Baltic States [3/10] V33 P34 Beta Time??

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Re: Baltic States: [13 Aug 2011] v11 Pg 10 Which one?

Postby Bruceswar on Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:00 am

I will have an update in a few days max.
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Re: Baltic States: [25 OCT 2011] v12 Pg 10 Which one?

Postby Bruceswar on Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:18 am

Click image to enlarge.
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Changes:

Added Army numbers
Added neutral 3 to make sure nobody drops the island bonus.
Added Impassable in Estonia to balance out the play some there.
New Impassable for the Mountains
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Re: Baltic States: [11 Jul 2011] v8 Pg 8 New Look!

Postby iancanton on Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:00 am

iancanton wrote:
Bruceswar wrote:
iancanton wrote:west estonia and islands estonia can be combined usefully, for example, to form a proper continent in the classic sense. islands estonia especially ought to be eliminated as a stand-alone bonus because of its small size and isolated location.

Sorry I missed responding to you. I just want to mention I really happen to like that there is a bunch of bonuses. It leads to many different ways to win this map given different drops.

no worries, bruce. having a 2-region bonus in a corner of the map doesn't lead to many ways to win though. it simply ensures that this is the best part of the map to secure in the early stages and gives a consistent advantage to the one who has a good drop there (like classic oceania). with six 3-region and 4-region bonuses, which is already an extreme number, a tiny 2-region bonus in addition makes no sense at all.

my previous comments on the undesirability of a 2-region islands bonus still stand, bruce! this is especially because this bonus is in the corner. if u feel that u really must have a 2-region bonus, then split the central latvia bonus, which i see anyone with any sense avoiding, and merge west estonia with islands estonia.

ian. :)
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Re: Baltic States: [25 OCT 2011] v12 Pg 13 Bonus Structure

Postby Bruceswar on Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:46 am

Any more thoughts on what Ian says?? What if I dropped it down to a 1 with a neutral 2?
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Re: Baltic States: [25 OCT 2011] v12 Pg 13 Bonus Structure

Postby natty dread on Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:52 am

Seems feasible to me. A lot of maps have 2, even 1 territory bonuses, and if the bonus is low enough and there's no chance of dropping it, I don't see how having a 2-territory bonus would be a fundamentally bad idea.
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Re: Baltic States: [25 OCT 2011] v12 Pg 13 Bonus Structure

Postby Bruceswar on Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:57 am

natty_dread wrote:Seems feasible to me. A lot of maps have 2, even 1 territory bonuses, and if the bonus is low enough and there's no chance of dropping it, I don't see how having a 2-territory bonus would be a fundamentally bad idea.



That was my first thought also. Most people are not going to fight neutrals with a large chance to get broken.
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Re: Baltic States: [25 OCT 2011] v12 Pg 13 Bonus Structure

Postby TaCktiX on Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:10 am

I agree with ian's concern. With it being a corner bonus, it'll be a total shoe-in +2 for anyone who decided to focus on that corner. In the early game it'll be hard to hold, but by the mid-game it might very well be the Most Effective Bonus.
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Re: Baltic States: [25 OCT 2011] v12 Pg 13 Bonus Structure

Postby Bruceswar on Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:04 am

TaCktiX wrote:I agree with ian's concern. With it being a corner bonus, it'll be a total shoe-in +2 for anyone who decided to focus on that corner. In the early game it'll be hard to hold, but by the mid-game it might very well be the Most Effective Bonus.



So then would dropping it to a plus 1 rather than 2 help? Making it a neutral 2 also instead of 3.
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Re: Baltic States: [25 OCT 2011] v12 Pg 13 Bonus Structure

Postby TaCktiX on Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:18 am

That sounds fair, and it's not a limiter seeing as that bonus can be expanded out of in two directions (unlike certain Classic bonuses *coughaustraliacough*).
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Re: Baltic States: [25 OCT 2011] v12 Pg 13 Bonus Structure

Postby iancanton on Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:20 pm

if u do this, then it'll be a mistake to drop the neutral to 2. keep it at 3 because it'll still be the easiest bonus to take in most 1v1 games, since most other bonuses will have at least one region with 3 random neutral troops.

u really need to do something about making the latvian bonuses easier, especially in the west. the winning strategies available are currently limited to variations of starting at the extremities and working inward.

ian. :)
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Re: Baltic States: [25 OCT 2011] v12 Pg 13 Bonus Structure

Postby laughingcavalier on Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:23 pm

Minor point: you have named the island Saaremaa after its capital Kuressaare - is that intentional?
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Re: Baltic States: [25 OCT 2011] v12 Pg 13 Bonus Structure

Postby Bruceswar on Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:51 am

laughingcavalier wrote:Minor point: you have named the island Saaremaa after its capital Kuressaare - is that intentional?



Not following you here?
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Re: Baltic States: [25 OCT 2011] v12 Pg 13 Bonus Structure

Postby Victor Sullivan on Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:51 pm

Bruceswar wrote:
laughingcavalier wrote:Minor point: you have named the island Saaremaa after its capital Kuressaare - is that intentional?



Not following you here?

I think he means you should change it to the name of the island, not the name of the capital.

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Re: Baltic States: [11 Jul 2011] v8 Pg 8 New Look!

Postby isaiah40 on Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:12 pm

iancanton wrote:my previous comments on the undesirability of a 2-region islands bonus still stand, bruce! this is especially because this bonus is in the corner. if u feel that u really must have a 2-region bonus, then split the central latvia bonus, which i see anyone with any sense avoiding, and merge west estonia with islands estonia.

ian. :)


This I agree with. You can split Central Latvia at Cesis/Ogre and call them North/South Central Latvia. You could also switch Jelgava from West Latvia to South Central Latvia. As for the bonus values, both North and South Latvia could be +4, and West Latvia can remain at +4 as it will have the same number of bordering territories.
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Re: Baltic States: [11 Jul 2011] v8 Pg 8 New Look!

Postby thenobodies80 on Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:48 am

isaiah40 wrote: You can split Central Latvia at Cesis/Ogre and call them North/South Central Latvia. You could also switch Jelgava from West Latvia to South Central Latvia. As for the bonus values, both North and South Latvia could be +4, and West Latvia can remain at +4 as it will have the same number of bordering territories.


I totally support what isaiah is saying. Currently Central Latvia looks like a no-man land. Have two smaller regions could help to have the players to stay in the middle of the map instead to run away to find a safe place in the edges of the map.
Also agree with iancanton about the possibility to remove the Island estonia bonus, merging it with west estonia (if you do it the value can be +4). But if you're not going to merge it I suggest to reduce west estonia to +3, it looks similar to SE estonia and the island looks and easy expansion if you already have the west part of estonia. Btw saying this I assume Rapla doesn't border with Paide, although if I look at the map those regions have a connection point.
Again, if you're not going to merge the island, maybe W latvia could be worth a +5 instead of a +4, not totally a central bonus, but I wouldn't go for that bonus if not necessary as it is now.
Finally I see the W lithuania as a +3, but also +2 doesn't look a so bad number.

I have some graphical comments but I'll leave them for when you reach the graphics stage. ;)

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