of "others" that make up the +1 for 3. I did because on a small map I wanted their to be a lot of troops possible to make territories change hands alot and controlling the racial bonuses difficult.

The personal continent bonus structure is as follows.

+1 for each favored territory. (+4 bonus)
+4 bonus if you control all four of your favored territories. (+4 bonus)
+1 for each land territory that is adjacent to a favored territory that you control. Territories you control on the opposite sides of a chasm are adjacent. (+13 bonus)
+1 for every 3 land territories that are neither favored nor border a favored territory that you control. (15 territories = +5 bonus)

If you control every territory you would have a bonus of 26 troops.

Image

And yes it's possible to write a "continent" to have a required element for the bonus. Each kingdom would have several continents for bonus purposes. I think it would look something like this.

No Kingdom = +1 for every 3 of any land territories (overridden if you have any of the following)
Kingdom 1 + Favored 1 + Border 1 = + 1
Kingdom 1 + Favored 1 + Border 2 = + 1
Kingdom 1 + Favored 2 + Border 1 = + 1
Kingdom 1 + Favored 2 + Border 2 = + 1
Kingdom 1 + Favored 2 + Border 3 = + 1
Kingdom 1 + Favored 3 + Border 1 = + 1
Kingdom 1 + Favored 3 + Border 2 = + 1
Kingdom 1 + Favored 3 + Border 3 = + 1
Kingdom 1 + Favored 3 + Border 4 = + 1
Kingdom 1 + Favored 4 + Border 1 = + 1
Kingdom 1 + Favored 4 + Border 2 = + 1
Kingdom 1 + Favored 4 + Border 3 = + 1
Kingdom 1 + Favored 4 + Border 4 = + 1
Kingdom 1 + Favored 1 + favored 2 + favored 3 + favored 4 = + 4 (favored synergy bonus)
Kingdom 1 + Non Border/Non Favored 1-3 = +1
Kingdom 1 + Non Border/Non Favored 4-6 = +2 (overrides previous)
Kingdom 1 + Non Border/Non Favored 7-9 = +3 (overrides previous)
Kingdom 1 + Non Border/Non Favored 10-12 = +4 (overrides previous)
Kingdom 1 + Non Border/Non Favored 13-15 = +5 (overrides previous)

* The tricky part is what about holding a territory that is adjacent to a favored but not holding the favored... should that count in the +1 for 3 or not.

It is possible that the bonus should be as follows... which yield almost the same number and grants a bonus even if someone destroys your kingdom via the forbidden lands.

+1 for every 3 land territories (32/3 - 11)
+2 for each controlled favored land territory (+4)
+1 for each land territory that borders a controlled favored territory (+13)

This would yield 26 bonus possible.


I am aware that It is possible to have a required element for a bonus, but basing that off of a starting position is where my inquiry is directed. I'd like to see what you come up with to see if it works. I do like this suggested bonus structure better as it rewards holding a favored land more than a land bordering a favored territory, and think you could even opt to get rid of the +1 for each land territory that borders a controlled favored territory.

dolomite13 wrote:As far as the starts in a 2 player game, well that is set by the game itself I cant help how it splits the drops based on the formula for start territories and neutral starts. Unless there is a setting in the xml that I don't know about to limit the number of starting positions.

In a 2 player game
- both players would have 4 Kingdoms (Races) and 4 Adjacent Favored Territories each set to 3 armies. (8/2) - Player Start Positions
- both players would have 3 Creature Types each set to 1 armies with 5 remainder set to neutral . (11/3) - Random Drops
=D=


This is possible by coding a max in the starting positions. Check the Conquer Rome xml where the barbarian's are written in. With 8 potential starting territories, it only affects 2 player games.

And you plan on having adjacent favored territories start as n3's as well?
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Re: Krazy Kingdoms [D] - Key Updated - (9/25)

Postby dolomite13 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:10 pm

I am aware that It is possible to have a required element for a bonus, but basing that off of a starting position is where my inquiry is directed. I'd like to see what you come up with to see if it works. I do like this suggested bonus structure better as it rewards holding a favored land more than a land bordering a favored territory, and think you could even opt to get rid of the +1 for each land territory that borders a controlled favored territory.


I really want to stay with the bordering the controlled favored territory part as I went through a lot of effort to make sure that all of your favored territories were spaced in a way so that no two shared a common bordering territory and so that there was a single "continent" comprised of your favored and bordering territories in that "personal continent" concept. We could consider a smaller bonus so that those bordering territories are important but slightly less so.

+1 for every 3 territories. (32/3 +11)
+1 for every controlled favored territory (+4)
+1 for every 2 territories that border controlled favored territories. (+6)

Max bonus for territory = 21

Btw the player starting bonus would probably be

+1 (1-3 territories)
+1 for favored territory
Autodeploy 1 on kingdom

Unless a minimum +3 were added like in the basic CC game.

This is possible by coding a max in the starting positions. Check the Conquer Rome xml where the barbarian's are written in. With 8 potential starting territories, it only affects 2 player games.


Good to know I like that better than the way I have it.

And you plan on having adjacent favored territories start as n3's as well?


I'm open to start values.

Because the territory that borders your starting territory has no special ability symbol I was thinking that the starts would be as follows.

n = neutral / p=player

- Kingdoms (1p)
- Favored bordering the kingdom (3p)
- Special Ability (1p or 1n)
- Forbidden Lands (20n)
- Non start territories (3n)
- Seas (3n)
- Underworld (6n)
- Bomb (10n)
- Maelstrom (6n)
- Horde (6n)

I will do a proposed starting forces map with the next graphical update

=D=
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Re: Krazy Kingdoms [D] - Key Updated - (9/25)

Postby dolomite13 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:18 pm

So your eliminated if you don't control any land territories.

What would the implication be for assassin games if the forbidden lands could not bombard kingdoms or special abilities and instead could bombard all land/sea and the bomb, maelstrom, horde and underworld? would being eliminated from the main land mass eliminate you?

This way you would always have a kingdom for the continent bonuses and your race ability would remain in tact to the end of the game. And take out that strange element of all of a sudden my undead fishermen can no longer fish or now I have generic fishermen.

Probably drop the forbidden lands to 15 if this were the case.

Thoughts?

=D=
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Re: Krazy Kingdoms [D] - Key Updated - (9/25)

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:05 pm

dolomite, as for the symbols, say +2 each - and with the 3 symbols +8. This will remove all confusion for players and make it easier to understand.
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Re: Krazy Kingdoms [D] - Key Updated - (9/25)

Postby dolomite13 on Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:30 pm

koontz1973 wrote:dolomite, as for the symbols, say +2 each - and with the 3 symbols +8. This will remove all confusion for players and make it easier to understand.


I do think I agree so I will make that change =)

[symbol] +2 each [symbol][symbol][symbol]+8

=D=
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Re: Krazy Kingdoms [D] - Key Updated - (9/25)

Postby nolefan5311 on Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:07 pm

I'm going to go ahead and sticky this for the gameplay stamp. It will be here for about a week to make sure people have ample time to comment, but I poured over this map for the past couple days, and nothing blatant really stands out. Bonus structure, gameplay mechanics, etc., all look good and balanced.
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Re: Krazy Kingdoms [D] - Key Updated - (9/25)

Postby Robespierre__ on Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:38 pm

nolefan5311 wrote:It will be here for about a week to make sure people have ample time to comment, but I poured over this map for the past couple days, and nothing blatant really stands out. Bonus structure, gameplay mechanics, etc., all look good and balanced.


Would love to know what you poured on the map ... am thinking a beverage of some alcoholic content?? :p
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Re: Krazy Kingdoms [D] - Key Updated - (9/25)

Postby nolefan5311 on Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:14 pm

Robespierre__ wrote:
nolefan5311 wrote:It will be here for about a week to make sure people have ample time to comment, but I poured over this map for the past couple days, and nothing blatant really stands out. Bonus structure, gameplay mechanics, etc., all look good and balanced.


Would love to know what you poured on the map ... am thinking a beverage of some alcoholic content?? :p


Ha! Typing too fast I guess (or all that "pouring" fried me brain!)
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Re: Krazy Kingdoms [D] - Key Updated - (9/25)

Postby macbone on Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:14 pm

This is an amazing map, Dolomite. At first glance, I'm kinda reminded of the game Small World with all the varied races and bonuses. I'm looking forward to taking this one for a test drive.
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Re: Krazy Kingdoms [D] - Key Updated - (9/25)

Postby Dukasaur on Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:09 am

I liked it better when the colours were brighter. It's harder now to see the difference between swamp and tundra, for example.
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Re: Krazy Kingdoms [D] - Key Updated - (9/25)

Postby nolefan5311 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:16 pm

We can go ahead and get this one stamped and moved on up to graphics. Sorry for the delay, I've been out of town for a couple days. Congrats dolomite, look forward to seeing this one progress up.

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Re: Krazy Kingdoms [D] - Key Updated - (9/25)

Postby isaiah40 on Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:58 pm

Sorry dolomite, I forgot about this one. I will take a closer look at it in a couple of days. Also please change the title of the thread to read as follows: Krazy Kingdoms v.X [25 Nov 2012] pg.X This will help to know when the last update was done and what page it is on. Thank you.
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Re: Krazy Kingdoms [D] - Key Updated - (9/25)

Postby nolefan5311 on Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:06 pm

As it appears development on this map has stalled (see below), this map is being Moved to the Recycling Bin for the time being. If the mapmaker wants to continue with the map, then one of the Foundry Moderators will be able to help put the thread back into the Foundry system, after an update has been made. :)

It's been almost 2 months since you've posted in the thread dolemite, so once you've posted an update, we'll get this moved back for you.
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Re: [Vacation valid until June 2013] Krazy Kingdoms [D]

Postby dolomite13 on Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:56 pm

I have been sooo busy ... update coming this weekend

=D=
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Re: [Vacation valid until June 2013] Krazy Kingdoms [D]

Postby koontz1973 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:59 pm

Bloody long weekends you have dolomite.
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