[Abandoned] - SlovakNationalUprising

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Re: Slovak National Uprising/SNP

Postby Dukasaur on Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:36 pm

theBastard wrote:
Dukasaur wrote:I've been in Canada most of my life but I was born in Praha...:)

so we can speak CzechoSlovak... :D Praha is beautiful city, did you visit it after arrival?

Yeah, I've been home five times total since coming here... although most recent was in 1996, I'm overdue for another.

theBastard wrote:
Dukasaur wrote:Yes, the new railroads and arrows are much better!

thanks. glad you like it.

I do. Don't be giving up now, you've got some good stuff here!
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Re: byebye.

Postby theBastard on Sat Jul 30, 2011 5:47 pm

The Bison King wrote:A bummer. You had a lot of really great idea's, it's a shame that none of them ever came into completion :(


Baltic Crusade is in Final foundry...
cairnswk wrote:I am sorry you feel like this theBastard.


yes I feel it so. but it is not only my feeling - it is fact, a very little interest in my maps...
cairnswk wrote:I for one have only just returned to being active since early June after almost 12 months away, so i have not been permanently active, and i do have other projects and RL to consider. In fact my posting will soon decline for the next semester at uni.
Also, you should know, that you don't always get back in life from those you give to. Sometimes it comes back from others, and sometimes not for long time. If you fall down, then get up and keep trying.


I know you had big pause, but look how much posts I have in your maps and how much you in my...
cairnswk wrote:If your trying is not hard enough, then perhaps you will keep falling down, and your heart was not really in your projects. But whatever your decision, i wish you luck. :)


do you think? did you see my first attempts of mapping? I am sure no - I was totaly "analphabet" in using Photoshop or GIMP. and I learn everything from nothing. and I have 6 maps in site, each one with different idea and gameplay...
Kabanellas wrote:I'm sorry I don't post much around here, but most of the times, I honestly don't feel comfortable enough to do it. I feel that to give a valid and honest opinion that goes a little beyond superficiality one must have the time to really dig into the map and be totally in sync with the thread. With all my real life issues, wife, work and all, plus my involvement on the foundry has a mapmaker just keep me a bit overwhelmed... and I also play (yup I do like to roll and get 1's and 2's) and have a somewhat strong involvement with clan issues, so I permanently have a reasonable amount of games going on which can really take a lot of time from you.


everybody has his real life, women or girl friend, job, friends... and I do not think that anybody could says "I am the most busy in real life". you have one post in my 6 maps. could you tell me how much have I in yours?
Kabanellas wrote:Anyway, I hope you do consider that decision of yours. I'd like to continue to see you hanging around this house.


no, I will not continue more.
koontz1973 wrote:Do not say bye as the map have been coming along great guns. Keep at it and in the end we can all play it. Never posted in your thread as I never had anything to say that could be deemed worthy.


this is not my only thread/map. do you know about this...?
natty_dread wrote:I'm not really good on analyzing gameplay, so I'll leave that to someone more capable and give you some graphical advice...


therefore I thanks you for your graphics inputs. but do not believe that you are not good in analyzing gameplay - you are old and skilled member...
natty_dread wrote:The background you have doesn't really fit with the style & theme of the map. The paper background looks like something that would go well with some of your other projects, the medieval maps... it has that old, worn parchment look. Which doesn't really go well with a WWII era map - you should have a slightly newer looking paper for it.

Secondly, the graphical elements you have on the map are not working well with the background. They don't look like they belong on that background, sort of like they're just pasted on it. However, like said, I'd rather you'd try finding a background that would work better with the elements you have, since I don't think the background really works for the theme.

Also, the "worn parchment style" has been really overdone lately... not that that counts for a reason on it's own, but like I said, you could do better for the theme of the map with some other kind of background.

I'm a bit concerned that 2/3 of your map is legend & instructions, and only 1/3 is playable area. You need to make it simpler - not necessarily simplify the gameplay, but try making it easier for the player to understand... streamline the instructions - no one wants to have to read a novel just to understand how a map works... try using more visual elements for the legend, replace as much of the text with visual elements as you can.

To that effect... perhaps you could also tilt the playable area a bit and zoom in to it, to also make it less cluttered... then arrange the legend & other instructions, title, etc. around the map. The title could also be more prominent - current title is a bit boring.

Anyway, I hope I'm not writing all this for nothing ;)


good input. but too late when I must beseech for any feedback...
Victor Sullivan wrote:
Actually, I've been watching this map. Just sometimes it takes a bit to hunker down and type all that needs to be said for gameplay (I'm like the opposite of natty in that respect - graphics aren't my forte), especially when you've got a gameplay-giant of a map like this one. Just give me some time ;) I've had other things that I've been busy with lately. And feel free to shoot me a PM. I'll be out of town this week, but I may be able to pop in from time to time.

-Sully


Sully, you have (with this one) three posts in my maps. do you remeber my Medieval Oligarchy? you posted there "how much intrigues you gameplay and that you will post more later" - and you was never more there, as example. you have more as 4000 posts anywhere. and I must say that you have mainly good points about gameplay. but never in my threads.
TaCktiX wrote:I apologize on not posting, but while you had those other maps up I was literally indisposed to providing feedback, only doing the bare minimum. And when I would have posted on SNP, Helix had already stated what I was going to say. I like seeing the first update AFTER a Draft stamp before making a long critique. I'm sorry that my reticence was a reason for driving you away, but I do ask that you please stay for this once. You won't regret it, I promise.


ok, if Helix outruned you here, but how much posts you have in my other maps?
Dukasaur wrote:Yeah, I've been home five times total since coming here... although most recent was in 1996, I'm overdue for another.


great. and do you know czech language?
Dukasaur wrote:I do. Don't be giving up now, you've got some good stuff here!


thanks. but there are very little interest in my maps, so what for I would spend my time, energy?

guys, I do not cry here. it is not my style. just I see very little interest in my maps. maybe I am not enough patient (I do not thing this - Helix and natty know my start here and I teach some skills, also I started new and new maps...).
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Re: byebye.

Postby natty dread on Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:11 pm

Bastard, all mapmakers go through periods when they get less feedback than they'd like - particularly at this time, when there are more map threads calling for attention and not enough commenters. It's a competitive arena out there for map threads these days... if you aren't constantly posting for attention your thread will fall to the bottom where no one will remember it's existence.

You're not alone feeling like this. Heck, with every map I've made, I've had times when I've thought "damn, no feedback again... is it worth it going on, should I just give this up?"

Look at any map thread on this forum... each has had periods when they have been for days - even weeks - without any feedback.

Now, hopefully the situation gets corrected sometime in the near future - lots of bright minds are trying to come up with solutions for it - but meanwhile, all you can do is grit your teeth and keep churning forward. If you don't get feedback, make some noise: keep working on the map, make updates - see how many posts you got just by telling everyone you're quitting the map? If you just post an update, and then wait silently and politely for people to comment, it's up to chance really whether you'll get any feedback - whether your update hits in a point in people's schedules when they are capable of giving feedback or not... and if you just keep waiting for it, patiently and politely, others, more aggressive mapmakers will grab the spotlight and people forget you.

No, it's not an ideal situation. And it's a damn shame and tough shit for all the humble, meek-mannered mapmakers who don't like making a big fuss & noise about themselves. But it is what it is, at least for now, and if you want to succeed, you have to adapt.

Don't think that you're alone with this. Heck, your last map got to FF quite well, and your other threads did receive plenty of feedback, I was there. This map just got to a slow start, if you keep on working on it, and keep making updates, you will get feedback, and you will eventually get the map done - you have the talent, you have good eye for gameplay design - let me tell you this straight out: there's nothing keeping you from being a succesful mapmaker other than your own self-doubt.

Just look around... the maps that get the most feedback are also the maps where the mapmaker makes the most updates. It happens with any map thread. Even for Kabanellas, who's pretty much a genius when it comes to mapmaking, and yet his map threads go quiet as a cemetery if he stops updating for a while.

So it's up to you. The system is not ideal, and we all wish it could work better, but for the moment, we have to work with what we got. If you think it's not suitable for you, and you see it as too much effort, then you probably should quit - there's no sense in doing something like this if you don't enjoy it. You're not getting any money off it. However, if you really want to get this map done... then you should keep on working on it, no matter what.
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Re: byebye.

Postby cairnswk on Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:40 pm

theBastard wrote:...
I know you had big pause, but look how much posts I have in your maps and how much you in my...


I did, and after doing a search in the threads, i found exactly three posts in Spanish Armada...nowhere else. I'd hardly call that hard core posting in my threads, would you?

Still that is three more posts than i have probably given you particularly when like stated i have been away for nearly 12 months.
And to be honest, the Slovak National Uprising doesn't exactly grab me as a good subject of interest for me. But as it progressed towards graphics, you might have got more interest from me towards completing the graphics ready for FF. I beleive this map was still progressing through gameplay, was it not?

And yes i agree with what Natty said above. Lots of maps go through periods of quietness.
And like i said, if you're determined enough to see a project through then you'll persist with it, otherwise your heart may not have been in the project at all. You're not the only one who has been in this position. :)
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Re: byebye.

Postby MarshalNey on Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:49 pm

I feel like a major culprit in getting out late or unevenly-timed feedback. A large part of this is my hardware situation, which if anyone has noticed has put me into 2 separate involuntary 'vacations' from CC altogether. However, another part of it is that I try to give long thoughtful replies instead of several sentences that talk about a single, possibly minor, issue. Which makes my commenting either a feast-or-famine sort of situation. Either a mapmaker gets a crap-ton of feedback, or none at all.

What I wish, actually, is that I could somehow communicate that I'm watching a thread and keeping current on its progress without spamming the thread with posts like, "Hey, just wanted to say I'm keeping on eye on this and the progress looks good so far." That way, at least, a mapmaker could know that their work is appreciated and under review.

The Foundry, at various times, has stated a goal of trying to keep a fortnightly (every two weeks) review system where each map gets a mod review within that time period (or shorter). And in the old gameplay and graphics workshops, there were periods of several months at least when that goal was met. However, the hard cold truth is that it takes a lot of devoted time from the CAs, and some good luck in their real lives, to avoid a situation where the map reviews devolve into 3-sentence queries that show a disheartening lack of effort rather than giving good guidance to the mapmaker.

Anyway, this thread is devolving into a Foundry Discussions topic, but it's a good discussion to have certainly.

TheBastard, I apologize heartily for not giving you more feedback. But I can say in all honesty that I have loved every single one of your map ideas. I love history and your maps hit some great topics that I never even knew existed- The Batlic Crusades, and Medieval Oligarchy, for instance. The Reconquista, although it had a somewhat similar look to Baltic Crusades, I still hold as my #1 choice for a map revival. It's an awesome, fascinating topic.

If you're resolved to leave, I understand. CC can be a drain on time, and mapmaking on CC can be an outright killer. Perhaps, though, it may just be a vacation to recharge- who knows?

In any case, let me say thank you for the good map ideas and helpful comments. And thank you for educating me about periods of history that I never even knew about, and may never have looked into otherwise. :)

-- Marshal Ney
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Re: byebye.

Postby theBastard on Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:58 am

cairnswk wrote:I did, and after doing a search in the threads, i found exactly three posts in Spanish Armada...nowhere else. I'd hardly call that hard core posting in my threads, would you?


yes, just three posts. but after my post you added ships, battle sites to the map, so I hope these my only three post were helpfull.
cairnswk wrote:Still that is three more posts than i have probably given you particularly when like stated i have been away for nearly 12 months.
And to be honest, the Slovak National Uprising doesn't exactly grab me as a good subject of interest for me. But as it progressed towards graphics, you might have got more interest from me towards completing the graphics ready for FF. I beleive this map was still progressing through gameplay, was it not?


I have also another maps, and to be honestly what would grab me on Spanish Armada? but it is historical map and besause I like history I have tried to look at all of them and help.
cairnswk wrote:And yes i agree with what Natty said above. Lots of maps go through periods of quietness.
And like i said, if you're determined enough to see a project through then you'll persist with it, otherwise your heart may not have been in the project at all. You're not the only one who has been in this position. :)


oh realy? I worked year on Baltic Crusade and as I mentioned, I must learned everything from nothing. you did not exactly understand me, I am not crying here only what can I tell is that I am not good at graphics, not good at gameply, my English is poor, so I need help with all these things. and it did not come (except 3-4 guys)...

MarshalNey wrote:I feel like a major culprit in getting out late or unevenly-timed feedback. A large part of this is my hardware situation, which if anyone has noticed has put me into 2 separate involuntary 'vacations' from CC altogether.


not guilty! :)
as you can see in my "byebye" post you are person to which I thanks. so do not feel as culprit.
MarshalNey wrote:However, another part of it is that I try to give long thoughtful replies instead of several sentences that talk about a single, possibly minor, issue. Which makes my commenting either a feast-or-famine sort of situation. Either a mapmaker gets a crap-ton of feedback, or none at all.


therefore I like you. I do not need posts like: nice. awesome map. keep good work. yes these could help and add pleasure, but I call for advices and tips. and you did this - your help in Medieval Oligarchy open my eyes, so I can see my mistakes and believe me I want to finish it with yours advices. but disinterest of others resolve this...
MarshalNey wrote:What I wish, actually, is that I could somehow communicate that I'm watching a thread and keeping current on its progress without spamming the thread with posts like, "Hey, just wanted to say I'm keeping on eye on this and the progress looks good so far." That way, at least, a mapmaker could know that their work is appreciated and under review.

The Foundry, at various times, has stated a goal of trying to keep a fortnightly (every two weeks) review system where each map gets a mod review within that time period (or shorter). And in the old gameplay and graphics workshops, there were periods of several months at least when that goal was met. However, the hard cold truth is that it takes a lot of devoted time from the CAs, and some good luck in their real lives, to avoid a situation where the map reviews devolve into 3-sentence queries that show a disheartening lack of effort rather than giving good guidance to the mapmaker.

Anyway, this thread is devolving into a Foundry Discussions topic, but it's a good discussion to have certainly.


it is not about time or system. look at natty´s post here after my "byebye" post. it is post full of feedbacks, critique, advices. this is what I (and I think every mapmaker) need. but here is question why did not natty this before? I feel it as not time or system problem - it is disinterest, because believe me if natty (or anybody) become with alike post before my "byebye" post I would be happy, I would feel interest and help. and I will be here long time because I like history, making maps and bringing new things to people...
MarshalNey wrote:TheBastard, I apologize heartily for not giving you more feedback. But I can say in all honesty that I have loved every single one of your map ideas.


then why you did not post in my maps when you so love them? and do not tell me it is hardware problem. one sentence from you like "looks interesting (but need to polish), I will post more feedback later" would be great and I will wait it, because I would feel interest.
MarshalNey wrote:I love history and your maps hit some great topics that I never even knew existed- The Batlic Crusades, and Medieval Oligarchy, for instance. The Reconquista, although it had a somewhat similar look to Baltic Crusades, I still hold as my #1 choice for a map revival. It's an awesome, fascinating topic.


yes this is what I want to do here. historical maps and shows to people something from history. so I am glad when I "teach" you and others something new ;)
MarshalNey wrote:If you're resolved to leave, I understand. CC can be a drain on time, and mapmaking on CC can be an outright killer. Perhaps, though, it may just be a vacation to recharge- who knows?

In any case, let me say thank you for the good map ideas and helpful comments. And thank you for educating me about periods of history that I never even knew about, and may never have looked into otherwise. :)

-- Marshal Ney


I thank you for your feedbacks and for your constructive posts in all maps.
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Re: byebye.

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:41 am

So does this reply mean you are going to continue with this map or are you going to drop it?

You certainly have enough interest if you wanted to.
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Re: byebye.

Postby natty dread on Sun Jul 31, 2011 4:08 am

Bastard, I don't know what you want us to say. If you've made your decision not to continue mapmaking, then I guess that's it, no use continuing this debate. If you want someone to convince you otherwise... well, pretty much everything that can be said has already been said.
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Re: byebye.

Postby theBastard on Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:07 am

natty_dread wrote:Bastard, I don't know what you want us to say. If you've made your decision not to continue mapmaking, then I guess that's it, no use continuing this debate. If you want someone to convince you otherwise... well, pretty much everything that can be said has already been said.


about what you talking here? I made decision ofcourse, but there are some reactions on it, so I only replay on them. it is normal to replay, I think.
if you have problem with any debate, do not read it...
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Re: byebye.

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:18 am

theBastard wrote:
natty_dread wrote:Bastard, I don't know what you want us to say. If you've made your decision not to continue mapmaking, then I guess that's it, no use continuing this debate. If you want someone to convince you otherwise... well, pretty much everything that can be said has already been said.


about what you talking here? I made decision ofcourse, but there are some reactions on it, so I only replay on them. it is normal to replay, I think.
if you have problem with any debate, do not read it...

But this is not a debate thread, it is a map thread.
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Re: byebye.

Postby thenobodies80 on Sun Jul 31, 2011 6:52 am

Hi,

I would like to bring your attention on the map and tell you where your project fails imo.

1. Do you want more feedback?, Try to make your OP more friendly, your map isn't simple to understand, you should list (at least) the number of territory the bonuses, etc, try to make more easy to gather the infos required at glance. Not all people has 20-30 mins to look at a map, read all legends and give a thoughtful suggestion.
2. The map is really hard to understand. Simplify it or enlarge the playable area is certainly the way to go.
3. The map is more legends than map. Why you need to waste so much space? the pictures, with more trasparency, can easily stay behind the text. The Central Europe legend is there for?
4. Double names, they make things really confusing, at least for me.
5. What are the starting values? Do you have any neutral region? Do you have starting positions?
In addition, if I'm not wrong you have 54 territories, that's not a so good number (18 with 2 or 3 players)
I'm really worried about the starting drop after looking at these numbers:
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6. Graphically speaking there's a lot to do, for example I'm not to sure the parchment is a good choice for this map. But you can focus on graphics later ;)

Hope it helps
Nobodies

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Re: Slovak National Uprising

Postby Nola_Lifer on Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:14 pm

So is this one dead?
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f*ck THE UNION LOUISIANA WILL RISE AGAIN
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Re: Slovak National Uprising

Postby TaCktiX on Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:08 pm

[Moved]

It would appear that development of this map has stalled. If the mapmaker wants to continue with the map, then one of the Foundry Moderators will be able to help put the thread back into the Foundry system, after an update has been made. ;-)
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Re: [Abandoned] - SlovakNationalUprising

Postby Oneyed on Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:11 am

if I could do something similar, could Ipick up tis and try to finish it (ofcourse with my changes), or could I start new maps with the same theme and area?

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Re: [Abandoned] - SlovakNationalUprising

Postby koontz1973 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:33 am

This map is classed as abandoned. By all means try to do it. It is the same way as Seamus with China. But try to contact theBastard first. You have to start a new one from scratch with all new graphics.
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Re: [Abandoned] - SlovakNationalUprising

Postby Dukasaur on Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:06 pm

Oneyed wrote:if I could do something similar, could Ipick up tis and try to finish it (ofcourse with my changes), or could I start new maps with the same theme and area?

Oneyed

Yeah, I think you could do a great job using the same basic idea, but not encumbering yourself with someone else's graphic baggage.
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Re: [Abandoned] - SlovakNationalUprising

Postby Oneyed on Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:02 pm

thanks guys.

Oneyed
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