[Abandoned] - Zombie Invasion!

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Re: Zombieland- Version 1.2

Postby TaCktiX on Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:27 pm

Not much is left to get this moved forward, just one small edit:

- Change the name of the Tacticians to the Tackticians, because that looks so much more badass.[/imtotallyjokingdonttakemeseriously]
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Re: Zombieland- Version 1.2

Postby natty dread on Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:46 pm

Why not TaCktixians? :)
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Re: Zombieland- Version 1.2

Postby TaCktiX on Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:09 pm

natty_dread wrote:Why not TaCktixians? :)


Because it looks retarded, unfortunately.
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Re: Zombieland- Version 1.2

Postby natty dread on Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:17 pm

Aww... don't be so hard on yourself :D ;)
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Re: Zombieland- Version 1.2

Postby MarshalNey on Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:55 pm

TaCktiX wrote:
natty_dread wrote:Why not TaCktixians? :)


Because it looks retarded, unfortunately.


heee :lol:

btw, I know everyone I haven't posted an update in awhile, been finishing up a 'real-life' project; but I've been slowly making graphical "improvements" to the map that should be out by the middle of next week.
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Re: Zombieland- Version 1.2

Postby natty dread on Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:51 am

And now you get to make gameplay improvements, conrgats :)
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Re: Zombieland- Version 1.2

Postby Memnon on Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:54 am

Want update!!

Need update!!

What's the holdup? :lol:

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Re: Zombieland- Version 1.2

Postby Industrial Helix on Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:33 pm

Memnon wrote:Want update!!

Need update!!

What's the holdup? :lol:

Duffy


I think Marshalney is wrapping up some RL stuff and then he needs to get back to me about how copyright and ownership is going to go for this map. Other than that, nothing is holding this map back.
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Re: Zombieland- Version 1.2

Postby MarshalNey on Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:42 pm

I just got word bacl last night... Top Dog is fine with me holding the copyright. I'll keep his name on as a contributor since this was originally his idea; hopefully he can help me a bit with the graphics workload as well.

And yes, M-non, I promised an update in "the middle of the week". I'll probably just put out what I have and let people give their opinions, since it's going so slowly. Mostly cosmetic stuff, but there are some planned territory changes as well.
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Re: Zombieland- Version 1.2

Postby Industrial Helix on Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:48 am

MarshalNey wrote:I just got word bacl last night... Top Dog is fine with me holding the copyright. I'll keep his name on as a contributor since this was originally his idea; hopefully he can help me a bit with the graphics workload as well.

And yes, M-non, I promised an update in "the middle of the week". I'll probably just put out what I have and let people give their opinions, since it's going so slowly. Mostly cosmetic stuff, but there are some planned territory changes as well.


And that's pretty much what I've been waiting to hear. I'm looking forward to the continued development of this map!
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Re: Zombieland- Version 1.2

Postby b00kw0rm on Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:52 pm

Just realized this finally got moved. It's way better than a lot of the maps in final forge, so I'm glad this is moving along.
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Re: Zombieland- Version 1.2

Postby Industrial Helix on Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:58 pm

b00kw0rm wrote:Just realized this finally got moved. It's way better than a lot of the maps in final forge, so I'm glad this is moving along.


I hope you're not talking about my maps :-s
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Re: Zombieland- Version 1.2

Postby natty dread on Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:20 pm

Industrial Helix wrote:
b00kw0rm wrote:Just realized this finally got moved. It's way better than a lot of the maps in final forge, so I'm glad this is moving along.


I hope you're not talking about my maps :-s


I hope he's not talking about my maps :|
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Re: Zombieland- Version 1.2

Postby b00kw0rm on Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:51 pm

natty_dread wrote:
Industrial Helix wrote:
b00kw0rm wrote:Just realized this finally got moved. It's way better than a lot of the maps in final forge, so I'm glad this is moving along.


I hope you're not talking about my maps :-s


I hope he's not talking about my maps :|


Not talking about either of your maps. :)

If I gave any other hints though I might get hunted down... so no more hints. :-$
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Re: Zombie Invasion- Version 2.0

Postby MarshalNey on Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:51 pm

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Bookworm... although in all honesty I know this map needs a graphical makeover.

Anyway, I've posted an "update", albeit incomplete. But my time is short and my pace is slow, so I figured I'd better put it out there and see what everyone thinks.

Changes:
1) Added perspective to the indoor walls
2) Added some crazy-looking shadows inside of the buildings... not sure if it's a good thing yet. There are still 3 buildings where I've done nothing (except dim the color), so you all can compare and let me know. The Mall and Bank aren't done yet, btw.
3) Added 3 new territories to the center region and renamed it the Redoubt. Also made one of the territories- "Supplies"- open deployment and renamed it "Supply Depot".
4) Added some graphics to the center region, and sharpened up the helicopters.
5) Many minor graphical tweaks and fiddling.

Thanks Helix, Natty, Tactix and everyone for the votes of confidence and support- let the gameplay discussions begin!

P.S. I hope the suspense didn't kill you M-non? ;)
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Re: Zombie Invasion- Version 2.0

Postby natty dread on Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:17 am

Click image to enlarge.
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It's good to post updates in both ends of the thread... ;)
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Re: Zombie Invasion- Version 2.0

Postby 00iCon on Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:24 am

It may seem obvious, but some factions are further from the choppers than others. The Machiavellans must pass 5 terr, whereas The Cruasders and Mad Doctors must only pass one. CCmaps should be as unbiased to the drop as possible.
Also, maybe the starting territory can actually be a decay of -1 since you actually eat, drink etc.
Ps. Redoubt is a really un-obvious name and not immediately recognisable, despite the obvious objective.
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Re: Zombie Invasion- Version 2.0

Postby natty dread on Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:30 am

Not sure about that overpass thing. Why are two of the factions directly connected when none of the others are? I would think this would put these two at a disadvantage...

However if you're still planning to do a mixed drop then the balancing of the factions probably won't matter that much.
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Re: Zombie Invasion- Version 2.0

Postby b00kw0rm on Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:52 am

Is the redoubt troop decay, or normal territory? If it's decay, the drop shouldn't matter as much.
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Re: Zombie Invasion- Version 2.0

Postby MarshalNey on Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:45 pm

00iCon wrote:It may seem obvious, but some factions are further from the choppers than others. The Machiavellans must pass 5 terr, whereas The Cruasders and Mad Doctors must only pass one. CCmaps should be as unbiased to the drop as possible.


While each Faction is a starting point, the map is otherwise open deployment. So, while the Faction buildings have different distances to the center region, that doesn't have any real bearing on how far the players will have to go. The key is to make the map fair on the drop for every player; as for the Factions, I have no interest in making the map symmetrical.

That said, you might have a point about the magnitude of the disparity (although I count 4 from the Armored Car, not 5). The map certainly is structured to encourage players to take over a building, but that isn't the only way to go, particuarly if they pursue the Items. I'll take a harder look at it.

00iCon wrote:Also, maybe the starting territory can actually be a decay of -1 since you actually eat, drink etc.


I see what you're saying, but I'd prefer for the Factions to have an autodeploy rather than a decay, so that they have a better chance at dominating their building the longer they hold the territory. I might reduce the Autodeploy to +1... we'll see.

00iCon wrote:Ps. Redoubt is a really un-obvious name and not immediately recognisable, despite the obvious objective.


Mmmm... oh well. :( I like using different vocabulary, but I had an inkling that "Redoubt" might not go over well. I'm trying to change it from "Helipad" to indicate that it's now a military installation... how about "Outpost"?

natty_dread wrote:Not sure about that overpass thing. Why are two of the factions directly connected when none of the others are? I would think this would put these two at a disadvantage...

However if you're still planning to do a mixed drop then the balancing of the factions probably won't matter that much.


Well, in particular Mr Benn's comment that the map looked similar to Operation Drug War and that it needed to be 'mixed up a little' spurred me to keep things like the Overpass. I tried to make each building unique, and the overpass is part of that- the only way to go from one building to another without wading through the deadly streets...

Anyway, yeah, as with the above comments about 00iCon's post, I'm not really aiming to balance the Faction buildings- I just need to make sure that the bonus values reflect the difficulty of holding a region. Any thoughts about the bonus values? Do they look reasonable?

b00kw0rm wrote:Is the redoubt troop decay, or normal territory? If it's decay, the drop shouldn't matter as much.


I'd like to make it decay, perhaps... but then any player who ended up with those territories would kind of get screwed a bit (although that situation does exist in Dust Bowl). Hmmmm....I was hoping too, though, that with 3 neutral territories needed for victory (two 4's on the Choppers, and one 4 on any Item) that the drop wouldn't be too unfair. You know, I think decay might be a good idea. What does everyone else think?

Btw, I notice you called it the Redoubt. Do you like the name?


Thanks for the quick comments everyone, as always the feedback is extremely helpful.
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Re: Zombie Invasion- Version 2.0

Postby natty dread on Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:40 am

Hmm... I think the overpass thing might fly better if you had another one between 2 other buildings. Say, between People's mob and Watchmen...

As for bonuses. Can you put out some bonus data so I can take a look at it... List each bonus area with number of territories, number of borders to defend and bonus value.
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Re: Zombie Invasion- Version 2.0

Postby MarshalNey on Sat Apr 24, 2010 10:35 am

I took this from my first post and added the border descriptions (which will go on the first post as well).

Bonus region descriptions:
Redoubt (located in the center):
Bonus: +2
Territories: 6
Borders: 4
Neutrals: 2 territories begin as neutral-4
Killer Neutrals: none
Holding the Redoubt counts as 3/4 of victory objective (6 territories out of 8 required)

ALL other bonus regions contain 1/4 of the victory objective (2 out 8 required)
Hospital (located in the middle of the righthand side):
Bonus: +3
Territories: 7
Borders: 3
Neutrals: 1 territory begins as neutral-3
Killer Neutrals: none

Bank (located at top of the lefthand side):
Bonus: +3
Territories: 5
Borders: 3
Neutrals: 1 territory begins as neutral-3
Killer Neutrals: 1 zombie zone separates 1 territory from the rest.

Academy (located at the bottom of the righthand side):
Bonus: +3
Territories: 7
Borders: 2
Neutrals: 1 territory beings as neutral-3
Killer Neutrals: none

Mob HQ (located at the bottom of the lefthand side):
Bonus: +4
Territories: 7
Borders: 4
Neutrals: 1 territory begins as neutral-3
Killer Neutrals: 1 zombie zone separates 1 territory from the rest

Cop HQ (located at the top of the righthand side):
Bonus: +4
Territories: 8
Borders: 2
Neutrals: 1 territory begins as neutral-3
Killer Neutrals: none

Church (located in the middle of the lefthand side):
Bonus: +5
Territories: 9
Borders: 2
Neutrals: 1 territory begins as neutral-3
Killer Neutrals: none

Mall (located in the middle of the top side):
Bonus: +5
Territories: 7
Borders: 5
Neutrals: 1 territory begins as neutral-3
Killer Neutrals: 1 zombie zone separates 3 territories from the rest.

Ghetto (located in the middle of the bottom side):
Bonus: +5
Territories: 7
Borders: 7
Neutrals: 1 territory begins as neutral-3
Killer Neutrals: 1 zombie zone separates 4 territories from the rest.

-----------------------------

Okay, it's a good thing you asked for the borders. I hadn't quite realized that the zombie zones inside the buildings created quite so many borders....

Looking at this, I see that the Ghetto bonus should be way higher, since every one of its territories is vulnerable. Maybe a +7 or +8?

Similarly, maybe the Mall should be a +6 for having 5 borders.

The Hospital should probably be bumped up to +4.

The Cop HQ might benefit from an overpass, indeed... or maybe bumping it down to a +3 bonus.

I've kept the Redout intentionally low, so players won't pursue it for the bonus but rather for its own sake. I'm also seriously considering putting a -1 decay on all of its terts.
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Re: Zombie Invasion- Version 2.0

Postby natty dread on Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:08 am

Here's what I suggest...

Redoubt: 5
Hospital: 4
Bank: 3
Academy: 3
Mob HQ: 5
Cop HQ: 3
Church: 3 or 4
Mall: 6
Ghetto: 7, maybe 8
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Re: Zombie Invasion- Version 2.0

Postby Top Dog on Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:17 pm

Looks good... I like the shadows for the most part, maybe they could be tweaked a bit but I do like 'em...
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Re: Zombie Invasion- Version 2.0

Postby MarshalNey on Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:08 pm

Well, here's an "improved" version, using Natty's suggestions for the bonus areas except for the Redoubt, which I am still keeping undervalued intentionally for reasons mentioned earlier (don't want a victory objective to be too shiny and desireable in its own right)

I'm finding the shadows to look quite obnoxious, I'm trying to soften them up but haven't really found the time (soon hopefully). I'm also planning on adding a couple of "safe zone" territories to the streets on the left side, I've noticed a deficiency there.

Click image to enlarge.
image


Any further thoughts? How about the victory objective, does it look too easy or too hard?
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