[Abandoned] Research & Conquer

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Re: New concept: Research

Postby t-o-m on Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:53 am

Androidz wrote:Don't mean to be the badass here but, do you know how small the map is gonna be?

Lets say 8 players..8 tech trees?

One small map?

It'll be fine i think.
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby Androidz on Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:59 am

t-o-m wrote:
Androidz wrote:Don't mean to be the badass here but, do you know how small the map is gonna be?

Lets say 8 players..8 tech trees?

One small map?

It'll be fine i think.


Maybe, maybe not only time will show:)
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby eigenvector on Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:03 pm

I like this very much. Great idea!

I was just thinking of something a bit similar. Will post more tech ideas later..
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby yeti_c on Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:05 pm

Another thought I had - Spies could perhaps bombard the tech trees too!?

Problem with that - is that you could grab the opposing spy - and bombard your tech tree - which can reduce the amount of research you can do.

C>
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby eigenvector on Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:07 pm

yeti_c wrote:Another thought I had - Spies could perhaps bombard the tech trees too!?

Problem with that - is that you could grab the opposing spy - and bombard your tech tree - which can reduce the amount of research you can do.

C>


Wouldn't these be saboteurs rather than spies?
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby OliverFA on Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:11 pm

Ok. There is an example. To make it simpler let's suppose just two techs. The geographical area is just a normal map, so I won't represent it. As colour codesr don't work with the Code tag, I will use blind colour codes.

Turn 0
That is the starting deployment. Each tech has neutrals equal to its difficulty.
Code: Select all
+----------+ +---------+ +---------+
| Red  Lab | | Tech 1  | | Tech 2  |
|    r1    | |  n100   | |  n500   |
+----------+ +---------+ +---------+

+----------+ +---------+ +---------+
| Blue Lab | | Tech 1  | | Tech 2  |
|    b1    | |  n100   | |  n500   |
+----------+ +---------+ +---------+


Turn 1
Red decides to turn 10 of his reinforcements into research units and deploys them in the lab.
Code: Select all
+----------+ +---------+ +---------+
| Red  Lab | | Tech 1  | | Tech 2  |
|   r11    | |  n100   | |  n500   |
+----------+ +---------+ +---------+

+----------+ +---------+ +---------+
| Blue Lab | | Tech 1  | | Tech 2  |
|    b1    | |  n100   | |  n500   |
+----------+ +---------+ +---------+


Red now attacks Tech 1 from Red Lab (aja researchs Tech 1) with the following result:
Code: Select all
+----------+ +---------+ +---------+
| Red  Lab | | Tech 1  | | Tech 2  |
|    r3    | |   n87   | |  n500   |
+----------+ +---------+ +---------+

+----------+ +---------+ +---------+
| Blue Lab | | Tech 1  | | Tech 2  |
|    b1    | |  n100   | |  n500   |
+----------+ +---------+ +---------+


This turn, Red scientifics have progressed 13 resarch units towards Tech 1. Next turn red can deploy more reinforcements in red lab and try again. Once Tech 1 is conquered, Red will enjoy its effects.

Hope this example makes thing clearer.
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby OliverFA on Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:21 pm

t-o-m wrote:It sounds great!
What sort of land layout are you thinking?

I used to love Civ - mainly because of the strategy, but i havnt seen it in a while.

This would truely be an interesting map.


To be honest, I have not decided yet. I think that maybe we could decide it all together. The two possibilites are:

Classic like map: A map representing a geographical area with no unique or special features on it.

Feudal-like map: A map which is almost all of it covered by neutral armies, with just the starting points ocupied by the players at the begining. The good side about this second option is that it allows for unique features. But the bad side is that it could make the map even more complicated. Not only for new players (disencouraging them to play) but also more difficult to develop.

Maybe it would be a good idea to stick with something not too complicated for starters. And if the concept works, there can always be a second version with enhanced more complex concepts?
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby OliverFA on Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:25 pm

RjBeals wrote:I must say OliverFA - you deserve a great welcome to the foundry. fresh Ideas and good attitude - exactly what we need around here. I'm partial to classic style gameplay, but have been wanting to broaden my range. I'll try to think through what you've posted so I can grasp the idea better. I hope you stick around here ;)


Thanks so much :-) At last I have realized that this place is a better place to release creativity than the suggestions forum!

I truly hope we can finally develop an entertaining and interesting map :-)
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby OliverFA on Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:36 pm

Androidz wrote:
t-o-m wrote:
Androidz wrote:Don't mean to be the badass here but, do you know how small the map is gonna be?

Lets say 8 players..8 tech trees?

One small map?

It'll be fine i think.


Maybe, maybe not only time will show:)


Excuse my ignorance. But: Which is the size for the board image?

I think it could work because you don't need to make the tech trees are very big. In fact that is why I proposed the "can research any basic tech" focus instead of a true tech tree to avoid having to draw all the arrows.

If it was needed, we could cut it to 6 players to make room, but I think we can make with 8.
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby Androidz on Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:48 pm

OliverFA wrote:
Androidz wrote:
t-o-m wrote:
Androidz wrote:Don't mean to be the badass here but, do you know how small the map is gonna be?

Lets say 8 players..8 tech trees?

One small map?

It'll be fine i think.


Maybe, maybe not only time will show:)


Excuse my ignorance. But: Which is the size for the board image?

I think it could work because you don't need to make the tech trees are very big. In fact that is why I proposed the "can research any basic tech" focus instead of a true tech tree to avoid having to draw all the arrows.

If it was needed, we could cut it to 6 players to make room, but I think we can make with 8.


not sure myself 640pix height and 600 widh or something.

Anyway i retought, this thing and all can use the samce tech tree just divide in colour boxes in 8. so may have right.
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby t-o-m on Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:00 pm

OliverFA wrote:Excuse my ignorance. But: Which is the size for the board image?

Small:

600 height | 640 width

Large:

800 height | 840 width (i think)
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby yeti_c on Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:06 pm

t-o-m wrote:
OliverFA wrote:Excuse my ignorance. But: Which is the size for the board image?

Small:

600 height | 630 width

Large:

800 height | 840 width (i think)


Fixed.

C.
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby ZeakCytho on Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:15 pm

This sounds like a great idea!
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby yeti_c on Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:23 pm

eigenvector wrote:
yeti_c wrote:Another thought I had - Spies could perhaps bombard the tech trees too!?

Problem with that - is that you could grab the opposing spy - and bombard your tech tree - which can reduce the amount of research you can do.

C>


Wouldn't these be saboteurs rather than spies?


Could well be - I was going for the civilization route!?

C.
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby yeti_c on Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:25 pm

OliverFA wrote:Excuse my ignorance. But: Which is the size for the board image?

I think it could work because you don't need to make the tech trees are very big. In fact that is why I proposed the "can research any basic tech" focus instead of a true tech tree to avoid having to draw all the arrows.

If it was needed, we could cut it to 6 players to make room, but I think we can make with 8.


For an example of the sort of thing that could be done - look at the Battle For Iraq! map - the loyalty bonuses show what could be done.

C.
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby yeti_c on Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:26 pm

OliverFA wrote:
RjBeals wrote:I must say OliverFA - you deserve a great welcome to the foundry. fresh Ideas and good attitude - exactly what we need around here. I'm partial to classic style gameplay, but have been wanting to broaden my range. I'll try to think through what you've posted so I can grasp the idea better. I hope you stick around here ;)


Thanks so much :-) At last I have realized that this place is a better place to release creativity than the suggestions forum!

I truly hope we can finally develop an entertaining and interesting map :-)


I second RJ's welcoming note.

And I agree - Sugs & Bugs never goes anywhere!!

C.
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby Androidz on Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:32 pm

yeti_c wrote:
OliverFA wrote:
RjBeals wrote:I must say OliverFA - you deserve a great welcome to the foundry. fresh Ideas and good attitude - exactly what we need around here. I'm partial to classic style gameplay, but have been wanting to broaden my range. I'll try to think through what you've posted so I can grasp the idea better. I hope you stick around here ;)


Thanks so much :-) At last I have realized that this place is a better place to release creativity than the suggestions forum!

I truly hope we can finally develop an entertaining and interesting map :-)


I second RJ's welcoming note.

And I agree - Sugs & Bugs never goes anywhere!!

C.


And i trible rj's welcomeing note:P
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby OliverFA on Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:14 pm

eigenvector wrote:I like this very much. Great idea!

I was just thinking of something a bit similar. Will post more tech ideas later..


Thanks for the comment, eigenvector
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby Androidz on Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:29 pm

OliverFA wrote:
Androidz wrote:Sounds nice, think some maps are pretty close those idea's tough. And tech should lead to anotehr tech. And if you choose one tech you cant choose another etc.

There are different ways to make the tech tree:

2 - Basic techs can be researched in any order, with advanced techs having basic techs as requisite.

This is what I proposed. I think this is better because gives players more freedom. The bad part is that a player that does not understand the rules can attack (research) many techs at the same time. But I think that if rules were clear enough, taht would not happen.

In my opinion this opens more possiblities. Player A can research the tech to enhance territory bonus while player B can research the tech to enhance continent bonus and player C researchs the "research speed" tech so he can always deploy on the geographical map and not have to deply on the research map. Each player will have a different strategy, which I think is good.




Option B is verry good. Which allow the players to choose what fitt them best etc, if player A have a continent bonus he would go for upgrade continent bonus.

But player B have lots of terretories so he go for upgrade is number of armies per terrories.

Now Player A can upgrade his continent bonus again to level 2 Continent bonus tech. But he could also choose something else. which he have been given access to cause of he reasarched the other tech.



Now you asked if the rules is clear enough this wont happen, well it will unless you do as ant wars.
Lets say Tech 1 options is given a "Yellow Colour Code = Beginner" Haveing 2 yellow techs will give you -100 armies at start of each turn. This way they have to choose 1.


And theres LOTS of options for diffrent techs. Check out my Atlantis map idea first post there ive posted 60 bonuses for codes:P So you can make it a quite complex tree.

viewtopic.php?f=241&t=57173&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=Codebreaker










Another thing you could do is (not sure if the xml allows it) You cant attack Tech level 2. Before have conquering Tech Pointcards/Reasarch failcites on map you more you have you more you can upgrade on the tech tree so it will lots of them on the map. The problem with this is a player with bad dices still don't have a chance.

Hope you understood what i said.
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby eigenvector on Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:17 pm

Okay, here are two simple ideas:

Airlift: the ability to fortify anywhere on the map.

Colour blind: you can use your cards as if they were any colour.
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby ZeakCytho on Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:18 pm

eigenvector wrote:Okay, here are two simple ideas:

Airlift: the ability to fortify anywhere on the map.

Colour blind: you can use your cards as if they were any colour.


Neither of those are possible without changing the game engine - the first might be possible with a new XML feature, but I don't think so, and the second certainly isn't.
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby eigenvector on Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:36 am

ZeakCytho wrote:
eigenvector wrote:Okay, here are two simple ideas:

Airlift: the ability to fortify anywhere on the map.

Colour blind: you can use your cards as if they were any colour.


Neither of those are possible without changing the game engine - the first might be possible with a new XML feature, but I don't think so, and the second certainly isn't.


Okay, is there a tutorial where I can learn the underlying data structure to get an idea of what's possible?
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby OliverFA on Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:59 am

yeti_c wrote:Another thought I had - Spies could perhaps bombard the tech trees too!?

Problem with that - is that you could grab the opposing spy - and bombard your tech tree - which can reduce the amount of research you can do.

C>


Interesting concept. I don't want to make the map too complicated for a version 1. But it is something to be taken into account. I will add it as an optional feature in the first post.

How do you envision it? Like a "spy" tech that allow you to bombard other players techs? Or as a territory in the map?
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby t-o-m on Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:00 pm

ZeakCytho wrote:
eigenvector wrote:Okay, here are two simple ideas:

Airlift: the ability to fortify anywhere on the map.

Colour blind: you can use your cards as if they were any colour.


Neither of those are possible without changing the game engine - the first might be possible with a new XML feature, but I don't think so, and the second certainly isn't.

The first is only possible if they can attack the terit as well.
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby OliverFA on Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:03 pm

eigenvector wrote:Okay, is there a tutorial where I can learn the underlying data structure to get an idea of what's possible?


You can look here viewtopic.php?t=23382
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