TaCktiX wrote:Certainly a good render of Clue, and lots of potential in it. However, the current instructions are a little confusing, even after figuring out the attack routes.
- Legend boxes are really small / understated and it's sometimes a hide-and-go-seek to find the icons that the legend matches.
TaCktiX wrote:- Do the one-way attacks hit the suspect/weapon directly, or the territory right before it?
TaCktiX wrote:- The "clues in the same room cannot be used to solve the case" is a little bit confusing. I know that means you can't give Mr. Pink, the Pickaxe, the Bedroom, and the Motive for a wild ride, but does that mean Mr. Pink and the Bedroom are incompatible as well? What all applies seems rather nebulous.
TaCktiX wrote:Also, when can we expect a post-Draft stamp version? You're almost at Recycle Bin inactivity-wise.
TaCktiX wrote:Like right now, I can tell you that the values for the separated territories (interrogations, evidence) are sky-high compared to the difficulty of holding them. Sure, it's a fair amount of neutrals, but to win the game EVERYONE is going to be hacking at those. With as few routes into an individual room, eventually someone will lock up all of evidence or interrogation, and have a massive bonus to more or less take Motive and whatever else needed to objective win, if not eliminate people from the crime scene (and the game).
TaCktiX wrote:Also, I would say consider having another way to get into the police station than suspects and weapons. Perhaps some squad cars set at the perimeter of the mansion that hit the main hallway between the interrogation room and the evidence room. The latter two are borderline bottlenecks, and considering their critical role in bonuses and the objective, are begging for imbalance.
Gillipig wrote:This map is sort of a mix between Madness and Operation drug war! I didn't understand it after a brief look. Would suggest you try to make it easier to understand. Otherwise great map and idea!
degaston wrote:Gillipig wrote:This map is sort of a mix between Madness and Operation drug war! I didn't understand it after a brief look. Would suggest you try to make it easier to understand. Otherwise great map and idea!
Could you give a bit more detail about what you did and did not understand? (The objective, the attacks, the bonuses, etc.)
Some maps need very little explanation. They have only linear, two-way attacks, a simple bonus structure, and nothing else in terms of "special rules". This is not one of those maps. It has many non-linear, one-way attacks, a couple of non-linear two-way attacks, a dead end with a decay and a bonus, two separate escalating bonus structures, a losing condition, and a winning objective that combines several different sets of territories, though not all combinations are valid. I wouldn't expect someone to understand it after just a brief look.
This will almost certainly not be a map that appeals to everyone. But there are plenty of maps for those who like something simple and straightforward, and relatively few for people who prefer more complicated gameplay. I haven't looked at every map in detail yet, but the more complicated maps almost always leave me with some unanswered questions that are only explained after playing a couple of games on them. I'll try to make the legend as clear as I can, but it's difficult to explain everything in a small space while trying to do it in a way that fits the theme of the map, so some effort may be required in order to understand it.
Gillipig wrote:The win condition is easy to understand but the bonus system is not very obvious! I don't understand what I have to do to get a bonus!
Would certainly be helpful since enough new things are being done in this map! A little familiarity wouldn't hurt the map!degaston wrote:Gillipig wrote:The win condition is easy to understand but the bonus system is not very obvious! I don't understand what I have to do to get a bonus!
The bonuses are described in the "Backup Officers" section of the legend. (I was trying to stay with the theme, but I could change it back to "Bonuses" if it's not clear enough.) Does that clear things up, or were you not sure how to read the diagrams?
May I suggest a clearer wording of the motive bonus. First I was like but I think that could be avoided if it says -3 autodeploy + 5 bonus. It takes a while to get that otherwise. (auto shouldn't be in bold)degaston wrote:The "Crime Scene" section shows a map that indicates the bonus you get for controlling each of the 8 rooms in the crime scene.
The motive is a special case; It loses three troops on that territory each round, but gives you a bonus of 5 troops to deploy anywhere you want.
degaston wrote:The bonus for the Evidence and Interrogation rooms are determined by how many of those rooms you hold. Hold one evidence room and you get a bonus of 1, hold 5 interrogation rooms for a bonus of 16, etc.
Let me know if you have any ideas for how to make it clearer.
Gillipig wrote: May I suggest a clearer wording of the motive bonus. First I was like but I think that could be avoided if it says -3 autodeploy + 5 bonus. It takes a while to get that otherwise. (auto shouldn't be in bold)
Gillipig wrote:Would certainly be helpful since enough new things are being done in this map! A little familiarity wouldn't hurt the map!
Gillipig wrote:May I suggest a clearer wording of the motive bonus. First I was like but I think that could be avoided if it says -3 autodeploy + 5 bonus. It takes a while to get that otherwise. (auto shouldn't be in bold)
Industrial Helix wrote:The motive: I think you want to say -3 decay, +5 bonus.
Gillipig wrote:If you made the text "Crime scene" and "Conquer club police station" (or just Police station) on your map a little bigger an more prominent maybe it will be easier to understand that that's what they're called and we can draw the connection easier. Also the uppermost part of the map has got nothing to do with bonuses or other important things maybe you could make that text look less important ie (change color, size or font) and the text explaining bonuses look more important.
Gillipig wrote:It's still a mystery to me how police station and crime scene are connected!
degaston wrote:...so I assumed that Decay was the official term for a negative deploy.
TaCktiX wrote:Points made, Mr. degaston. However, you misunderstood my use of main hallway to be the crime scene, instead of the police station (an unnoted hallway, but a hallway nonetheless).
TaCktiX wrote:And I do agree with your viewpoint on the bonuses, so how about this? Since getting more than one is very difficult and less likely, why not a flat bonus per suspect or weapon, instead of a stacking one? That would A: be easier to explain, and B: avoid spiraling-out-of-reach problems entirely. Keep in mind that each room is attackable from more than one direction.
MrBenn wrote:... we recommend working out the gameplay before producing a polished map image... You've shown that you have a good eye for the graphical detail, so put that to one side for now, until the gameplay is sorted out. Instead of the fancy graphics, work on a slightly more basic schematic until the rest is sorted.
koontz1973 wrote:degaston, very glad to see this is still in the works. Not had any visual update for a while but lets hope you get the feed back you wanted. You know my views (all good) but I think it would be easier for me to say which ones I did not vote for.
Give the players a single protected starting position so that it’s more like the board game. (This will cause you no end of grief with gameplay).
Add another territory to each Interrogation room. (No need).
I like the legend theme. I’m smart and can figure things out as long as the information is there. (even though I like it and understand it, not everyone on the site has an IQ over 50).
Things look pretty good the way they are. (If this was true, you would not of started the thread).
MarshalNey wrote:... Personally I'd like to see the neutral values on The Motive lowered as there already is a neutral 8 barrier before it. In fact, with such a high decay (which isn't easy to decipher in the legend wording btw) there hardly seems any need, as holding The Motive will be difficult in any case.
TaCktiX wrote:As someone who's had to deal with big neutrals a LOT in CC games, they're too high.
degaston wrote:TaCktiX wrote:As someone who's had to deal with big neutrals a LOT in CC games, they're too high.
Do you have a suggestion for what you think they should be?
I can lower them, but I thought that these values were comparable to something like Das Schloss. I expect that a typical progression through the map would be from the Crime Scene to Weapons/Evidence, then Suspects/Interrogation and finally The Motive. At each stage, a player would presumably be getting a larger bonus, so having to defeat more neutrals would make sense.
That said, I don't think that the difference between 6 neutrals on a weapon and 8 on a suspect is so great that it would preclude someone from going after a suspect before a weapon if they wanted to play it that way. My hope is that the combination of higher neutrals and a larger bonus for the Interrogation rooms will balance out the risk/reward equation for the two types of rooms, and avoid there being only one "correct" strategy.
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