Conquer Club

I actually like the legend. I think it looks great! Though I have a feeling that others may not like it as much...

I like the new legend as well. However, the text will not be very easy to read on the small version. I suggested before that all you need to do is, expand the legend out to the edge of the map. You can also make it a little bit taller too.

Also, I love what you have done with the colors. It kinda reminds me of the silk jackets with the brightly colored embroidery that was made in Nam during the war. See if you can google it or something. You will see what I mean, and maybe you might get a cool idea or two.

bump

This map is progressing pretty well and its come a long way, but I do have some issues to throw out there.

1) The whole land invasion of North Vietnam is not correct. The USA never made the massive land invasion that you're depicting here. What I suggest is maybe keeping one boat heading north (to keep the flow of the map) and then throw in an air power option. Put some carriers in the South China Sea that can be attacked by bases in S Vietnam. The carriers can bombard North Vietnam. Do this and I will give you my utmost support to see this map quenched. Nothing bothers me more than inaccurate historical maps, and the land invasion from the south is the only major point.

2) You need a small map. This is important because you need to know as soon as possible whether or not everything will fit on the small map.

Listen to IH. He knows what it takes.

I would also work on the bonus color flow some more and make Ho Chi Minh trail a trail.. Not a land mass.

As for your current poll. Do away with that. Gameplay and graphics will be worked on in their proper forums. All you really need to know is if peeps are interested and they sure appear to be.

Just do what IH sugg'd (small map) and you'll move forward.

Industrial Helix wrote:This map is progressing pretty well and its come a long way, but I do have some issues to throw out there.

1) The whole land invasion of North Vietnam is not correct. The USA never made the massive land invasion that you're depicting here. What I suggest is maybe keeping one boat heading north (to keep the flow of the map) and then throw in an air power option. Put some carriers in the South China Sea that can be attacked by bases in S Vietnam. The carriers can bombard North Vietnam. Do this and I will give you my utmost support to see this map quenched. Nothing bothers me more than inaccurate historical maps, and the land invasion from the south is the only major point.

2) You need a small map. This is important because you need to know as soon as possible whether or not everything will fit on the small map.

if the carriers only bombard then does that mean there is only one assault point via the one boat onto north vietnam?

That's what I'm thinking. The strength of the USA wasn't in land invasions during the war, it was my bombing the hell out of North Vietnam. I imagine that people will be able to make a dive for North Vietnam via the boat if they have to, thus keeping the flow of the map. Perhaps the boat can have an entrance point in the north or the south of N. Vietnam, so two entrance points making it difficult to block up by any player wishing to secure the whole of North Vietnam, and make the boat itself a killer neutral, like 2.

After that, maybe raise the value of the bonuses in N.V. so as to encourage players to grab them despite US airattacks.

Don't you think it's about time you make a design brief?

The Bison King wrote:Don't you think it's about time you make a design brief?

Small map is required first.

Industrial Helix wrote:

The Bison King wrote:Don't you think it's about time you make a design brief?

Small map is required first.

I only had a large version when Pachisi went to Gameplay.

Interesting map idea here, probably the first I've given a look at in about a year.

I didn't read through the whole thread, so please bare any repetitions. Here's my 2 cents (which aren't worth much in this part of the forum, I haven't posted in a long time):
-You don't have to have all the labels for the parts of the map you aren't using (eg. China, Gulf of Thailand, and especially Cambodia). They are taking up space that could be used for better spacing of the territory names.

-Take some liberties with the space you have. You have the two flags in the background, but a)I don't think most people would even know the difference and b)you could incorporate that elsewhere(I'll talk about that below). That being said, why don't you fatten up Vietnam a little bit. Although it is noticeable, I think it would help the development of the map greatly.

-The Legend: It could be bigger, see my above comment about taking out the flags, and this can be accomplished easily. Rather than having all those lines point to the bonus areas, just color them and leave the bonus number in those regions. I would recommend taking out the briefing stuff, it can be moved to another area (I'll discuss below). By taking out the briefing information, you can then list the bonus regions in whatever order you like (I would do north-south, in the same direction as the map). The region titles would be colored to match the bonuses on the minimap, and you can even include the bonus next to the region titles.

-Map Title: As I said earlier, I didn't read through the whole thread, but I did notice others mention this as well. The whole "Vietnam War" thing isn't really politically correct, and because of the circumstances of the United States' somewhat embarrassment there, it isn't mentioned as such. Titles like the Vietnam Conflict would be better suited. In respect to the use of the flags in the background of your map, I think it would be well suited to be incorporated into the title, with each being behind half of the title. You could also include a byline to your title, like "The Cold War in Southeast Asia: South Vietnam/USA (with the yellow w/ 3 red stripes flag) v Vietcong/Reds (with the red/yellow star flag behind it). Even under this, I would include the briefing info. Some good examples of how to use this space include Arms Race, Operation Drug War, and Oasis. Check them out.

-Territories: I think there are too many, but that's completely up to you, and I'm no pro on balanced gameplay, so you can sort that out on your own. As for the names, I think that you should at least spell out what the abbreviations are for somewhere on the map (maybe in the title, legend, etc).

-Chokepoints are difficult to assess in this game, because I understand the importance of maintaining accuracy. Possible solutions include having an extra attacking space somewhere called "agent orange" or something similar that could attack certain northern territories.

-The two map pull-outs or whatever are decent, although they suffer somewhat from cramping. Maybe if you look into reducing some of the territs in those 2 areas in conjunction with the stretching of the map of Vietnam, you can fix that. Another way to adjust that would be to crop out more of the territs in the box that aren't attackable in the box (in the southern box, you would crop out the bottom left territs and just leave the bridges or something like that) Again, i think that being creative with the space and stretching out some areas may be of benefit if you decide to keep those boxes.

-Lastly, graphics: I think the map itself looks pretty good, although there are a few issues that aren't super important I'd like to bring up. I think it is obvious that the impassable areas will need to be improved upon, even if the rest of the map (at least the territs) remains the same. Is the map you used your own? If it isn't, I dunno if it is a problem, although you should ask someone, because I think the works need to be all on your own. The positions of the territories and where they are cut off I'm sure has been looked into, and they are perfectly fine, but you need to make sure you make the lines between bordering territories very clear. You need to figure out a better way of putting in the territory names as well, there are some areas that left me confused as to what went where. Lastly, I think it needs to be thematically matching. The current legend, the font on the territories, the font on the map itself, and the font in the title all look different, and they should be similar (IMHO).

That's all I got for you. Again, you don't have to take any of this into account if you don't want to, I haven't really reviewed maps for a while.

I might not be back here to post for a while, but good luck in the meantime, and I think you have a really good map in the works here. I personally didn't see myself spending this much time in reviewing a map, but yours is on a subject CC hasn't really done and that I'm fairly interested in. Keep it up.

Victor Sullivan wrote:

Industrial Helix wrote:

The Bison King wrote:Don't you think it's about time you make a design brief?

Small map is required first.

I only had a large version when Pachisi went to Gameplay.

I think on your draft I was sufficiently convinced that the numbers would fit. I'm worried about this one, I'm not sure its going to work.

so HCMT has 1 entry point, can break 3 bonuses without risk and still has a bonus of 2? It would be the most hotly contested area i feel. it would be the oceania of vietnam.
EDIT: also operation 34A. :S maybe you should make them bombard each other's entry point.

Current Version

v5.0
-title changed
-flag background now showing
-year changed to 1972 and text moved
-uniform territory titles (white with black outline) now
-non playable area titles ditched
-HCMT
--2 territories scrapped
--bonus changed from uniform number to number per number of territories
--graphic changed from brown mass to flowing red with arrows
-operation 34a scrapped
-operation linebacker 2
--3 bombers bombarding 3 north vietnam territories
--aircraft carrier connecting bombers
--2 landing craft kept for flow of map
-legend changed from single rectangle to more spacious various screens from the side like a computer screen
--hanoi and saigon are now autodeploy of 1
--linebacker, HCMT and impassables separate screens from bonus info
--titles of screens on side
--2 redundant titles to fill space and show that not all screens need to be used (like a computer)
-glow around country discarded


please comment on this revival, in this version alone i have created the small map (the large version can be done later), showed that all text can be readable on the small map and all 888s fittable, created linebacker 2 instead of operation 34a, changed the title now doesnt have war in it (and struggle is very politically correct), made more space for the legends, made the trail more flowing instead of something looking like waste products of the digestive system, and made the territory titles more uniform. the title took me ages i hope i dont have to change it again

the title took me ages i hope i dont have to change it again

Guess again

This map needs more size. You should apply for a supersize map and make it slightly larger so that you can fit all the army numbers and territory names properly.

Also, what graphics software were you using again? There's lots of pixelation going on...

I can't help but think that this map looks similar to the existing Indochina map... but there's one hell of a lot going on here that it's hard to make sense of from a quick glance

natty_dread wrote:

the title took me ages i hope i dont have to change it again

Guess again

This map needs more size. You should apply for a supersize map and make it slightly larger so that you can fit all the army numbers and territory names properly.

Also, what graphics software were you using again? There's lots of pixelation going on...

gimp

can this please be moved to drafting room?

kengyin wrote:gimp

Ok, then I have to wonder what you're doing wrong... How are you creating all that pixelation, when GIMP offers you selection tools that support feathered selections and using alpha channels for selections...

Do you use the latest version of GIMP? 2.6?

yeah well the pixelation enhances the kind of clunky computer screen text effect (a military one like the ones in movies), you know those ones where theres the green screen and a radar on the side and the text types out and all the text is clunky and straight with no curves. thats kind of the effect i was going for

kengyin wrote:yeah well the pixelation enhances the kind of clunky computer screen text effect (a military one like the ones in movies), you know those ones where theres the green screen and a radar on the side and the text types out and all the text is clunky and straight with no curves. thats kind of the effect i was going for

Ok, no. Forget that, pixelation looks bad.

Drafting Room...?

natty_dread wrote:

kengyin wrote:yeah well the pixelation enhances the kind of clunky computer screen text effect (a military one like the ones in movies), you know those ones where theres the green screen and a radar on the side and the text types out and all the text is clunky and straight with no curves. thats kind of the effect i was going for

Ok, no. Forget that, pixelation looks bad.

isn't that a graphics concern anyway, i mean theres no rush to find a solution right now. how about gameplay comments?

Hi kengyin,

I was half-way through posting how I didn't understand how the HCMT territories could have bonuses for holding 4+ of them, when it had 3 territories as killer neutrals. Then I realized that they were part of the red 'continent'. I think you should make that more clear, as well as noting what HCMT stands for at all.

Graphics issue, I know, but it's all I got. I like the gameplay as is. How about starting positions - are all territories occupied by players from the start? Again, sorry if this had been brought up in the 8 last pages, guess I'm lazy like that.

Riskismy wrote:Hi kengyin,

I was half-way through posting how I didn't understand how the HCMT territories could have bonuses for holding 4+ of them, when it had 3 territories as killer neutrals. Then I realized that they were part of the red 'continent'. I think you should make that more clear, as well as noting what HCMT stands for at all.

Graphics issue, I know, but it's all I got. I like the gameplay as is. How about starting positions - are all territories occupied by players from the start? Again, sorry if this had been brought up in the 8 last pages, guess I'm lazy like that.

huh? you were actually right at the start, i made a blunder, it is extra troops per territory it isnt a regular bonus region. so a correction is that those territories start as neutrals and have decay of 2.

territory numbers

-8 northeast
-5 northwest
-7 red river delta
-1 hanoi
-5 north central coast
--26 north vietnam subtotal
-7 south central coast
-6 central highlands
-5 southeast
-1 saigon
-9 mekong river delta
--28 south vietnam subtotal
-6 ho chi minh trail
-1 aircraft carrier
-3 bombers
-2 landing craft
--12 non vietnam subtotal
---66 total territories

starting neutrals
HCMT3
HCMT4
HCMT6
hanoi
saigon
LC1
LC2

59 regular starting territories (a golden number)