[Vacation untill July 2014] Massacre à Paris

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Re: Massacre à Paris [14.12.12] V8-P5 GP - Guards

Postby cairnswk on Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:56 pm

FT, what about Moscow?
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Re: Massacre à Paris [14.12.12] V8-P5 GP - Guards

Postby cairnswk on Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:27 pm

OK, can anyone think of any better way to indicate the duelers that attack across borders.
At present the guards can attack across the building borders once conquered.
And the other duelers that can attack across borders are indicated by * in front of their name, but i am thinking maybe we can do better than that. :)
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Re: Massacre à Paris [14.12.12] V8-P5 GP - Guards

Postby nicarus on Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:48 pm

can HC, CE, CF, and HG attack each other through the shrubs, and if so why not CI and CJ?
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Re: Massacre à Paris [14.12.12] V8-P5 GP - Guards

Postby cairnswk on Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:53 pm

nicarus wrote:can HC, CE, CF, and HG attack each other through the shrubs, and if so why not CI and CJ?

You didn't read the legend...sorry nicarus
"All buildings, walls, fences and bushes are impassable"

Plus they are not marker with the asterisk.
"*Duelers marked with an asterisk have access to assault across region borders"

but thanks for taking time to have a look at map. Any other suggestions?
Last edited by cairnswk on Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Massacre à Paris [23.12.12] V9-P5 GP - Guards

Postby cairnswk on Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:54 pm

Version 9.
All guards now in picture...8 of them
Guards now have designation G in front of them
plus the legend has been changed.

Click image to enlarge.
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Re: Massacre à Paris [14.12.12] V8-P5 GP - Guards

Postby Funkyterrance on Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:11 pm

cairnswk wrote:OK, can anyone think of any better way to indicate the duelers that attack across borders.
At present the guards can attack across the building borders once conquered.
And the other duelers that can attack across borders are indicated by * in front of their name, but i am thinking maybe we can do better than that. :)


How about pools of blood at their feet that connect duelers? Sorry that's all I've got atm, I'll think about it. :)
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Re: Massacre à Paris [14.12.12] V8-P5 GP - Guards

Postby cairnswk on Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:33 pm

Funkyterrance wrote:
cairnswk wrote:OK, can anyone think of any better way to indicate the duelers that attack across borders.
At present the guards can attack across the building borders once conquered.
And the other duelers that can attack across borders are indicated by * in front of their name, but i am thinking maybe we can do better than that. :)


How about pools of blood at their feet that connect duelers? Sorry that's all I've got atm, I'll think about it. :)

1. would you see them except in a colour that isn't blood red? ;)
2. there is already a lot happening at their feet with armies and names.
3. i like that you'll think more about it! :)
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Re: Massacre à Paris [14.12.12] V8-P5 GP - Guards

Postby Funkyterrance on Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:56 pm

cairnswk wrote:
1. would you see them except in a colour that isn't blood red? ;)

Good point lol.
2. there is already a lot happening at their feet with armies and names.[/quote]
True, but that's where your eye tends to go I think.
3. i like that you'll think more about it! :)[/quote]

Ok, a couple more ideas to denote adjacents:

Dotted lines
Swooping arrows
Footprints (bloody? :P )
Shadows (shade)
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Re: Massacre à Paris [14.12.12] V8-P5 GP - Guards

Postby cairnswk on Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:14 pm

Funkyterrance wrote:
cairnswk wrote:2. there is already a lot happening at their feet with armies and names.

True, but that's where your eye tends to go I think.

Mmmm, now i;m totally doubtful /coz you used "i think" :)
cairnswk wrote:3. i like that you'll think more about it! :)

Ok, a couple more ideas to denote adjacents:
Dotted lines...
Mmm...i was hoping to stay away from these this map, but i'll consider if nothing better arises

Swooping arrows
Mmm, 8 arrows...more stuff to take in when the legend already tells us about bordering duelers
Footprints (bloody? :P )
...Nah! been there ;)
Shadows (shade)
...then somebody would ask why all the others don't have shadows :idea:

I was think about trying to indicate with the directions of the swords so they form a X across the borders, but would also have to have the swords doing the square thing also
like a cross inside a square image.
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Re: Massacre à Paris [14.12.12] V8-P5 GP - Guards

Postby Funkyterrance on Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:43 am

cairnswk wrote:
Shadows (shade)
...then somebody would ask why all the others don't have shadows :idea:

I was thinking more along the lines of maybe a tree or a wall or a flag or something casting a shadow on the adjacent duelers but I'm no mapmaker so I don't know how feasible something like that would be.

cairnswk wrote:I was think about trying to indicate with the directions of the swords so they form a X across the borders, but would also have to have the swords doing the square thing also
like a cross inside a square image.


Hmm, yes that could get tricky since the duelers are squished pretty closely as it stands; It may make it hard to tell what's actually going on. Besides, I think that the duelers look pretty cool in the positions they are now, would be a shame to spoil the continuous look of the battle.
EDIT: New Idea. Use the same arrow patterns in the legend on the map instead of in the legend. Most areas are self explanatory so you wouldn't need a whole mess of arrows, just ones to clarify the areas where it gets fuzzy(borders). I don't think it would make the map too busy if they were in a bright red color and thin. I think it would look cool tbh.
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Re: Massacre à Paris [14.12.12] V8-P5 GP - Guards

Postby cairnswk on Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:06 am

Funkyterrance wrote:
cairnswk wrote:
Shadows (shade)
...then somebody would ask why all the others don't have shadows :idea:

I was thinking more along the lines of maybe a tree or a wall or a flag or something casting a shadow on the adjacent duelers but I'm no mapmaker so I don't know how feasible something like that would be.

Shadow...not cool idea, sorry.

cairnswk wrote:I was think about trying to indicate with the directions of the swords so they form a X across the borders, but would also have to have the swords doing the square thing also
like a cross inside a square image.


Hmm, yes that could get tricky since the duelers are squished pretty closely as it stands; It may make it hard to tell what's actually going on. Besides, I think that the duelers look pretty cool in the positions they are now, would be a shame to spoil the continuous look of the battle.

Phew!

EDIT: New Idea. Use the same arrow patterns in the legend on the map instead of in the legend. Most areas are self explanatory so you wouldn't need a whole mess of arrows, just ones to clarify the areas where it gets fuzzy(borders). I don't think it would make the map too busy if they were in a bright red color and thin. I think it would look cool tbh.

FT, i can draw blood on the ground, that's not an issue and prob appropriate in some places where dead bodies are lying.

Perhaps i should just go with similar to G for Guards, and do B for Borders in front of the names :idea:
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Re: Massacre à Paris [23.12.12] V9-P5 GP - Guards

Postby cairnswk on Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:51 pm

FT, have you had any more thought on this. I have tried several methods of showing these borders including the arrows. dotted lines, shadows etc. but none work as succesfully as the notated text.
In the meantime while awaiting other gameplay feedback, i reworking design.
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Re: Massacre à Paris [23.12.12] V9-P5 GP - Guards

Postby Funkyterrance on Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:17 pm

cairnswk wrote:FT, have you had any more thought on this. I have tried several methods of showing these borders including the arrows. dotted lines, shadows etc. but none work as succesfully as the notated text.
In the meantime while awaiting other gameplay feedback, i reworking design.


Honestly, having a second look at this I think that little dotted black lines with arrows on both sides showing how duelers can attack in those areas on the map where there could be confusion is the best and clearest route.

Ex: Dueler 1 <--------------> Dueler 2

Obviously you can get as fancy or basic as you wish with this technique but when it comes down to it I think that there are definitely areas on the map where it's unclear who can attack who and simpler is probably better on this one. The map is gorgeous man, it just needs a tiny bit of explanation to be more accessible. The asterisks are enough explanation for me at this point but I have also been following this map all along; I feel that if I had just looked at it for the first time(as though I was considering playing it for the first time) I might still have questions about the asterisks. For example, in the clusters of duelers whom have asterisks, can they all attack each other or just the ones who are closest? It may sound stupid but looking from the outside in and considering all the many types of players we have on the sight(including those who don't read English well) I think that there is still room for confusion.

Hopefully this input helps and not hurts your progress. ;)

-FT
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Re: Massacre à Paris [23.12.12] V9-P5 GP - Guards

Postby cairnswk on Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:39 pm

Funkyterrance wrote:
cairnswk wrote:FT, have you had any more thought on this. I have tried several methods of showing these borders including the arrows. dotted lines, shadows etc. but none work as succesfully as the notated text.
In the meantime while awaiting other gameplay feedback, i reworking design.


Honestly, having a second look at this I think that little dotted black lines with arrows on both sides showing how duelers can attack in those areas on the map where there could be confusion is the best and clearest route.

Ex: Dueler 1 <--------------> Dueler 2

Obviously you can get as fancy or basic as you wish with this technique but when it comes down to it I think that there are definitely areas on the map where it's unclear who can attack who and simpler is probably better on this one. The map is gorgeous man, it just needs a tiny bit of explanation to be more accessible. The asterisks are enough explanation for me at this point but I have also been following this map all along; I feel that if I had just looked at it for the first time(as though I was considering playing it for the first time) I might still have questions about the asterisks. For example, in the clusters of duelers whom have asterisks, can they all attack each other or just the ones who are closest? It may sound stupid but looking from the outside in and considering all the many types of players we have on the sight(including those who don't read English well) I think that there is still room for confusion.

Hopefully this input helps and not hurts your progress. ;)

-FT


Brilliant thought food, thank-you! :D
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Re: Massacre à Paris [23.12.12] V9-P5 GP - Guards

Postby cairnswk on Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:35 pm

the map has been approved for supersize at 900W x 600H Small.
I am asking for an increase to 900W x 650H Small, so that i have adequate space to better display/explain the legend, and then hopefully move some of the more squashed elements up a fraction to provide better eye-space for some dueler/border challenges.
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Re: Massacre à Paris [9.1.13] V10-P5 border assaults

Postby cairnswk on Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:52 pm

OK, I've added another 50 pixels to the top of this so that i can flesh out the legend and top part of the map a little to see what these assault lines are going to look like.
I mut say i am not impressed with them at present, but maybe they can be improved.
My choice would be to do with out them and only have the asterisk text in the legend, but we'll see.
There's a few movements in the graphics also.

Click image to enlarge.
image
Last edited by cairnswk on Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Re: Massacre à Paris [9.1.13] V10-P7 border assaults

Postby Seamus76 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:34 pm

The attack routes are definitely well detailed and explained at the top, but you're right, on the map it's a little chaotic. It's not to hard to figure out what attacks what though, so nice job. It sounds like you're working on some other options, which based on how you evolve maps should be an improvement. Other than that, some of the bonus values are a bit hard to read, it could be my monitor, but one in particular is Place du Carrousel.
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Re: Massacre à Paris [9.1.13] V10-P5 border assaults

Postby Funkyterrance on Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:31 pm

cairnswk wrote:OK, I've added another 50 pixels to the top of this so that i can flesh out the legend and top part of the map a little to see what these assault lines are going to look like.
I mut say i am not impressed with them at present, but maybe they can be improved.
My choice would be to do with out them and only have the asterisk text in the legend, but we'll see.
There's a few movements in the graphics also.

Click image to enlarge.
image


The "boxes" of dotted lines imho now leave no question as far as attack routes and I feel they are the better choice. I'm assuming this is a rough version of the "boxes" though? You're right in thinking that they don't look quite right atm but I think that making them a little less rigid and more "human" would improve the feel greatly. This was the best image I could find to explain the sort of "organic" feel I was thinking for the dotted lines(minus the footprints of course):

Image
Last edited by Funkyterrance on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Massacre à Paris [23.12.12] V9-P5 GP - Guards

Postby isaiah40 on Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:05 pm

cairnswk wrote:the map has been approved for supersize at 900W x 600H Small.
I am asking for an increase to 900W x 650H Small, so that i have adequate space to better display/explain the legend, and then hopefully move some of the more squashed elements up a fraction to provide better eye-space for some dueler/border challenges.

I think we can allow you the extra 50px for the legend ONLY. If you can come up with a way to make everything clear with the original approved size, then we would prefer you to do so..
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Re: Massacre à Paris [23.12.12] V9-P5 GP - Guards

Postby cairnswk on Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:19 pm

isaiah40 wrote:
cairnswk wrote:the map has been approved for supersize at 900W x 600H Small.
I am asking for an increase to 900W x 650H Small, so that i have adequate space to better display/explain the legend, and then hopefully move some of the more squashed elements up a fraction to provide better eye-space for some dueler/border challenges.

I think we can allow you the extra 50px for the legend ONLY. If you can come up with a way to make everything clear with the original approved size, then we would prefer you to do so..

thank-you isaish40.
you know i will be as frigal as possible. :)
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Re: Massacre à Paris [9.1.13] V10-P5 border assaults

Postby Nola_Lifer on Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:28 pm

cairnswk wrote:OK, I've added another 50 pixels to the top of this so that i can flesh out the legend and top part of the map a little to see what these assault lines are going to look like.
I mut say i am not impressed with them at present, but maybe they can be improved.
My choice would be to do with out them and only have the asterisk text in the legend, but we'll see.
There's a few movements in the graphics also.



I agree. Unless there was a way to make them sexier.
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Re: Massacre à Paris [9.1.13] V10-P5 border assaults

Postby cairnswk on Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:31 pm

Funkyterrance wrote:....
Image


FT. I have to comment on this....i think this works well because there are only two elements on the page....the feet, and the arrow-dotted lines.
it is much clearer here because of this, but doesn't necessarily work on our map because of all the other elements.
just my thoughts on that. :)
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Re: Massacre à Paris [9.1.13] V10-P7 border assaults

Postby Nola_Lifer on Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:52 pm

Can you position them closer so that it is more obvious?
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Re: Massacre à Paris [9.1.13] V10-P7 border assaults

Postby cairnswk on Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:14 pm

Nola_Lifer wrote:Can you position them closer so that it is more obvious?

Sorry, how do you mean?
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Re: Massacre à Paris [9.1.13] V10-P5 border assaults

Postby Funkyterrance on Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:27 pm

cairnswk wrote:
Funkyterrance wrote:....
Image


FT. I have to comment on this....i think this works well because there are only two elements on the page....the feet, and the arrow-dotted lines.
it is much clearer here because of this, but doesn't necessarily work on our map because of all the other elements.
just my thoughts on that. :)


Hmm. Then I have to ask, do you like the look of the dotted lines in the latest version you put up or are you just not liking the dotted lines at all? Because I think that the "arrow squares" and arrows on your map are very effective, just that they would be a better fit for the map if they were curved and a little more random looking(like a battle between humans would be).
I have to say I love that image, I think it's dance steps or something but it really appeals to me lol.
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Colonel Funkyterrance
 
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