[Abandoned] Tokyo

Abandoned and Vacationed maps. The final resting place, unless you recycle.

Moderators: Cartographers, Global Moderators

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

Re: Tokyo

Postby shakeycat on Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:54 am

Yes - it's a typo, and I'll fix it.

I left out the west because I didn't see much of interest there. It looks like beyond Central and Old Tokyo, it's just a whole lot of suburbs with unfamiliar names - to the average CC user, who is likely not from Japan and would approach the city as a tourist. I figured it'd be better to focus on the heart, than to expand the map to a complete accurate portrayal of all of Tokyo, and leave the heart to a few token territories. It's why Ota is missing too - it simply didn't fit once I zoomed in, and didn't seem important.

I actually started drawing up Osaka a few years ago, but kept getting caught up in the suburbs and trying to fit more and more in. I had so many train lines heading to Kobe, Kyoto, and Nara, that the loop around that city's heart was tiny and insignificant.

Nerima and Itabashi aren't unplayable, I just coloured them grey for now because they perplex me. They should actually be green. I need a bonus scheme that accounts for the grey and green as a single group. Grey was probably a bad colour to choose, in this case.

Hopefully I can find some time soon to clear the map up a bit.
Current Map Project: Tokyo
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class shakeycat
 
Posts: 389
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 5:13 am
Location: Vancouver
Medals: 34
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (6)
Map Contribution (2) General Contribution (1)

Re: Tokyo

Postby Bruceswar on Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:15 am

Still going with this one? Looks nice so far!
Highest Rank: 26 Highest Score: 3480
Image
User avatar
Major Bruceswar
 
Posts: 9506
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:36 am
Location: Cow Pastures
Medals: 140
Monthly Leader Bronze (1) Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (4) Triples Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (4)
Terminator Achievement (3) Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (4) Polymorphic Achievement (1)
Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (3)
Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (4) Beta Map Achievement (1) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Achievement (14) General Achievement (14) Clan Achievement (18) Training Achievement (6) Map Contribution (1)

Re: Tokyo

Postby Industrial Helix on Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:19 pm

I hope this map continues as well...
Sketchblog [Update 07/25/11]: http://indyhelixsketch.blogspot.com/
Living in Japan [Update 07/17/11]: http://mirrorcountryih.blogspot.com/
Russian Revolution map for ConquerClub [07/20/11]: viewtopic.php?f=241&t=116575
User avatar
Cook Industrial Helix
 
Posts: 3469
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:49 pm
Location: California
Medals: 36
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (3)
Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (1)
Training Achievement (1) Map Contribution (5) Tournament Contribution (1) General Contribution (3)

Re: Tokyo

Postby shakeycat on Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:30 am

Click image to enlarge.
image


Little by little ..

Not sure how exactly do show that Meiji Shrine, Thunder Gate, Asahi Beer Hall, Imperial Palace, etc. are within the park or territory. Put a circle in as in "this is territory within territory".
Current Map Project: Tokyo
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class shakeycat
 
Posts: 389
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 5:13 am
Location: Vancouver
Medals: 34
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (6)
Map Contribution (2) General Contribution (1)

Re: Tokyo

Postby Industrial Helix on Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:21 am

I think that the icons are big enough where you can fit the numbers right on them.
Sketchblog [Update 07/25/11]: http://indyhelixsketch.blogspot.com/
Living in Japan [Update 07/17/11]: http://mirrorcountryih.blogspot.com/
Russian Revolution map for ConquerClub [07/20/11]: viewtopic.php?f=241&t=116575
User avatar
Cook Industrial Helix
 
Posts: 3469
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:49 pm
Location: California
Medals: 36
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (3)
Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (1)
Training Achievement (1) Map Contribution (5) Tournament Contribution (1) General Contribution (3)

Re: Tokyo

Postby shakeycat on Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:51 pm

True. It's not like we typically get 88 or 888 troops ;)
Current Map Project: Tokyo
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class shakeycat
 
Posts: 389
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 5:13 am
Location: Vancouver
Medals: 34
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (6)
Map Contribution (2) General Contribution (1)

Re: Tokyo

Postby isaiah40 on Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:20 pm

shakeycat wrote:Not sure how exactly do show that Meiji Shrine, Thunder Gate, Asahi Beer Hall, Imperial Palace, etc. are within the park or territory. Put a circle in as in "this is territory within territory".


They look like they are in the parks to me.

I think I see a little resemblance of your Puget Sound map in this :) The legend background color needs to be a little lighter I think. The maroon text on the left is a tad hard to read, and will probably not be able to read for our color blind folks.
ImageImage
show: High Score
User avatar
Lieutenant isaiah40
 
Posts: 3957
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:14 pm
Location: To be absent from the body is to be present with Christ
Medals: 36
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1)
Cross-Map Achievement (2) Ratings Achievement (2) General Achievement (4) Map Contribution (5) General Contribution (6)

Re: Tokyo

Postby natty dread on Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:39 pm

isaiah40 wrote:I think I see a little resemblance of your Puget Sound map in this :)


Puget sound is tisha's ;)
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class natty dread
 
Posts: 13253
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:58 pm
Location: fucked off
Medals: 49
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (3) General Achievement (12) Map Contribution (12) General Contribution (7)

Re: Tokyo

Postby isaiah40 on Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:33 pm

natty_dread wrote:
isaiah40 wrote:I think I see a little resemblance of your Puget Sound map in this :)


Puget sound is tisha's ;)


Well duh :oops: long day.
User avatar
Lieutenant isaiah40
 
Posts: 3957
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:14 pm
Location: To be absent from the body is to be present with Christ
Medals: 36
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1)
Cross-Map Achievement (2) Ratings Achievement (2) General Achievement (4) Map Contribution (5) General Contribution (6)

Re: Tokyo

Postby thenobodies80 on Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:44 am

Image

Give every man your ear, but few thy voice. Take each man's censure, but reserve thy judgment.
show
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class thenobodies80
Foundry Foreman
Foundry Foreman
 
Posts: 5637
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:30 am
Medals: 70
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Bot Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
General Achievement (8) Map Contribution (7) Tournament Contribution (6) General Contribution (17)

Re: Tokyo

Postby shakeycat on Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:18 pm

isaiah40 wrote:
natty_dread wrote:
isaiah40 wrote:I think I see a little resemblance of your Puget Sound map in this :)


Puget sound is tisha's ;)


Well duh :oops: long day.


Hard to tell apart, women are ;)

In the parks - great.

Noted on the colours. I see in the vischeck that the green and yellow areas all appear in the same colour set, so I will absolutely be changing those colours.
Current Map Project: Tokyo
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class shakeycat
 
Posts: 389
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 5:13 am
Location: Vancouver
Medals: 34
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (6)
Map Contribution (2) General Contribution (1)

Re: Tokyo

Postby MarshalNey on Mon May 23, 2011 1:12 am

I've got quite a few comments to share on this map (and like Evil D's maps, I'm aware and apologize for the delayed review). I'll post them tomorrow. I will say here, however, that the one thing that strikes me after analyzing this map was that in all games except 7 or 8 players, each player is guaranteed at least one bonus to start with... which is kind of different, and may not be a bad idea if structured properly.

-- Marshal Ney
User avatar
Captain MarshalNey
 
Posts: 857
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:02 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO
Medals: 34
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (4) General Contribution (5)

Re: Tokyo

Postby MarshalNey on Tue May 24, 2011 12:55 am

Okay here's my count on the map breakdown, correct me if I'm in error:
    23 Suburban regions
    26 Old Tokyo regions
    30 Central Tokyo regions
These give a +1 bonus for every 5 regions of the same type.

There are 9 landmarks, some of which appear to be a part of a bonus area and some which are possibly not.
Hold any 3 for a +2 bonus.

I'm counting 88 total deployable regions (these do not count the neutral parks). If this is correct, then:
    2 or 3 player games deploy 29 to each player, with 1 neutral
    4 player games deploy 22 to each player
    5 player games deploy 17 to each player, with 3 neutral
    6 player games deploy 14 to each player, with 4 neutral
    7 player games deploy 12 to each player, with 4 neutral
    8 player games deploy 11 to each player

Furthermore, with the bonus structures as they currently stand,
    a deployment of 25 or more regions guarantees at least 3 bonuses of some kind
    a deployment of 20 or more regions guarantees at least 2 bonuses of some kind
    a deployment of 15 or more regions guarantees at least 1 bonus of some kind

Combining the two lists, this means that in 2- or 3-player games, each player will drop at least 3 bonuses; in 4-player games they will drop at least 2 bonuses; and in 5-player games, each player will drop at least 1 bonus. For 6 players, the odds are very high but not guaranteed for dropping a bonus.

In addition, there are many small bonus areas that consist of 2 or 3 regions. They appear to be Katsushika, Setagaya, Kita, Arakawa, Sumida, and Shinagawa. All of them except the last give a +1 bonus (Shinagawa gives +2).

Incidentally, some of this information (if accurate anyway; if inaccurate please correct it for me) should make its way on to the First Post when feasible.

.....................

OK, my thoughts on this map...

I'm liking the undercurrent I'm seeing in this map, which is fast, intense gameplay despite being a large (~100 region) map. It's hard for me to get thrilled about city maps anymore as there are quite few on CC, but this one looks well deserving of a draft stamp.

Although many times we gameplay CAs are fighting to eliminate bonuses on the drop, it's really the possibility for a gross imbalance between sides that we're trying to avoid. So dropping a bonus could theoretically work for a map, if the drops were relatively fair all around. This map seems to be aiming for such a goal in its present form.

If you intend for the overall gameplay to follow this idea, it probably won't be easy but it would lend a bit of uniqueness that may make the effort worthwhile. If the ubiquitous bonus-dropping is simply accidental, then perhaps we can look at how to restructure the bonuses or use some well-placed neutrals.

If you're following the Bonus Drop idea may I suggest:
    (1) Consider lowering the bonus for the Landmarks from +2 for 3 to +1 for 3
    (2) Perhaps raise the build-a-bonus to +1 for 4 regions of the same type, so that even 8 players games will involve dropping a bonus. This would however make the randomness in the drop more volatile, but it's something to consider.
    (3) For flavor, maybe refer to the +1 for 5 (or 4) regions as a "population bonus" perhaps, something to give support to the idea of dropping bonuses (like the high population density and strong culture of the city)

If you're leaning toward a No-Bonus Drop idea may I suggest:
    (1) Keeping the +1 for 5 region bonus, except that it gets "activated" only when a player holds a type of region that starts neutral. Napoleonic Europe and the 2nd Indo-China War (currently in Graphics) are examples of this. An ideal type of region that already exists on the map are the parks, but I'm not sure how much sense it makes (I guess I can see it, if we're talking holding a park to activate a "culture bonus") Another type of region that works much better thematically would be the Landmark, which brings me to...
    (2) Make the Landmarks neutral. Keep the +2 for 3 bonus, and possibly make it so that they 'activate' the build-a-bonus of +1 for 5 regions.

For either idea, I suggest:
(1) Looking hard at all of those 2- and 3-region bonus areas, particularly Shinagawa which should probably be only a +1 bonus for 3. Can some of them be consolidated into larger bonus areas? If not, they probably need at least 1 neutral in them, or an added region or two.

Finally, some graphical and clarity concerns:
    (1) The Landmarks are unclear in many ways, although they do look very nice and I think they lend a good supporting element to the map. It's just that the connections with other regions are hard to discern in some cases (like the Fuji TV Station for instance) and their status as a part of a bonus area (or counting toward the build-a-bonus) or not is uncertain. For example are Tokyo U and the Tokyo Dome part of their bonus area, while some of the other landmarks are not?
    (2) The colors get duplicated for bonus areas within the same build-a-bonus area; although they are separated from each other and so avoids some confusion, if possible some difference in color would be handy. I know that there are only so many discernible shades of yellow, green or electric purple, but I'm just asking that the duplicated colors be kept to a minimum.
    (3) Finally, the dark green areas of the Suburbs are a mystery to me. There are a lot of 1-region names but no listed bonus for them... do they only contribute to the build-a-bonus? If so, that should be noted somewhere on the first post and eventually the legend.

Hope this helps, and I know that it's a lot and that you may need some time to get an update going and such. I'm eager to see how this map turns out :)

-- Marshal Ney
User avatar
Captain MarshalNey
 
Posts: 857
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:02 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO
Medals: 34
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (4) General Contribution (5)

Re: Tokyo

Postby shakeycat on Tue May 24, 2011 4:44 pm

Thank you Marshal!

About the graphical/clarity ..
1. I agree that the landmarks are inconsistent. Will fix. Fuji TV is supposed to be in Odaiba, will move it so it is clearer. Tokyo U and Tokyo Dome seem to be the only things going on in their respective areas of the city, which is why they aren't within another territory. Of course, the "why" doesn't quite explain "how" I'm going to fix this ;)
2. The colours as they stand are actually colourblind unfriendly (green and yellow are same), so they will change. Understood on keeping duplicates to a minimum.
3. The dark green areas - these are wards which are part of the build-a-bonus, but do not have their own bonuses. The ones near Nakano are all a little awkward, shoved up against the side of the map like that (will have to stretch Suginami out a bit more), but others like Adachi and Edogawa are strategically placed, so I didn't feel right just greying them all out. Plus I wanted to represent as many wards as I could - I think I'm just one short, something below Shinagawa. Nakano I'll look again and see if I can divide somehow. Will make note in legend of these outlying suburban wards.

As for Bonus drops or no-bonus drops - this is going to take a little more digestion :)
Current Map Project: Tokyo
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class shakeycat
 
Posts: 389
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 5:13 am
Location: Vancouver
Medals: 34
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (6)
Map Contribution (2) General Contribution (1)

Re: Tokyo

Postby MarshalNey on Fri May 27, 2011 4:29 am

shakeycat wrote:Thank you Marshal!

About the graphical/clarity ..
1. I agree that the landmarks are inconsistent. Will fix. Fuji TV is supposed to be in Odaiba, will move it so it is clearer. Tokyo U and Tokyo Dome seem to be the only things going on in their respective areas of the city, which is why they aren't within another territory. Of course, the "why" doesn't quite explain "how" I'm going to fix this ;)
2. The colours as they stand are actually colourblind unfriendly (green and yellow are same), so they will change. Understood on keeping duplicates to a minimum.
3. The dark green areas - these are wards which are part of the build-a-bonus, but do not have their own bonuses. The ones near Nakano are all a little awkward, shoved up against the side of the map like that (will have to stretch Suginami out a bit more), but others like Adachi and Edogawa are strategically placed, so I didn't feel right just greying them all out. Plus I wanted to represent as many wards as I could - I think I'm just one short, something below Shinagawa. Nakano I'll look again and see if I can divide somehow. Will make note in legend of these outlying suburban wards.

As for Bonus drops or no-bonus drops - this is going to take a little more digestion :)


(1) Cool
(2) Gotcha
(3) Ah, good to know that's what they meant. I don't think it's awkward except that the legend needs to state that they are not part of any bonus "area" (although that wording could be misinterpreted... hmmm... maybe state that they are only part of the build-a-bonus). Anyway, don't grey them out, I think they serve a useful purpose... I just needed clarity in their gameplay function.

Other than that, digest as slowly as needed :)

-- Marshal Ney
User avatar
Captain MarshalNey
 
Posts: 857
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:02 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO
Medals: 34
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (4) General Contribution (5)

PreviousNext

Return to Recycling Box

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Login