[Abandoned] Research & Conquer

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Re: New concept: Research

Postby OliverFA on Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:49 pm

t-o-m wrote:One tech could be researching Esponage (sp?), like in the game where you can research it, [because trigger boarders arent allowed] this could be a boarder and THE ONLY boarder to a spy or several spies, and this could be able to bombard a city or other techs?


Unfortunately (and unless I am wrong of course ;-) ) borders (neither normal borders nor bombard borders) cannot be triggered by any action. So the borders that we put in the map have to stay all the game.

I think that your idea is in fact two different ideas, that can be treated separately.

Spies: We can have a place in the geographical map or a technology (we should decide where it makes more sense) that allows to bombard other players technologies. This would be interpreted as the player puting the money in spies rather than in armies.
The effect would be that the victim player would lose the effect of the bombarded technology for the next turn. But he could easily regain it by attacking the single neutral that would appear in that tech.
In my opinion, that effect is perfect. A player can disrupt other player's tech using spies, but cannot make permanent damage.

Bombs: One technology could be bombs. Just like the famous V-2 bombs that were used at the end of WWII to bombard London from Germany. It would allow the player to bombard the map from the technology itself. It would be interpreted as the player puting the money in missile bombs rather than in conventional armies, science, or spies.
Basic bombs would allow the player to bombard his own country, and advanced bombs would allow the player to bombard any part of the full map. Of course, such technology should be expensive!

Both of these technologies add additional strategical options. When a player places reinforcement at the begining of the turn, he can:
- Invest in military, deploying conventional armies, in the geographical map
- Invest in research, deploying in the la
- Invest in spionage, deploying in the Spies technology
- Invest in contra-espionage, deploying in any discovered technology to protect it from enemies spies
- Invest in bombs, deploying in the bomb technologie/s
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby Emperor_Metalman on Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:33 pm

Good idea. There should be a version of the classic map with research.
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby mibi on Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:46 pm

Nice, avatar.

And the idea is a good one too. In my Trojan War map i tried to have each god have a special ability instead of just a plain bonus. This could be a function of the research as well. different abilities. Espionage can see the whole map for foggy games, Flight can attack certain places on the map like airports would. Armour would autodeploy 1 on all your territs. You get the idea.
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby OliverFA on Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:29 am

Emperor_Metalman wrote:Good idea. There should be a version of the classic map with research.


Thanks for your comments, Emperor Metalman :-)

Unfortunately (and again, unless I am wrong) with the current XML there cannot be a version of the classic map with research. The reason is that this kind of game needs starting positions. Then in order to make a research version of the starting map, we should find 8 starting positions in that map.

Anyway, good idea. Maybe it can be done a bit later :-)
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby OliverFA on Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:32 am

mibi wrote:Nice, avatar.

And the idea is a good one too. In my Trojan War map i tried to have each god have a special ability instead of just a plain bonus. This could be a function of the research as well. different abilities. Espionage can see the whole map for foggy games, Flight can attack certain places on the map like airports would. Armour would autodeploy 1 on all your territs. You get the idea.


Thanks for your comments mibi.

With the current XML, seeing all map in FoG means being able to bombard the full map. Not exactly the same :-( I have seen in the XML suggestions thread that there is the suggestion for observation points. If this suggestion was implemented we would be able to add the tech you suggested.

The same with autodeploy. Autodeploy is per territory, and for that reason cannot be triggered by a tech. :-(

Anyway, very nice suggestions. I apreciate them :-)
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby yeti_c on Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:25 am

OliverFA wrote:The same with autodeploy. Autodeploy is per territory, and for that reason cannot be triggered by a tech. :-(


Correct - although again there is a suggestion pending on this that could work. (in fact Mibi needs it for his Trench Warfare map.)

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Re: New concept: Research

Postby OliverFA on Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:56 am

yeti_c wrote:
OliverFA wrote:The same with autodeploy. Autodeploy is per territory, and for that reason cannot be triggered by a tech. :-(


Correct - although again there is a suggestion pending on this that could work. (in fact Mibi needs it for his Trench Warfare map.)

C.


Thanks for the confirmation Yeti ;-)

Anyway, I am determined to make this map with what we have right now. If the map is a success, there is always time to make a version 2 with the new features.
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby saraith on Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:04 am

This sounds like a really interesting concept, Oliver. It makes me want to go and get Civilization so I can have a clue as to what you're talking about ;)

I, for one, will be keeping a close eye on this thread, though.
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby yeti_c on Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:12 am

saraith wrote:This sounds like a really interesting concept, Oliver. It makes me want to go and get Civilization so I can have a clue as to what you're talking about ;)

I, for one, will be keeping a close eye on this thread, though.


Regardless - Civ 4 is one of the best games ever made (closly followed by Civ 3 and Civ 1 (I never played Civ 2 - But I heard that was pretty good too!)

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Re: New concept: Research

Postby OliverFA on Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:07 am

yeti_c wrote:
saraith wrote:This sounds like a really interesting concept, Oliver. It makes me want to go and get Civilization so I can have a clue as to what you're talking about ;)

I, for one, will be keeping a close eye on this thread, though.


Regardless - Civ 4 is one of the best games ever made (closly followed by Civ 3 and Civ 1 (I never played Civ 2 - But I heard that was pretty good too!)

C.


And don't forget Civilization Revolution! I take my DS always with me when I go out of home only to play CivRev!

Thanks for the comment, Saraith. Definitely you should try Civ. You would enjoy it.
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby mibi on Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:30 am

yeti_c wrote:
saraith wrote:This sounds like a really interesting concept, Oliver. It makes me want to go and get Civilization so I can have a clue as to what you're talking about ;)

I, for one, will be keeping a close eye on this thread, though.


Regardless - Civ 4 is one of the best games ever made (closly followed by Civ 3 and Civ 1 (I never played Civ 2 - But I heard that was pretty good too!)

C.


You know I played Civ 3 to death. I had it modded all to hell and spent hours making my own LOTR units. I even wrote a short story based on the game, historical fiction. But i never really played Civ4. I got a free Civ4 disk somehow and installed it, but only played through the tutorial a few rounds. I didn't have the manual and I was a bit scared that it would consume me.

Perhaps I should pick it back up if it is good as you say it is.
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby t-o-m on Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:41 pm

In fact, i joined this site because i played that game and liked the strategy in it, although i joined this because i thought it was like civ, its a different thing altogether :lol:
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby OliverFA on Sat Sep 20, 2008 10:55 am

Main post updated
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby t-o-m on Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:19 am

OliverFA wrote:
t-o-m wrote:One tech could be researching Esponage (sp?), like in the game where you can research it, [because trigger boarders arent allowed] this could be a boarder and THE ONLY boarder to a spy or several spies, and this could be able to bombard a city or other techs?


Unfortunately (and unless I am wrong of course ;-) ) borders (neither normal borders nor bombard borders) cannot be triggered by any action. So the borders that we put in the map have to stay all the game.

What i was saying was:

How about, BECAUSE trigger boarders aren't allowed, how about we have the ACTUAL tech be able to bombard places, like it is a spy?
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby OliverFA on Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:25 am

t-o-m wrote:
OliverFA wrote:
t-o-m wrote:One tech could be researching Esponage (sp?), like in the game where you can research it, [because trigger boarders arent allowed] this could be a boarder and THE ONLY boarder to a spy or several spies, and this could be able to bombard a city or other techs?


Unfortunately (and unless I am wrong of course ;-) ) borders (neither normal borders nor bombard borders) cannot be triggered by any action. So the borders that we put in the map have to stay all the game.

What i was saying was:

How about, BECAUSE trigger boarders aren't allowed, how about we have the ACTUAL tech be able to bombard places, like it is a spy?


Yes. That is the way we are going to make it. And it opens two different possibilities:

- Saboteurs: The sabotage/spy tech itself borders with all the other player techs, but only for bombard purposes. So once a player has discovered sabotage, he can disrupt other player techs by bombarding them.

- Bombs: The technology borders with geographical territories, allowing the player to build up his missile force (deploy to bomb technology) and then bombard any part of the geographical map from it.
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby max is gr8 on Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:28 am

New Tech Ideas (Ordered Basic Then Advanced of these Items)

Political Unrest - Once researched gives a negative bonus to all other players (Maybe negates basic reinforcements)
Counter Political Unrest - Negates the effect of Political Unrest

Basic Counter Intelligence - Bombards Spies (Spies Can Bombard These)
Advanced Counter Intelligence - Bombards Spies (Spies Cannot Bombard These)

Basic Tech Theft - Can attack basic techs
Adv Tech Theft - Can attack adv techs (Not Win Condition)

Also, OliverFA please can you sort this out soon (just the bare bones not the map) I want to use it for a tournament...
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby ZeakCytho on Sat Sep 20, 2008 2:00 pm

max is gr8 wrote:New Tech Ideas (Ordered Basic Then Advanced of these Items)

Political Unrest - Once researched gives a negative bonus to all other players (Maybe negates basic reinforcements)
Counter Political Unrest - Negates the effect of Political Unrest


Not possible to do currently.

max is gr8 wrote:Basic Counter Intelligence - Bombards Spies (Spies Can Bombard These)
Advanced Counter Intelligence - Bombards Spies (Spies Cannot Bombard These)

Not sure I like it, but it's a viable option.

max is gr8 wrote:Basic Tech Theft - Can attack basic techs
Adv Tech Theft - Can attack adv techs (Not Win Condition)

Not a good idea. Player A could attack all of player B's techs and leave him stranded on the geographical map, unable to research any techs. Then player A could take B's reinforcement techs and recieve a larger bonus than player C, for example. I suppose this could be part of a grand strategy, but I'm against it. Players should only be able to bombard each other's techs, not outright steal them.
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby t-o-m on Sat Sep 20, 2008 2:09 pm

A cool feature could be a culture meter, lol.

The higher you get the meter the higher people will be converted - (or it could just give an auto-deploy bonus around on your territs, but not currently possible in xml)
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby OliverFA on Sat Sep 20, 2008 4:05 pm

max is gr8 wrote:New Tech Ideas (Ordered Basic Then Advanced of these Items)

Political Unrest - Once researched gives a negative bonus to all other players (Maybe negates basic reinforcements)
Counter Political Unrest - Negates the effect of Political Unrest

Basic Counter Intelligence - Bombards Spies (Spies Can Bombard These)
Advanced Counter Intelligence - Bombards Spies (Spies Cannot Bombard These)

Basic Tech Theft - Can attack basic techs
Adv Tech Theft - Can attack adv techs (Not Win Condition)

Also, OliverFA please can you sort this out soon (just the bare bones not the map) I want to use it for a tournament...


Thanks for the new techs suggestions Max :-)

I like the one about counter intelligence a lot! Not that I dislike the others, but the one about Counter Intelligence seems to fit very well in our design.

What do you think about the possibility of, instead of having four techs (Basic and Adv Sabotage, plus Basic and advanced counter intelligence) compacting all of them in two? Basic spy would be saboutage, and advanced spy would be counter intelligence.

The one about political unrest is very difficult to implement with the current engine. Not impossible, but very difficult... Nice idea anyway.

Tech stealing, I don't think is so nice idea. The problem is that the way technologies will be implemented, stealing a tech would add the effects from the enemy tech to your own. And that is not how it is supposed to be.

Anyway, thanks for the suggestions. I really like the one about counter intelligence, to use it as "Andvanced Spies" :-)

About having it sorted... Don't know exactly what you mean with the bare bones. As you see, I am working in this (I updated the main post today) and the map is also being made by my co-author, who wishes to remain anonimous for the moment ;-)

For the version 1, I will work with only the 8 initial techs. If I finish the XML soon enough, I could add some of the other techs. If not, there can always be a version 2 of this map with the added techs. ;-)
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby OliverFA on Sat Sep 20, 2008 4:08 pm

ZeakCytho wrote:
max is gr8 wrote:New Tech Ideas (Ordered Basic Then Advanced of these Items)

Political Unrest - Once researched gives a negative bonus to all other players (Maybe negates basic reinforcements)
Counter Political Unrest - Negates the effect of Political Unrest


Not possible to do currently.

This just gave me a possible idea.

We could implement that political unrest if player loses the capital. But maybe, if the player loses the capital he is losing the game anyway, and there is no need to add an extra malus to the poor player. I will add it as a possibility, and ask you about it once we have the map.
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby OliverFA on Sat Sep 20, 2008 4:09 pm

t-o-m wrote:A cool feature could be a culture meter, lol.

The higher you get the meter the higher people will be converted - (or it could just give an auto-deploy bonus around on your territs, but not currently possible in xml)


yes, it would be a cool feature :-) But it's difficult to implement right now :-(
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Re: "New Concept: Research [V1 P1 & 5]"

Postby OliverFA on Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:43 pm

We have an image draft!

Image

The map co-author did it. I trully believe it is great. But of course there is a small chance that I could be biassed ;-) so I would like to know your opinion about it. :-)
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Re: "New Concept: Research [V1 P1 & 5]"

Postby ZeakCytho on Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:49 pm

It's a very nice start, but many of the territories are too small to fit both a name (or number) and the armies.
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Re: "New Concept: Research [V1 P1 & 5]"

Postby Androidz on Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:50 pm

OliverFA wrote:We have an image draft!

Image

The map co-author did it. I trully believe it is great. But of course there is a small chance that I could be biassed ;-) so I would like to know your opinion about it. :-)


I love it but now it just straith with resarch nothing to choose between:(
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Re: "New Concept: Research [V1 P1 & 5]"

Postby MrBenn on Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:51 pm

A very good draft, although as we've already discussed there will be some issues with the playable map names etc.

Anyway, onwards and upwards... [moved to Drafting Room] ;-)
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PB: 2661 | He's blue... If he were green he would die | No mod would be stupid enough to do that
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Lieutenant MrBenn
Retired Team Member
 
Posts: 7049
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:32 am
Location: Off Duty
Medals: 67
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (2)
General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (1) Map Contribution (7) Tournament Contribution (2) General Contribution (15)

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