[Abandoned] Death Race: Mojave

by **grifftron** on Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:01 pm

so... is this just gonna sit here forever or...?

can a mod at least post and tell us what we need to do? never seen the process this slow before.

by **isaiah40** on Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:03 pm

grifftron wrote:so... is this just gonna sit here forever or...?

can a mod at least post and tell us what we need to do? never seen the process this slow before.

Have patience, Helix is still getting into the swing of things again!

by **Industrial Helix** on Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:44 pm

Well, just to let you know what's up... I included the map in the Map Surveyor bulletin in hopes that it might garner some support and more in depth analysis of the game play and graphics. N ot too long, I hope.

by **grifftron** on Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:47 am

Industrial Helix wrote:Well, just to let you know what's up... I included the map in the Map Surveyor bulletin in hopes that it might garner some support and more in depth analysis of the game play and graphics. N ot too long, I hope.

OK... i thought that was what the next stations were for?

by **natty dread** on Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:58 am

Ok, here's what I think. Graphics first... All in all, I really like the graphical style you're going for here. Nice job. However there's several things I have to bitch about.

Firstly, you could use a bit more consistent style, something to bring it all together.

So you're going for a gritty, grungy look, which is appropriate for the theme. You have nice use of textures, although a bit different from what I would do... But then you have some stuff what doesn't seem to fit in, that looks like it doesn't belong... like the thick dotted lines for territory borders, the clean white elliptical borders, and the clean black lines for impassables (eg. in the towers & catwalks).

For the first two, I'd suggest making them look more like they blend in to the ground texture, maybe like they're lines drawn in sand, but in a way that they're still clear enough as borders. For the impassables, I'd suggest making them pop out more, make them look like walls from bird perspective. Concrete prison walls, with cracks and dirt... that'd look good.

The same issue is with the towers btw, they don't quite look like they are elevated from the level of the track, like towers should be... I'd suggest doing someting to them to make them look higher.

The legend could be better differentiated from the playable area.

You also seem to have two many different styles of fonts on the map, it looks a bit jarring. Maybe you could change the signatures to use the same font?

Ok so that's all I have on graphics right now.

As for the gameplay... this is a bit tricky. I'm having kind of a hard time trying to visualize how a typical game would play out. Is the Warden the only way to assault the pit cars or can they be assaulted otherwise?

About to holding cells, do the cells & guards in them connect to each other?

One thing that kinda worries me is, it seems if you only have track territories, you can't win the game, if your opponent has territories elsewhere... You can't get from the track to the other areas. I don't know if this is a feature or a bug, but there's always loads of complaints from players when they get into a situation where they can't win and have to just wait for the game to end... see Poland, Baseball for examples.

by **tec805** on Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:58 pm

Thank you Natty for taking the time to look this over and leave your feedback, a well thought out post.

natty_dread wrote:Ok, here's what I think. Graphics first... All in all, I really like the graphical style you're going for here. Nice job. However there's several things I have to bitch about.

Firstly, you could use a bit more consistent style, something to bring it all together.

So you're going for a gritty, grungy look, which is appropriate for the theme. You have nice use of textures, although a bit different from what I would do... But then you have some stuff what doesn't seem to fit in, that looks like it doesn't belong... like the thick dotted lines for territory borders, the clean white elliptical borders, and the clean black lines for impassables (eg. in the towers & catwalks).

For the first two, I'd suggest making them look more like they blend in to the ground texture, maybe like they're lines drawn in sand, but in a way that they're still clear enough as borders. For the impassables, I'd suggest making them pop out more, make them look like walls from bird perspective. Concrete prison walls, with cracks and dirt... that'd look good.

The same issue is with the towers btw, they don't quite look like they are elevated from the level of the track, like towers should be... I'd suggest doing someting to them to make them look higher.

The legend could be better differentiated from the playable area.

You also seem to have two many different styles of fonts on the map, it looks a bit jarring. Maybe you could change the signatures to use the same font?

Ok so that's all I have on graphics right now.

All good points, if we get to move the map forward the graphics will be addressed.

As for the gameplay... this is a bit tricky. I'm having kind of a hard time trying to visualize how a typical game would play out. Is the Warden the only way to assault the pit cars or can they be assaulted otherwise?

Pit Guards can assault pit cars, and vise versa, but with the cars being an autodeploy I thought it best to have a large neutral on the guard to dissuade people from stacking a car then jumping the guard to get someones pit car.

About to holding cells, do the cells & guards in them connect to each other?

"Holding Area guard connects to local cells and adjacent guard towers through tunnels. +2 for Cell Guard and adjacent 4 cells."
I wrote that in the description but not on the map itself. Maybe we should put something like "Cells connect to adjacent guard" in the legend.

One thing that kinda worries me is, it seems if you only have track territories, you can't win the game, if your opponent has territories elsewhere... You can't get from the track to the other areas. I don't know if this is a feature or a bug, but there's always loads of complaints from players when they get into a situation where they can't win and have to just wait for the game to end... see Poland, Baseball for examples.

Just not well thought out. Originally I had thought to make the loss condition losing all track and pit car areas, forcing people to defend their cars and reasoning why not take easy +1 for 2 tracks. Then I figured if nukes were involved or someone goes through the guard and takes a car then someone would be easy pickings on the track. We can't have people able to get to the cars from the track or people would never leave their cars for fear someone would come behind them and steal their car.

Now that you've pointed out the position of being stuck on the track with no way off I agree that needs to be changed. Griff and I will look at what we can do. Suggestions are welcome.

by **Industrial Helix** on Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:48 pm

I'ma stamp this now.

I think you've got the support necessary for this map to go on.

Though I think you need to take some careful consideration as to how player are going to play out on this map. Personally, If I was playing this map I would generally avoid the track and focus my efforts on capturing a tower and using the snipers in case anyone wandered on to the track.

I think that ideally, you want all players racing, you might try a track bonus or nevermind, I just saw there is a track bonus... good thinking.

Without Bob its a bit hard for me to figure out how the tunnels work. I think that if I hold Darren (strange name for a Yakuzajin) I can then attack Sampson who can take me to Chuck, Flora or Clinton or Randy. Correct?

by **tec805** on Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:22 pm

Industrial Helix wrote:I'ma stamp this now.

I think you've got the support necessary for this map to go on.

Though I think you need to take some careful consideration as to how player are going to play out on this map. Personally, If I was playing this map I would generally avoid the track and focus my efforts on capturing a tower and using the snipers in case anyone wandered on to the track.

I think that ideally, you want all players racing, you might try a track bonus or nevermind, I just saw there is a track bonus... good thinking.

Without Bob its a bit hard for me to figure out how the tunnels work. I think that if I hold Darren (strange name for a Yakuzajin) I can then attack Sampson who can take me to Chuck, Flora or Clinton or Randy. Correct?

Thank you for the stamp! =D>

If you hold an inmate in the bottom holding area (Darren, Brand, Anson or Damian) you have to assault the guard (Sampson) to get out of the cell. Once you hold the guard you can attack any of the other inmates or the tunnel guards (Clinton or Randy) in the pit area or the adjacent tower tunnel guards (Flora & Chuck). So yes, you are correct

Many of the names on here have relations to each other, but no one has either noticed or cared to post about it. Shame on you people for not reading enough good books!

by **Industrial Helix** on Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:33 pm

tec805 wrote:Many of the names on here have relations to each other, but no one has either noticed or cared to post about it. Shame on you people for not reading enough good books!

I would just expect a guy in the Yakuza would have a Japanese name... Having neither read the book or seen the movie... would you care to explain some of the names, just to satisfy my own curiosity?

by **tec805** on Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:30 pm

Industrial Helix wrote:
tec805 wrote:Many of the names on here have relations to each other, but no one has either noticed or cared to post about it. Shame on you people for not reading enough good books!

I would just expect a guy in the Yakuza would have a Japanese name... Having neither read the book or seen the movie... would you care to explain some of the names, just to satisfy my own curiosity?

The names aren't from any movie, some are from real people (kids, dogs, friends), one is from an author and some are from a series of fantasy books from many years ago. Reading something from 1970 is a little dated, but still good stuff. Google some of the odd names and you'll find what I'm hinting at. :geek:

by **grifftron** on Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:10 am

Thanks for the stamp Helix.

And thanks natty for the input, you are correct and addressed everything that I myself would like to change as well... I am still having trouble making things mix in and looks like the are all the same theme but I am still new at graphics but am trying my best to do new things I have never done yet graphics wise, wish you guys had skype so you could teach me some of your methods

-griff

by **grifftron** on Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:39 am

I know we will have to redo the graphics on a lot of the map if not all to make things more clearer, but tec and I decided to add two different areas on the track that 1 way attack either Randy or Clinton which will help players not get stuck on the track but have a way off like natty pointed out.

Click image to enlarge.

by **Victor Sullivan** on Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:23 pm

Keep up the good work! No gameplay edits some to mind.

-Sully

by **tec805** on Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:51 pm

Victor Sullivan wrote:Keep up the good work! No gameplay edits come to mind.

Thanks for the words, trying to come up with better graphic ideas from scratch and working out gameplay by ourselves is proving a tall task. Slowly but surely we will post an update and hope for more feedback and suggestions.

by **Victor Sullivan** on Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:54 pm

tec805 wrote:
Victor Sullivan wrote:Keep up the good work! No gameplay edits come to mind.

Thanks for the words, trying to some up with better graphic ideas from scratch and working out gameplay by ourselves is proving a tall task. Slowly but surely we will post an update and hope for more feedback and suggestions.

Sounds groovy

-Sully

by **isaiah40** on Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:40 am

What is the status on a new update??

by **DiM** on Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:07 am

isaiah40 wrote:What is the status on a new update??

why does it matter? the map should have been binned 1 month ago since the last update was 2 months ago.

by **tec805** on Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:59 pm

DiM wrote:
isaiah40 wrote:What is the status on a new update??

why does it matter? the map should have been binned 1 month ago since the last update was 2 months ago.

Yep, until we have a complete re-work of the graphics this should be shelved. Can't do the graphics until gameplay has been hammered out, though it seems the only way to garner interest in the gameplay is to have good graphics.

by **natty dread** on Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:59 pm

tec805 wrote:Can't do the graphics until gameplay has been hammered out

Why not?

You shouldn't confuse the order of the stamps to mean that there are some distinct phases for gameplay and graphics. In truth, gameplay and graphics are developed in tandem, and the stamps only signify that part of the development is (mostly) ready and doesn't need any more attention.

Look at my Eurasia map for example, I just had the gameplay stamp and now it's stickied for gfx stamp, because both were being developed at the same time. And DiM always starts graphics development right from the start.

by **isaiah40** on Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:12 pm

DiM wrote:
isaiah40 wrote:What is the status on a new update??

why does it matter? the map should have been binned 1 month ago since the last update was 2 months ago.

Yes it should be, I got this and another map mixed up. so ...
As requested by the mapmaker, this is being moved into the Recycling Box. Once a new update has been posted, then we can move this back.

by **betiko** on Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:04 am

any advancements here guys?

by **nolefan5311** on Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:50 pm

The six months of vacation for this map has expired and this map will now be labeled as [Abandoned]. If the original mapmaker wants to continue this map project that's fine but an update must provided. From this moment anyone else is free to take this project without the original mapmaker permission, but it has to be started from scratch.