[Abandoned] - Divine Meteo Condition

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Re: Conquer Club Divine Meteorological Condition (See p.2)

Postby Evil DIMwit on Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:09 am

Submitted a brief for this. What do you think of these neutral values:
War, death, trickster gods: 2 each
Each temple: 2
Underworld territories: 1 each, except for altars, which are 3
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Re: Conquer Club Divine Meteorological Condition (See p.2)

Postby Riskismy on Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:48 pm

I couldn't find it in the first post, so please remind me, what are the starting territories?

Also, is that a working title, or is that really the name you're going for?
Just seems to have precious little to do with meteorology to me.
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Re: Conquer Club Divine Meteorological Condition (See p.2)

Postby ender516 on Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:44 pm

I believe the name is an attempt to reference an existing game without breaking copyright or trademark laws. I think I figured it out from the first few pages of the topic, but I have since forgotten.
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Re: Conquer Club Divine Meteorological Condition (See p.2)

Postby natty dread on Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:46 pm

it's a pun on "godstorm"
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Re: Conquer Club Divine Meteorological Condition (See p.2)

Postby Evil DIMwit on Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:43 pm

I thought I'd put gameplay information in the first post, but it seems I forgot to submit. Here's what it says now:


8 neutral-coded starting positions, each consisting of a pantheon and a sky god
Other deities start at 2 neutrals each
8 Temples start at 2 neutrals; other earthly territories are random drop
Underworld territories all start at 1 except for altars which start at 3

40 Heavenly territories (8 pantheons, 32 deities)
61 Earthly territories (8 temples, 53 random drop)
24 Underworld territories (8 portals, 8 crypts, 3 altars)


Thoughts:
- Not sure which deities should be part of the starting territories, if at all.
- Might reduce the number of underworld portals to 4 or 5. What do you guys think?
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Re: Conquer Club Divine Meteorological Condition (See p.2)

Postby Riskismy on Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:58 am

Evil DIMwit wrote:8 neutral-coded starting positions, each consisting of a pantheon and a sky god


That means that in a two-player game, they get a pantheon each, not 4 each - correct?

re: Stating deities:
I think the sky god is an excellent choice, hastens the access from gods to mortal realm.

re: portals:
Have no strong feeling on this. AS long as the death god can attack any of them you could have just 1 portal. Wouldn't do that though, should be some room to move around in.
If you reduce the number, I'd get rid of the ones not on the edge first.

Lastly, could I have you darken the text in the legend? It's kinda hard to read with this little contrast to the background.
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Re: Conquer Club Divine Meteorological Condition (See p.2)

Postby Evil DIMwit on Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:00 pm

Riskismy wrote:
Evil DIMwit wrote:8 neutral-coded starting positions, each consisting of a pantheon and a sky god


That means that in a two-player game, they get a pantheon each, not 4 each - correct?

No, sadly it just means that if any pantheons are left over (for 3, 5, 6, and 7-player games) the remaining pantheons won't be used. 4 and 3 player games will have two pantheons each, and 2p games will have four pantheons each.

Lastly, could I have you darken the text in the legend? It's kinda hard to read with this little contrast to the background.

I have done this.

Click image to enlarge.
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Re: Conquer Club Divine Meteorological Condition (See p.3)

Postby Riskismy on Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:40 pm

Legend is much better now, thanks.

At first I thought the +2 bonus for holding 'your homeland' referred to the areas in the mortal realm, but then I noticed the picture in the lower left (those bonuses look well balanced to me, btw). But now I can't figure what you mean by 'your homeland'?

Other than that, I can only think of suggesting you move the eastern Altar to the territory above. This way it would more closely mirror the western (which doesn't border a Portal).

This should move on to gameplay forum soon imo, though you do lack the territory names.
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Re: Conquer Club Divine Meteorological Condition (See p.3)

Postby Evil DIMwit on Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:46 pm

"Your homeland" means the bonus region(s) corresponding to your pantheon. Therefore whoever has the Roman pantheon would get +2 for holding the Roman Empire; whoever has the Celtic pantheon would get +2 for both Celtic regions together, and so on.

Moving the altar is fine, though I don't know that it makes much difference.
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Re: Conquer Club Divine Meteorological Condition (See p.3)

Postby Riskismy on Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:13 pm

"Your homeland" means the bonus region(s) corresponding to your pantheon. Therefore whoever has the Roman pantheon would get +2 for holding the Roman Empire; whoever has the Celtic pantheon would get +2 for both Celtic regions together, and so on.

Ah. I see, but I think you need to clarify that on the legend. Perhaps add 'homeland' to each of the names in the picture on the lower left. So 'Egypt' would read 'Egyptian Homeland'. Or maybe colour the pantheons accordingly.
Whatever the solution, I think it should be made clearer.

Thinking on it, I quite like how one bonus area can be worth more to one player than the others. Very nice!
Didn't think that was even possible, have to re-visit that XML thread. :oops:

Moving the altar is fine, though I don't know that it makes much difference.

No, not much difference, but 3 more neutrals is a difference to be reckoned with imo.
I guess, though, that this is just my preference to symmetry shining through. No real problem in some gates being more attractive than others.
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Re: Conquer Club Divine Meteorological Condition (See p.3)

Postby Evil DIMwit on Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:45 pm

A few changes in this one:
Click image to enlarge.
image

One, I've taken the starting positions into account and recalculated the number of earthly territories so that no one starts with a multiple of 2. Accordingly, some continents have fewer territories, so I've taken their bonus down. In addition, players will be limited to 2 starting positions each. This only affects 2p games, but I think it makes the pantheons more manageable.
Also note that all the territories are now named.

One thing I'm considering is adding an Italia-Hellas connection, and bringing Italia's value back up to 5.
I could make the homeland value balance a bit more interesting by merging Libu and Meshwesh, merging Kemet and Sinai, putting an extra territory in the Babylonian area, making the Egypt bonus +2 and Babylon bonus +4.


Riskismy wrote:Ah. I see, but I think you need to clarify that on the legend. Perhaps add 'homeland' to each of the names in the picture on the lower left. So 'Egypt' would read 'Egyptian Homeland'. Or maybe colour the pantheons accordingly.
Whatever the solution, I think it should be made clearer.

I've added 'Homelands' to the minimap. I'm not going to put it after every single label. Color isn't a solution since it's hard to make 8 distinct ones for colorblind people.

Thinking on it, I quite like how one bonus area can be worth more to one player than the others. Very nice!
Didn't think that was even possible, have to re-visit that XML thread. :oops:

Well, it's all artificially done using starting positions that can't be reassigned. That way, when a player holds their homeland, they own an overriding continent consisting of the homeland and the native pantheon, which is worth 2 more than the homeland alone.
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Re: Conquer Club Divine Meteorological Condition (See p.3)

Postby Riskismy on Sat Apr 02, 2011 3:37 pm

Evil DIMwit wrote:A few changes in this one:
Click image to enlarge.
image

One, I've taken the starting positions into account and recalculated the number of earthly territories so that no one starts with a multiple of 2. Accordingly, some continents have fewer territories, so I've taken their bonus down. In addition, players will be limited to 2 starting positions each. This only affects 2p games, but I think it makes the pantheons more manageable.
Also note that all the territories are now named.

Except underworld :P

Riskismy wrote:Ah. I see, but I think you need to clarify that on the legend. Perhaps add 'homeland' to each of the names in the picture on the lower left. So 'Egypt' would read 'Egyptian Homeland'. Or maybe colour the pantheons accordingly.
Whatever the solution, I think it should be made clearer.

I've added 'Homelands' to the minimap. I'm not going to put it after every single label. Color isn't a solution since it's hard to make 8 distinct ones for colorblind people.


Great, much clearer.
What I meant by color was that you should apply the respective colors to the gods' areas. Something like that, to visually make the connection.
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Re: Conquer Club Divine Meteorological Condition (See p.3)

Postby ender516 on Sat Apr 02, 2011 6:28 pm

Yes, colour the ovals behind the god circles so that they match the Homelands.
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Re: Conquer Club Divine Meteorological Condition (See p.3)

Postby Evil DIMwit on Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:42 pm

Well, this isn't quite the graphical stage yet, but ultimately not a bad idea.
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Re: Conquer Club Divine Meteorological Condition (See p.3)

Postby ender516 on Sun Apr 03, 2011 2:15 pm

Well, at the risk of pushing my luck too far, another basically graphical suggestion:

It will cost some space, but arrange each set of gods around the pantheon like the 5 dots on a die (a quincunx, to be precise)

Code: Select all
     S     W
        P
     T     D


(Sky, War, Pantheon, Trickster, Death).
This layout gives more room for larger troop numbers without running over each other. In fact, it could be rotated so that no one number is in a horizontal line with any other.
Code: Select all
      S     
            W
        P
    T
          D
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Re: Conquer Club Divine Meteorological Condition (See p.3)

Postby natty dread on Sun Apr 03, 2011 2:19 pm

I agree with nowhere man
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Re: Conquer Club Divine Meteorological Condition (See p.3)

Postby Evil DIMwit on Sun Apr 03, 2011 3:44 pm

Something like this then?

Click image to enlarge.
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Re: Conquer Club Divine Meteorological Condition (See p.3)

Postby Riskismy on Sun Apr 03, 2011 5:24 pm

Looks great! Let's move this sucker!
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Re: Conquer Club Divine Meteorological Condition (See p.3)

Postby Evil DIMwit on Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:13 pm

Here's a somewhat alternative gameplay arrangement:

Click image to enlarge.
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Re: Conquer Club Divine Meteorological Condition (See p.3)

Postby Industrial Helix on Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:20 pm

Jus throwing this out there... but why not omit Russia (given its lateness to the ancient gods thing) and use supersize to head east to India. Too often the basic Med/European map is used on CC, it might be a nice to include India for a change and skip Russia.
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Re: Conquer Club Divine Meteorological Condition (See p.3)

Postby Evil DIMwit on Sun Apr 03, 2011 7:10 pm

A few I can think of off the top of my head:

-- Supersize is meant to be used only when necessary, and it's not necessary here
-- India is quite separate from the rest of everywhere -- it'd pretty much only connect to Babylon, and to that through Persia.
-- The Slavic deities were worshiped about the same time as the Norse ones.
-- I feel perfectly justified in using Europe/Med, as this is supposed to be derived from Risk Godstorm, which takes place in this area.
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Re: Conquer Club Divine Meteorological Condition (See p.3)

Postby MrBenn on Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:22 am

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Re: Conquer Club Divine Meteorological Condition (See p.3)

Postby ender516 on Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:33 am

Congratulations on the stamp! So, now the grilling begins. Regarding the War god bonus: to clarify, these are free deployment troops earned at a rate of 1 per four earthly territories, but only if you hold at least one War god. Or do you mean to multiply this by the number of War gods held?
Also an early graphics suggestion: swap the underworld and the mini-map, left and right. Then, you can move your title and signature up into the the UGLY WHITE SPACE (seems a bit racist ;) ), and the extra space can now be divided between the legend and the underworld as necessary. The underworld could be stretched and curved around the bottom left corner, spreading out its territories for more clarity, without fear of complaint that you messed up the geography, barring the arrival in this forum of Heracles or Theseus, who know their way around there. On the other hand, legends on maps sometimes grow, so it may need the space, so it might be best to leave that open for flexibility.
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Re: Conquer Club Divine Meteorological Condition (See p.3)

Postby Evil DIMwit on Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:27 pm

I think since all the other gods (except Tricksters) do give additional benefits for holding multiple instances, it's fine to allow War God bonuses to stack. In any case, I was intending for the start position limit to be 2 so that's the maximum number of War Gods you can hold.

I tried the graphical suggestion. It didn't work out very well.
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Re: Conquer Club Divine Meteorological Condition (See p.3)

Postby ender516 on Fri Apr 15, 2011 2:02 pm

Do the temples still assault the gods? If so, I might be able to get even more War Gods.
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