[Abandoned] - SlovakNationalUprising

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[Abandoned] - SlovakNationalUprising

Postby theBastard on Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:33 am

I have some not finished maps here. I had (and still have) some problems with my thumb, but I had dream to bring my country (Slovakia) to CC as playable map. and because I like history this map is from Second World War when Slovak guerillas start fight against Nazi Germany and fascist regime in Slovakia. so here it is:

version 9. another arrows for German units attacks.
Click image to enlarge.
image


version 8. a little changed arrows of one way assaults. which ones look better - version 7 or version 8?
Click image to enlarge.
image


version 7. new railways and some text changes.
Click image to enlarge.
image


show


show


version 1
show
Last edited by isaiah40 on Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:57 pm, edited 17 times in total.
Reason: Title edited
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Re: Slovak National Uprising/SNP

Postby theBastard on Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:46 pm

21 views and no opinion? is it bad, too complicated, need anything more?
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Re: Slovak National Uprising/SNP

Postby natty dread on Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:45 pm

Seems a bit complex... but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It does seem sort of cramped though. How about making the image a bit larger? Id recommend at least the full 840.
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Re: Slovak National Uprising/SNP

Postby theBastard on Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:56 pm

natty_dread wrote:Seems a bit complex...


I was afraid of this...
natty_dread wrote:but that's not necessarily a bad thing.


...and hope for this :D
natty_dread wrote:It does seem sort of cramped though.


yes I know. you mean "playable map" or all picture?
natty_dread wrote:How about making the image a bit larger? Id recommend at least the full 840.


it has 840 x 560.

thanks for input natty. maybe delete some towns from map or kick off "garrisons" could help...
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Re: Slovak National Uprising/SNP

Postby shakeycat on Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:59 pm

It seems quite complicated.

Perhaps there's another shape you can use to represent a town with a garrison. The circle inside the square makes me wonder if it's just a town with a train station. Trnava confused me most in the German 1-way section, because the same symbol is not used on them map as on the assault route.

And if those are German 1-way attacks, show which direction they are attacking. I'm sure it's obvious to you that they are going left to right, west to east, but maybe some little arrows instead of the dotted red lines would help us quickly understand it.

Do you explain somewhere why each region has a red town and a black town?

To get the bonus for holding regions, do you need to hold both the red and black in each region to make it valid?

The flag in the centre helps tie us to the B. Bystrica mini-map - perhaps something similar could help us with the German 1-ways? Or you could draw in faded/dashed lines of attack on the map to show each one (something like Northwest passage, but less in-your-face).
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Re: Slovak National Uprising/SNP

Postby natty dread on Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:06 pm

theBastard wrote:
it has 840 x 560.



No, it's 800x533.
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Re: Slovak National Uprising/SNP

Postby theBastard on Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:32 pm

shakeycat wrote:It seems quite complicated.

Perhaps there's another shape you can use to represent a town with a garrison. The circle inside the square makes me wonder if it's just a town with a train station. Trnava confused me most in the German 1-way section, because the same symbol is not used on them map as on the assault route.


right. will add another symbol for garisson...
shakeycat wrote:And if those are German 1-way attacks, show which direction they are attacking. I'm sure it's obvious to you that they are going left to right, west to east, but maybe some little arrows instead of the dotted red lines would help us quickly understand it.


you read map right. but it need show that routes are go from west to east...
shakeycat wrote:Do you explain somewhere why each region has a red town and a black town?

To get the bonus for holding regions, do you need to hold both the red and black in each region to make it valid?


the red is region, the black is town.
so for bonus from regions you need only red ones.
shakeycat wrote:The flag in the centre helps tie us to the B. Bystrica mini-map - perhaps something similar could help us with the German 1-ways? Or you could draw in faded/dashed lines of attack on the map to show each one (something like Northwest passage, but less in-your-face).


drawing the lines of attack direct to map?

hm, it seems that map needs be a little simplier...

thanks for your ideas.

EDIT: oops natty, here is size 840
Click image to enlarge.
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Re: Slovak National Uprising/SNP

Postby Industrial Helix on Mon Jul 04, 2011 8:38 pm

I'm actually really impressed with this map... it seems to convey the military events quite well and enables players to re-enact the event. Plus, it covers a region not on CC already and an area of WWII largely overlooked. So you've got my support.

But, it needs more clarity. Going bigger would help, I would consider supersize if I were you because the small map just isn't going to work.

The one way routes to the lower right should use arrows instead of dots.

The train connections... I'm wondering if you can do without them. Were they an essential piece of the Slovak uprising? If so, you might do better to put the lower middle diagram on the map if/when you go supersize.

As for the guerilla areas, I would block it off completely with the brown impassables and have the one way arrows go over it. Having a normal border there makes the one way attacks less clear.

Speaking of the impassables... you might be better off, in the future, using something like barbed wire.

I don't understand the difference between the red circles and black circles... for example, the two Bratislavas. Are the red ones the German military units? You need to distinguish between red and black.
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Re: Slovak National Uprising/SNP

Postby theBastard on Tue Jul 05, 2011 2:09 am

Industrial Helix wrote:I'm actually really impressed with this map... it seems to convey the military events quite well and enables players to re-enact the event. Plus, it covers a region not on CC already and an area of WWII largely overlooked. So you've got my support.


thanks Helix for your nice words and support. :D
Industrial Helix wrote:But, it needs more clarity. Going bigger would help, I would consider supersize if I were you because the small map just isn't going to work.


if I look at small version, you are right. hm, which size for small map? 840x640?
Industrial Helix wrote:The one way routes to the lower right should use arrows instead of dots.


yes. this was only the first idea. I need also do something with "garrison" symbols...
Industrial Helix wrote:The train connections... I'm wondering if you can do without them. Were they an essential piece of the Slovak uprising? If so, you might do better to put the lower middle diagram on the map if/when you go supersize.


the combat trains were very important, because guerilla had no tanks or another heavy armoured vehicles. these trains were armoured and well armed and very usefull. yes, we can say they were essential piece (and symbols) of uprising...

I think if we will go with supersize the railways could be drawn on the map.
Industrial Helix wrote:As for the guerilla areas, I would block it off completely with the brown impassables and have the one way arrows go over it. Having a normal border there makes the one way attacks less clear.

Speaking of the impassables... you might be better off, in the future, using something like barbed wire.


the brown impassables are mountains. we have realy much mountains in Slovakia and there are bad acceses, therefore when official uprising was supressed by German forces, the guerilla can fight again in these mountains...

maybe I could add barb wire only where are one way assaults?
Industrial Helix wrote:I don't understand the difference between the red circles and black circles... for example, the two Bratislavas. Are the red ones the German military units? You need to distinguish between red and black.


red circles are for regions, black are for towns. something as in Battle for Iraq. German military units (how they marched) is shown where you can have arrows :)

this is 630x420 version.
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Re: Slovak National Uprising/SNP-new graphics and map

Postby theBastard on Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:05 pm

Click image to enlarge.
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a little another graphics
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Re: Slovak National Uprising/SNP-new map

Postby theBastard on Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:59 am

changed background texture. I like it more now (all map is done as old newspaper).

Click image to enlarge.
image


two questions:
1, could I have map "without" upper right corner - I mean the background texture is missed there, so do all layers missing?
2, on blue guys - could I go with this version 840x640 as playable (small)?
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Re: Slovak National Uprising/SNP-new map

Postby natty dread on Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:12 am

JPG:s don't support transparency and maps are hosted as JPG:s so you shouldn't have transparency on the map image. You can put a white layer on the bottom so any transparent areas will be white.
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Re: Slovak National Uprising/SNP-new map

Postby theBastard on Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:59 am

thanks natty.

so it should looks as this:
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Re: Slovak National Uprising/SNP-new map

Postby Industrial Helix on Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:19 am

It's look better and better... are the train stations in the lower middle separate territories from the same named territories on the map?

Also, i don't understand what you mean by disaffect garrison. Does that mean they weren't affected by the uprising?
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Re: Slovak National Uprising/SNP-new map

Postby theBastard on Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:49 am

Industrial Helix wrote:It's look better and better...


thanks. the graphics (styl, quality) is close to my limits. if there will be some errors or not clear things it is on blue guys to find them ;)
Industrial Helix wrote:are the train stations in the lower middle separate territories from the same named territories on the map?


yes they are the same (as towns in German unit routes in low right). they are just to show "trains".
Industrial Helix wrote:Also, i don't understand what you mean by disaffect garrison. Does that mean they weren't affected by the uprising?


I will remove disaffect - it is not needed for gameplay.

in Slovakia was fascist regime and these disaffect garissons from Slovak army (fascist) supported uprising. not all army supported it.
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Re: Slovak National Uprising/SNP-new update

Postby theBastard on Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:02 pm

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Re: Slovak National Uprising/SNP-new update

Postby Nola_Lifer on Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:32 pm

Nice map but I don't understand the train bonus? What is both trains? Is the map in the top right necessary. I like it because it puts things into context but is it necessary. Maybe use the word Uprisers instead of risers.
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Re: Slovak National Uprising/SNP

Postby Dukasaur on Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:48 pm

theBastard wrote:21 views and no opinion? is it bad, too complicated, need anything more?

I like it. I just don't visit the foundry often enough...:-)

Industrial Helix wrote:I'm actually really impressed with this map... it seems to convey the military events quite well and enables players to re-enact the event. Plus, it covers a region not on CC already and an area of WWII largely overlooked. So you've got my support.


Strongly concur with both of those points. Plus, it's nice to see some work from a brother Slav..:-)

About the only thing I would say is that the little yellow dotted lines for the railroad will be very hard to see for old farts like me with bad eyes. I would make big thick yellow lines there, with a diameter at least 1/2 of the diameter of the train station boxes.

Same thing with the one-way arrows... bigger and bolder.

Some of the wording is a bit clumsy, but there's plenty of time to play with that.
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Re: Slovak National Uprising/SNP

Postby theBastard on Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:19 pm

thanks Nola.

here is version with better "train" bonus. there is no train bonus, there is bonus for hold both stations of the train. there are two trains=two railways Cremosne-Zvolen and Kremnica-Brezno. the B.Bystrica is crossroad not needed for railway (train) bonus, but if you hold it and train you gain +1.

small map. hm, it is very needed I think. no everyone know what and where is Slovakia ;) I did it black/white.

Dukasaur wrote:I like it. I just don't visit the foundry often enough...:-)


thanks. yes there are some nice pieces :D
Dukasaur wrote:
Industrial Helix wrote:I'm actually really impressed with this map... it seems to convey the military events quite well and enables players to re-enact the event. Plus, it covers a region not on CC already and an area of WWII largely overlooked. So you've got my support.

Dukasaur wrote:Strongly concur with both of those points. Plus, it's nice to see some work from a brother Slav..:-)


I am glad that you (both) feel what was my goal :P where are you from? it shows Canada now...
Dukasaur wrote:About the only thing I would say is that the little yellow dotted lines for the railroad will be very hard to see for old farts like me with bad eyes. I would make big thick yellow lines there, with a diameter at least 1/2 of the diameter of the train station boxes.

Same thing with the one-way arrows... bigger and bolder.


there is needed some edits. will see what I can do for you.
Dukasaur wrote:Some of the wording is a bit clumsy, but there's plenty of time to play with that.


oh, my English is bad and poor. but here is many guys who are good at English.

edited version
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Re: Slovak National Uprising/SNP-another update

Postby theBastard on Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:43 pm

ok. new railways.
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Re: Slovak National Uprising/SNP-another update

Postby Industrial Helix on Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:14 pm

Hmm... its a little crowded, but I think its better than off train maps.

Is there any way you can expand the size of the green region and give everything a little more room to fit? I mean, it would skew the geography a little, but it would improve the readability.

Also, is this similar to Baltic Crusades where the cities and stations are within the regions?
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Re: Slovak National Uprising/SNP-another update

Postby theBastard on Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:16 am

Industrial Helix wrote:Hmm... its a little crowded, but I think its better than off train maps.


a little, yes.
Industrial Helix wrote:Is there any way you can expand the size of the green region and give everything a little more room to fit? I mean, it would skew the geography a little, but it would improve the readability.


I can move mountains a little off green zone. this is only one chance to expand its size which I see...
Industrial Helix wrote:Also, is this similar to Baltic Crusades where the cities and stations are within the regions?


no, regions are red circles, so for "regional bonus" you need to hold only red circles. I have some idea how to explain this better in legend...

thanks for your comment.
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Re: Slovak National Uprising/SNP-another update

Postby Industrial Helix on Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:27 am

Ok.... lets clear up the English a little bit and go from there.

"Bratislava, Slovak Republic.
On August 29th, 1944 partisans rose up against Nazi Germany and the Slovak puppet government. They were joined by several mutinous units of the Slovak Army. That September, the Wehrmacht moved against the rebel stronghold and the partisans took the fight to the mountains of central Slovakia."

"Without tanks or artillery, the Slovak Rebels resorted to armored train cars to support their troops. Hurban, Stefanik and Masaryk were the principle contributors, their stations give the following bonus."

+2 for any six towns
+3 for any two with B. Bysterica, -1 if held without any German unit
Can bombard rebel airport and train stations
Can bombard rebel regions (green) and German airport

German Buffer Zone
Slovak rump state
Rebel stronghold

---

This might be a stretch, but what if you could fit the German route arrows onto the map? It would make things clearer and you would save on dead space. As it is, this map has too much dead space.
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Re: Slovak National Uprising/SNP-another update

Postby theBastard on Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:30 am

here is map with routes on the map and some changes. Helix I use uprisers, no rebels. it sounds better to me. do not know why... :)

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Re: Slovak National Uprising/SNP-another update

Postby Industrial Helix on Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:26 am

Oh hell yeah! Now that looks like a proper military map. I wish I had done this on the communism maps. I really love the arrows, plus everything is pretty clear. It looks great!

But unfortunately, uprisers isn't a word in the English language. I can't think of anything better than rebel though partisans works too. What's the word for rebel/upriser in Slovakian?
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