[Abandoned] - Zombie Invasion!

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Re: Zombie Invasion- Version 3.0 [VACATION]

Postby -=- Tanarri -=- on Tue May 24, 2011 8:54 pm

I'm still looking forward to it as well and also hoping it gets revived :)
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Re: Zombie Invasion- Version 3.0 [VACATION]

Postby AndyDufresne on Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:43 am

I had completely forgot about this map. I remember now how much I wanted to see it done!


--Andy
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Re: Zombie Invasion- Version 3.0 [VACATION]

Postby MarshalNey on Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:53 pm

I've had a bit of trouble with uploading to photobucket, so Top Dog was kind enough to upload my latest effort. I'll update the 1st post shortly, but I wanted to get this out here as soon as I could to get some feedback.

If any followers of this map are left (it has been just over a year on vacation!), they will notice some significant 'tweaks' to the gameplay, but largely all of the elements are still there. The biggest difference is the mechanic for the Gangs (formerly called Factions but changed for space considerations), which no longer provide a +2 autodeploy but instead start with 10 troops and are part of a losing condition- a player must hold at least 1 gang at all times or lose immediately.

Click image to enlarge.
image


This is the large map only for the moment, in case I've gone in the completely wrong direction with the look of the map (the small map is not difficult but it is tedious to do).

One other major alteration to note about the gameplay- the Items that are indoors are now in a separate room for purposes of clarity, and likewise the gangs now occupy their own space. The rooms that the Items occupy are colored to show that they are not a part of any bonus area, while the Gangs have been changed so that they are part of the bonus area. The number of regions per bonus area is unchanged, however, because I removed a room from each bonus area in order to give the Gangs their own space.

A fair number of indoor connections have been fiddled with, as space and artistic rendering required. I don't think that the gameplay has been significantly impacted, I tried to make sure that the number of borders per bonus area would remain the same.

Some map followers might think that the 'Havens' are a new addition to the gameplay, however this is not so. I simply defined the phrase "non-zombie street region" that was used in ealier versions of the map. This helped save space where it was needed under the explanation of the Item powers.

Finally, the values for the bonus areas have been modified a little. Fort Alamo has been lowered from +3 to +2, and the Mall and Ghetto have both been lowered from +7 to +6.

As far as graphics go, I hope that I'm zeroing in on a more finished look for the legend, and that the playable part of the map has more 3D depth. My primary bad feeling about it is that the legend is a bit cramped, but I've stared at this thing way too long to have a completely objective opinion anymore.

Thoughts?
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Re: Zombie Invasion!- Back From the Dead Version 24 [page 12

Postby ender516 on Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:41 am

Glad to see this back!

The blue colour of the Havens is not very noticeable. The only names that seemed blue at first glance are the Wheels, so the legend seemed to suggest that they one-way attacked each other. :?: Reexamining the map, I see that the Havens are the street regions other than Wheels which are not on a bloodstain. I was about to suggest that the Havens use a colour a bit more in contrast to the street grey, like a pale green, when I realized that the Zombie street regions were using a green. :oops: :? A more saturated blue might be more obvious, but it might lose contrast. Of course, the Wheels looked blue to me immediately. Would it confuse anything if the Wheels and Havens used the same text colour? The Wheels are distinguished by the truck icon.

Forgive me for not reading back, but the legend doesn't make it crystal clear: how do the Wards work? Holding one gives you an additional +1 for every 4 regions held overall? Will holding both give +2 for every 4 regions held overall? (There are only two, right, the Relic and the Tome?)
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Re: Zombie Invasion!- Back From the Dead Version 24 [page 12

Postby MarshalNey on Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:30 am

ender516 wrote:Glad to see this back!

The blue colour of the Havens is not very noticeable. The only names that seemed blue at first glance are the Wheels, so the legend seemed to suggest that they one-way attacked each other. :?: Reexamining the map, I see that the Havens are the street regions other than Wheels which are not on a bloodstain. I was about to suggest that the Havens use a colour a bit more in contrast to the street grey, like a pale green, when I realized that the Zombie street regions were using a green. :oops: :? A more saturated blue might be more obvious, but it might lose contrast. Of course, the Wheels looked blue to me immediately. Would it confuse anything if the Wheels and Havens used the same text colour? The Wheels are distinguished by the truck icon.


Thanks for the quick comments Ender, you're one of the best there is :)

I hear ya about the blue for the Havens... I'll go for something more obvious, more saturated or a different color altogether.

ender516 wrote:Forgive me for not reading back, but the legend doesn't make it crystal clear: how do the Wards work? Holding one gives you an additional +1 for every 4 regions held overall? Will holding both give +2 for every 4 regions held overall? (There are only two, right, the Relic and the Tome?)


The Wards give +1 for every 4 regions held overall, like a weaker version of the territory bonus.

Yes, every Item works independently, so two of a type that provide a bonus would provide it twice overall. I thought about including this in the legend, but given that it's not specified in other maps and I don't think I have the space, I left it out... poor excuse, I know. I keep wondering if I shouldn't ask for another 40 pixels horizontally, to let the legend frame the map and provide plenty of room.

And yes, there are only 2 of every type of Item- one in the general vicinity of each bonus area.
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Re: Zombie Invasion!- Back From the Dead Version 24 [page 12

Postby isaiah40 on Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:36 am

Welcome back Marshal!! Glad you're bringing this one back to the living dead!! :P
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Re: Zombie Invasion!- Back From the Dead Version 24 [page 12

Postby koontz1973 on Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:48 am

isaiah40 wrote:Welcome back Marshal!! Glad you're bringing this one back to the living dead!! :P


This is a great map and cannot wait. Please no more vacations [-X
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Re: Zombie Invasion!- Back From the Dead Version 24 [page 12

Postby Top Dog on Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:19 pm

I agree with ender, First thing I thought when I saw this was the blue "havens" not really looking blue... could you just swap the colors from the armored car/meat wagon to the street territories??
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Re: Zombie Invasion!- Back From the Dead Version 24 [page 12

Postby Victor Sullivan on Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:03 pm

Totally psyched to see this back in action! :D Some comments (they're a mix of gameplay and graphics, forgive me if my thoughts aren't entirely organized):

  • I kinda liked the term "cabal" over "gang". A church "gang" seems a bit oxymoronic, no? Even "faction" would be better IMO.
  • The gangs shouldn't be tied to their respective bonus areas, given the losing conditions. IMO you should make it so that anyone can hold any bonus area, regardless of which gang(s) they start with.
  • Not fond of the Comic Sans-esque font used for the street regions, it certainly doesn't scream "Aaah!! Zombies!! They're gonna eat my brains!!"
  • Under the "Gangs" section of the legend, you could use those blood splotches like you have for the zombie regions for "you will die" to add some extra oomph.
  • The largest zombie at the top of the map - there is a line going over the middle finger of his right hand.
  • Avoid putting gangs at the edge of their bonus area. They should be sufficiently protected, methinks.
That's all for now!

-Sully
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Re: Zombie Invasion!- Back From the Dead Version 24 [page 12

Postby MarshalNey on Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:52 pm

Top Dog wrote:I agree with ender, First thing I thought when I saw this was the blue "havens" not really looking blue... could you just swap the colors from the armored car/meat wagon to the street territories??


Gotcha, Dog, I'll do just that I think

Sully wrote: kinda liked the term "cabal" over "gang". A church "gang" seems a bit oxymoronic, no? Even "faction" would be better IMO.
The gangs shouldn't be tied to their respective bonus areas, given the losing conditions. IMO you should make it so that anyone can hold any bonus area, regardless of which gang(s) they start with.
Under the "Gangs" section of the legend, you could use those blood splotches like you have for the zombie regions for "you will die" to add some extra oomph.
Avoid putting gangs at the edge of their bonus area. They should be sufficiently protected, methinks.

Obsessed with the gangs I see.
Hrmmm, well I'll have to think upon what you're saying, particularly with tying the gangs to the bonus areas. It felt like a breakthrough for clarity's sake when I simply made the Gang and the room it was in into one region- much less clutter, and no need to say anything special in the legend.
As for the name Gang, well I changed it for space purposes, but in its current state there is plenty of space to change the name back to "Faction".
As for the Gang placement, I feel that there could be an equitable tradeoff between attacking options and defense even when certain Gangs are more isolated (fewer borders) than others. Could a Gang be taken in the very first round? The dice make anything possible, but I'm hoping that 10 is a sufficient deterrent for making the attempt. If it becomes too much of a hassle, I might abandon the idea of a losing condition altogether.

Sully wrote:Not fond of the Comic Sans-esque font used for the street regions, it certainly doesn't scream "Aaah!! Zombies!! They're gonna eat my brains!!"

It's not Comic Sans-esque. It's actually the much-reviled Comic Sans in the flesh. And it was meant to convey more of a light-hearted edge to what could otherwise become a very grisly map. Still, perhaps the region names convey enough of a campy "Army of Darkness" mood without the font. I hate font-shopping... grumble...

Sully wrote:The largest zombie at the top of the map - there is a line going over the middle finger of his right hand.

Got it, it shall be eaten away.


Two questions:
Is it possible to have an "OR" losing condition- e.g., hold at least 1 gang OR hold more than 6 regions in order to survive?

Would you (or Ender) be willing to do the XML for this map?
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Re: Zombie Invasion!- Back From the Dead Version 24 [page 12

Postby ender516 on Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:55 pm

MarshalNey wrote:Two questions:
Is it possible to have an "OR" losing condition- e.g., hold at least 1 gang OR hold more than 6 regions in order to survive?

Would you (or Ender) be willing to do the XML for this map?

Answers:
  1. I think a requirement could be constructed as you suggest. I'll have to check, but it's late, and I have a lot of driving to do tomorrow.
  2. Ooo, ooo, pick me! My other maps have stalled.
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Re: Zombie Invasion!- Back From the Dead Version 24 [page 12

Postby Victor Sullivan on Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:59 pm

ender516 wrote:Ooo, ooo, pick me! My other maps have stalled.

Aww, ender beat me to it :(

MarshalNey wrote:Is it possible to have an "OR" losing condition- e.g., hold at least 1 gang OR hold more than 6 regions in order to survive?

I believe so, yes.

-Sully
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Re: Zombie Invasion!- Back From the Dead Version 24 [page 12

Postby Victor Sullivan on Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:00 am

Hey! You edited your post, ender! :( *grumble* :P

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Re: Zombie Invasion!- Back From the Dead Version 24 [page 12

Postby ender516 on Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:01 am

I was in such a hurry to volunteer for the XML, I forgot to answer the first question, so I tweaked things.
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Re: Zombie Invasion!- Back From the Dead Version 24 [page 12

Postby Victor Sullivan on Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:03 am

ender516 wrote:I was in such a hurry to volunteer for the XML, I forgot to answer the first question, so I tweaked things.

Lol. I guess I need to be a quicker clicker (and get faster internet) :P

But no worries, it's all you, my man :)

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Re: Zombie Invasion!- Back From the Dead Version 24 [page 12

Postby Top Dog on Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:57 pm

It's awesome that Marshall can get some help w/ the map, definitely is going to speed things up in the long run. And of course I think whoever does XML coding can get the medal for helping w/ the map!Especially since I just threw together my rough drafts and offered some suggestions here and there! ;)

As for the street fonts... I don't personally mind them... but if you want to mess w/ a few ideas and upload 'em that would definitely help!

and, are you going for a "feudal war" type gameplay w/ the Faction HQ's being like castles? and you lose your castle and you're kinda screwed?
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Re: Zombie Invasion!- Back From the Dead Version 24 [page 12

Postby MarshalNey on Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:36 pm

New Draft, Version 25:
Click image to enlarge.
image


Changes:
-- increased the 'blueness' of the Haven names
-- tried out an effect on the Comic Sans font in the streets... I'm not sure if I like it or not, but I think it lends a more apocolyptic feel
-- Pending notice of whether a losing condition can have 2 parts or not, I went ahead and changed the losing condition to holding either 1 Gang OR 1 Haven. This should prevent any danger of early bum-rush kills, particualry in team games like quads. Plus it doesn't tie a player to defending his Gang to the death, so I feel that it opens up each building bonus area more to conquest by any player.
-- In light of the change above, I went ahead and paired a Haven starting position with each Gang. The Haven starting position have 6 troops each.

Thoughts?
(still working on the 1st post update but it is partially done)
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Re: Zombie Invasion!- Back From the Dead Version 24 [page 12

Postby MarshalNey on Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:40 pm

Top Dog wrote:It's awesome that Marshall can get some help w/ the map, definitely is going to speed things up in the long run. And of course I think whoever does XML coding can get the medal for helping w/ the map!Especially since I just threw together my rough drafts and offered some suggestions here and there! ;)

As for the street fonts... I don't personally mind them... but if you want to mess w/ a few ideas and upload 'em that would definitely help!

and, are you going for a "feudal war" type gameplay w/ the Faction HQ's being like castles? and you lose your castle and you're kinda screwed?


Thanks again btw Top Dog for uploading these updates to your photobucket account.

And yes, thanks Ender and Sully for the enthusiastic response. It appears that Ender wins, and Sully has gracefully conceded :) So Ender once I've nailed down the Losing Condition part of the gameplay I'm going to consider it (semi-)permanent, which means I'm guessing that the XML work may begin...

I hear ya Dog about the castle analogy, and I don't want the Gangs to be quite so central perhaps, which is hopefully been addressed in the latest update. Now a player can protect either his Havens or his Gang(s), but he does not have to hold both.
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Re: Zombie Invasion!- Back From the Dead Version 25 [page 13

Postby Victor Sullivan on Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:22 pm

I'd try to avoid doling out havens in Fort Alamo. I feel like that gives a decent advantage to those starting positions.

And I do look pretty good with a shotgun, don't I? :mrgreen:

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Re: Zombie Invasion!- Back From the Dead Version 25 [page 13

Postby ender516 on Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:38 pm

If your requirement (losing condition) is simply that you need either 1 Gang or 1 Haven, then there should be no problem (that is, if each of these is a single territory). The code would look something like this:

Code: Select all
<requirement>
       <name>One Gang or One Haven</name>
       <components>
          <territory>Executive Offices</territory> <!-- Machiavellians -->
          <territory>Star Chamber</territory> <!-- Aarchons -->
          .
          .
          .
          <territory>Custard Stand</territory> <!-- Haven -->
          <territory>Grate</territory> <!-- Haven -->
          .
          .
          .
       </components>
       <required>1</required>
    </requirement>


I will check if the components of a requirement can be continents. This could make the code shorter, and might give more flexibility as well, for instance, if holding a Gang requires holding more than one territory.
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Re: Zombie Invasion!- Back From the Dead Version 25 [page 13

Postby Victor Sullivan on Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:47 pm

I would think continent tags would be able to be used, but I can't say with much certainty.

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Re: Zombie Invasion!- Back From the Dead Version 25 [page 13

Postby ender516 on Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:54 pm

Yes, it seems logical. Given the fact that objectives can use continents, why not requirements?
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Re: Zombie Invasion!- Back From the Dead Version 25 [page 13

Postby Victor Sullivan on Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:58 pm

ender516 wrote:Yes, it seems logical. Given the fact that objectives can use continents, why not requirements?

My thinking exactly.

-Sully
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Re: Zombie Invasion!- Back From the Dead Version 25 [page 13

Postby ender516 on Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:03 pm

Ha, I found it. Granted, this is perhaps not official, but it will do (and I have other sources in the Foundry that suggest that this is correct).
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=649&t=23382#p2886745:
show: quote from link
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Re: Zombie Invasion!- Back From the Dead Version 24 [page 12

Postby lostatlimbo on Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:10 pm

With your new gameplay, its seems like it would be really easy for someone with hot dice to take you out early in the game. With Feudal War, there are 20 neturals protecting you from the nearest opponent, but if I start out with 10 and the next guy is only 6 territories away. On that note, with so many changes, will the gameplay be reviewed/restamped?
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