[Abandoned] Field of Gettysburg v04p4nov22

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Re: Field of Gettysburg [D] v03p3sep17

Postby nolefan5311 on Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:59 pm

First things first, and I know I haven't posted in this thread much, but this is a very nice looking map.

Ok, first, I think you need to remove "The Gettysburg Campaign" from it's current spot, make it stand out on it's own. It's supposed to be an introduction to the map, but right now it sort of gets muddled in with all of the gameplay instructions.

I don't like that Lee can only be attacked by 3 regions (Ewell, Hill, and Longstreet) while Meade can be attacked by 7 regions. Even more unbalanced is that those 3 regions are then protected on both sides. It seems Meade is significantly more vulnerable to the rest of the map, and thus his bonus easier to break.

I think the legend needs quite a bit more sorting as well. For instance, break each of the Map Legend components out separately and indicate what they can do in their own little box, as opposed to how it currently is.

What are the dimensions of the map? I think it could stand to be enlarged a little bit so that things aren't so congested and that your legend markers (Troops, Battlefield, Cavalry, etc) can be a little easier to distinguish.

I'll admit I wanted to get something posted tonight because I haven't posted anything in a while, so that's a start. I will try to look closer at things soon, see if things make more sense when I'm not tired :D.
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Re: Field of Gettysburg [D] v03p3sep17

Postby trinicardinal on Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:13 am

nolefan5311 wrote:First things first, and I know I haven't posted in this thread much, but this is a very nice looking map.

Ok, first, I think you need to remove "The Gettysburg Campaign" from it's current spot, make it stand out on it's own. It's supposed to be an introduction to the map, but right now it sort of gets muddled in with all of the gameplay instructions.

I don't like that Lee can only be attacked by 3 regions (Ewell, Hill, and Longstreet) while Meade can be attacked by 7 regions. Even more unbalanced is that those 3 regions are then protected on both sides. It seems Meade is significantly more vulnerable to the rest of the map, and thus his bonus easier to break.

I think the legend needs quite a bit more sorting as well. For instance, break each of the Map Legend components out separately and indicate what they can do in their own little box, as opposed to how it currently is.

What are the dimensions of the map? I think it could stand to be enlarged a little bit so that things aren't so congested and that your legend markers (Troops, Battlefield, Cavalry, etc) can be a little easier to distinguish.

I'll admit I wanted to get something posted tonight because I haven't posted anything in a while, so that's a start. I will try to look closer at things soon, see if things make more sense when I'm not tired :D.


An extremely nice looking map at this stage. I understand and agree with most of what nolefan is saying but I would suggest that the introduction to the map remain where it is... those who are interested in it will still read it and those who aren't will overlook it anyway and I honestly like the look of where it is
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10:42:43 ‹Sackett58› fine, I'll take my panties elsewhere
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Re: Field of Gettysburg [D] v03p3sep17

Postby pamoa on Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:16 am

nolefan5311 wrote:... this is a very nice looking map.
trinicardinal wrote:An extremely nice looking map at this stage.
thanks for encouragement
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Re: Field of Gettysburg [D] v03p3sep17

Postby pamoa on Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:42 am

thanks for your patience

nolefan5311 wrote:Ok, first, I think you need to remove "The Gettysburg Campaign" from it's current spot, make it stand out on it's own. It's supposed to be an introduction to the map, but right now it sort of gets muddled in with all of the gameplay instructions.
I think the legend needs quite a bit more sorting as well. For instance, break each of the Map Legend components out separately and indicate what they can do in their own little box, as opposed to how it currently is.
trinicardinal wrote:I understand and agree with most of what nolefan is saying but I would suggest that the introduction to the map remain where it is... those who are interested in it will still read it and those who aren't will overlook it anyway and I honestly like the look of where it is
for the moment I'll keep everything in a single box
but I keep in mind your suggestion about moving out of it the historical part
as it is not a gameplay legend


nolefan5311 wrote:What are the dimensions of the map? I think it could stand to be enlarged a little bit so that things aren't so congested and that your legend markers (Troops, Battlefield, Cavalry, etc) can be a little easier to distinguish.
as I said in first post this is the small map ( width 630 pixels - height 600 pixels )
I always work on the small map first to be sure all fits in
in this case the lower left corner was tricky to adjust


nolefan5311 wrote:I don't like that Lee can only be attacked by 3 regions (Ewell, Hill, and Longstreet) while Meade can be attacked by 7 regions. Even more unbalanced is that those 3 regions are then protected on both sides. It seems Meade is significantly more vulnerable to the rest of the map, and thus his bonus easier to break.
corps and army commanders aren't part of any bonus
they just trigger the attack through battlefields
the difference is in command structure on both side
for the Union only Meade can trigger attack thus is attackable by all is generals
instead for the Confederates you have two level of command
corps commanders can trigger attack only for generals under his command
Lee can do it for all the army
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Re: Field of Gettysburg [D] v03p3sep17

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:31 pm

pamoa, from me a couple of things. In assault conditions can you swap the army and corps commanders around. Army commander seems to be higher in rank so should come first. Secondly, do you have room to increase the text size at all. I am finding it slightly hard to read at the moment (not imposable) but with the conditional border, it might be nice to see if the text itself can become easier to read. It might be the italics.
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Re: Field of Gettysburg [D] v03p3sep17

Postby pamoa on Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:47 am

koontz1973 wrote:pamoa, from me a couple of things. In assault conditions can you swap the army and corps commanders around. Army commander seems to be higher in rank so should come first.
what if changed as below
Assault Conditions (actual)
to attack through a Battlefield
you must hold your respective
Corps or Army Commander,
i.e. to attack Rock Creek
Johnson troops must hold
Ewell (Corps) or Lee (Army)
Assault Conditions (proposed)
only Army Commander can order
an attack through a Battlefield
as Corps Com. in their sector,
i.e. to attack Rock Creek
with Johnson troops you must
hold Ewell (Corps) or Lee (Army)


koontz1973 wrote:Secondly, do you have room to increase the text size at all. I am finding it slightly hard to read at the moment (not imposable) but with the conditional border, it might be nice to see if the text itself can become easier to read. It might be the italics.
Again this is the small map
and strangely enough italic is more readable than normal font
here is an enlarged version as large map preview
Click image to enlarge.
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Re: Field of Gettysburg [D] v03p3sep17

Postby koontz1973 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:29 am

Again this is the small map

I only use the small map so having to click over to the large will become annoying. As I said, it is not imposable for me to read, just differcult. Can I please ask to see if you can find a solution to see if something better can be found. O:)

Assault Conditions (actual)
to attack through a Battlefield
you must hold your respective
Corps or Army Commander,
i.e. to attack Rock Creek
Johnson troops must hold
Ewell (Corps) or Lee (Army)

I like the original but only change this.
a Battlefield
you must hold your respective
Army or Corps Commander,
As I said, Army seems to have a higher rank so it seems better suited to have them first.
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Field of Gettysburg v04p4nov22

Postby pamoa on Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:27 am

v04 small new features : Cavalry range of 2 instead of bonus, Victory condition, added Long Lane Battlefield, removed Devil's Den - Big Round Top attack route
those gameplay modifications are made to give more importance to Battlefields and Assault Condition
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Re: Field of Gettysburg [D] v04p4nov22

Postby Oneyed on Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:18 pm

nice progres, pamoa.
to attack Rock Creek must player holds Slocum troops and Meade or any Union general?

have Union generals also bombardment ability? because acording legend only Army or Corps commanders have this ability. you have only Corp commanders in Union army, if I am not wrong yes?

what about to do Gettysburg as battlefield too? it was the goal of battle - Gettysburg was important crossroad.

cavalry could have another ability as attack range of two. Lee sent his cavalry to atack Unionist from behind, maybe add to cavalry alike ability...

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Re: Field of Gettysburg [D] v04p4nov22

Postby pamoa on Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:54 pm

Oneyed wrote:to attack Rock Creek must player holds Slocum Troops and Meade or any Union General?
to attack Rock Creek from Slocum Troops one must hold Meade (Army Commander)

Oneyed wrote:have Union Generals also bombardment ability? because according legend only Army or Corps Commanders have this ability. you have only Corps Commanders in Union Army, if I am not wrong yes?
your right only Corps and Army Commanders can bombard each-other
mainly to retard an attack through a Battlefield as they are necessary to do so
and Corps Commander are only in Confederate Army
as in reality Confederate Corps were larger and more autonomous
than Union Corps (represented by Union Generals on this map)
which were smaller and under "straight" control of Meade


Oneyed wrote:what about to do Gettysburg as battlefield too? it was the goal of battle - Gettysburg was important crossroad.
no real fight occur IN Gettysburg
yes it was the strategic objective
but to control it each must first wipe the opposing army
at that time no army would actually fight INSIDE a town
so first day they fight north-west of it
second and third south of it


Oneyed wrote:cavalry could have another ability as attack range of two. Lee sent his cavalry to attack Unionist from behind, maybe add to cavalry alike ability...
yes Lee did so and Meade anticipated it by sending his cavalry at the same position east of the main battlefield
and giving a range of two gives that kind of back door effect
but maybe you have a smart idea here
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Re: Field of Gettysburg [D] v04p4nov22

Postby Oneyed on Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:11 pm

pamoa wrote:to attack Rock Creek from Slocum Troops one must hold Meade (Army Commander)


then the map is very unbalanced. the Union side has big disadvantage - they can move take battlefields only if holds Meade. the Confederate have 4 ways (Lee + 3 Corps commanders)...
pamoa wrote:your right only Corps and Army Commanders can bombard each-other


then again Unionist can bombard only from Meade...
pamoa wrote:and Corps Commander are only in Confederate Army
as in reality Confederate Corps were larger and more autonomous
than Union Corps (represented by Union Generals on this map)
which were smaller and under "straight" control of Meade


the autonomity of generals is question. some Union generals did not heart Meade. and the Union generals on your map were Corp commanders. so I think becasue this also because gameplay make some of them important as Confederate Corps commanders, I think.
pamoa wrote:yes Lee did so and Meade anticipated it by sending his cavalry at the same position east of the main battlefield
and giving a range of two gives that kind of back door effect
but maybe you have a smart idea here


maybe if player holds union cavalry + Meade he can attack Confederate Johnson, Ewell, Rodes/Early (so confederate units on connected "doubled" route) and confederate cavalry + Lee can attack Union Sedgwick baltimore pike, Taneytown road, Sedgwick big round top.

or have both cavalries and Lee to attack any Unionist on "doubled" route and both cavalries + Meade to attack any Confederate on "doubled" route.

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Re: Field of Gettysburg [D] v04p4nov22

Postby pamoa on Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:34 pm

Oneyed wrote:then the map is very unbalanced
the Union side has big disadvantage - they can move take battlefields only if holds Meade
the Confederate have 4 ways (Lee + 3 Corps commanders)...
...
then again Unionist can bombard only from Meade
pamoa wrote:and Corps Commander are only in Confederate Army
as in reality Confederate Corps were larger and more autonomous
than Union Corps (represented by Union Generals on this map)
which were smaller and under "straight" control of Meade
Oneyed wrote:the autonomy of generals is question
some Union generals did not heart Meade
and the Union generals on your map were Corps commanders
so I think because this also because gameplay make some of them important as Confederate Corps commanders, I think.
well the gameplay is not symetrical
but first remember how conditional border works
one doesn't have to hold the "key" at the beginning of the round
it can be taken during one's round and (as in losing condition) immediately the attack route is open
so in our case the advantage is for Meade which trigger six attack routes
instead if you take Ewell you only have two attack route open
and then either you take Lee to open all the Confederate attack routes
or another Corps Commander to open two other routes
but the balance came that as you have to put more troops to open those doors
it is more expensive for Meade to bombard them all


pamoa wrote:yes Lee did so and Meade anticipated it by sending his cavalry at the same position east of the main battlefield
and giving a range of two gives that kind of back door effect
but maybe you have a smart idea here
Oneyed wrote:maybe if player holds union cavalry + Meade he can attack Confederate Johnson, Ewell, Rodes/Early (so confederate units on connected "doubled" route)
and Confederate Cavalry + Lee can attack Union Sedgwick Baltimore Pike, Taneytown Road, Sedgwick Big Round Top.

or have both cavalries and Lee to attack any Unionist on "doubled" route and both cavalries + Meade to attack any Confederate on "doubled" route.
the double route has no real meaning for me
but what you describe can be achieved with a range of 3
the problem is it is a too big advantage for the first goer
you take cavalry then the 2 territory behind
and next turn your opponent has to take 3 positions to come back
with 2 it is more balanced

your second idea of making cavalry attack a conditional border linked to Army Commander may be nice
it would be without Army Commander you have a normal direct attack range
but if you hold your Army Commander you get an attack range of 2 or 3
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Re: Field of Gettysburg [D] v04p4nov22

Postby Oneyed on Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:05 pm

pamoa wrote:well the gameplay is not symetrical
but first remember how conditional border works
one doesn't have to hold the "key" at the beginning of the round
it can be taken during one's round and (as in losing condition) immediately the attack route is open
so in our case the advantage is for Meade which trigger six attack routes
instead if you take Ewell you only have two attack route open
and then either you take Lee to open all the Confederate attack routes
or another Corps Commander to open two other routes
but the balance came that as you have to put more troops to open those doors
it is more expensive for Meade to bombard them all


Meade will has too big importance and from Union view the game become static.
pamoa wrote:the double route has no real meaning for me


then myabe make it as the otjers routes...
pamoa wrote:but what you describe can be achieved with a range of 3
the problem is it is a too big advantage for the first goer
you take cavalry then the 2 territory behind
and next turn your opponent has to take 3 positions to come back
with 2 it is more balanced

your second idea of making cavalry attack a conditional border linked to Army Commander may be nice
it would be without Army Commander you have a normal direct attack range
but if you hold your Army Commander you get an attack range of 2 or 3


I also like more the second idea :)

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Re: Field of Gettysburg [D] v04p4nov22

Postby nolefan5311 on Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:55 pm

Looking forward to seeing the update pamoa so I can comment. With all the things you and ONeyed have discussed, I can't really apply it to the map, so once you've posted an update I can provide additional thoughts.
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Re: Field of Gettysburg [D] v04p4nov22

Postby iancanton on Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:00 pm

[Moved]

pamoa, one month has passed since ur last comment, therefore the map is considered to be stalled. if u want to continue with the map, then one of the foundry moderators will be able to return the thread to the main foundry workshop, after an update has been made.

ian. :)
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Re: [Abandoned] Field of Gettysburg v04p4nov22

Postby isaiah40 on Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:34 am

The six months of vacation has expired, for this reason this topic is now labeled as [Abandoned]. An action, as stated in our Abandoned map policy has been taken. If the original mapmaker wants to continue this map project it's fine but a real update must provided. From this moment anyone else is free to continue this project without the original mapmaker permission, but it has to be started from the scratch.
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