[Abandoned] - Gettysburg

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Re: Gettysburg

Postby Minister X on Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:23 pm

ROTFLMAO - I forgot to post the image. Here you go...

show: 2nd draft map since replaced
Last edited by Minister X on Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gettysburg

Postby natty dread on Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:47 pm

Ok, that style is more in line with the theme. Good job there.

Now, the folds don't look very natural... I get what you're trying to do with them, but... they should be smoother, they're currently just distracting...

Also, I'm not sure if it's an artifact of the folds, but all of your text looks blurry now. Some is even unreadable... You should try to get the text sharper.

The colours could be made more visible, it's too hard to tell the bonuses apart...

I like the texture in the legend though.
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Re: Gettysburg

Postby isaiah40 on Sun Jul 31, 2011 7:29 pm

Okay this does look really good!! Since you are new here, it is a good idea to keep the first post updated with each version you do. You can put the previous images in spoiler tags. You use the spoiler tags by typing [spoiler=Name of spoiler [/spoiler, you need to put the square brackets at the end of each one as well for it to work like this:
show: This is what a spoiler looks like


Also, for your title please do it like this:
Gettysburg [31/7/2011] V 1 pg 2. This will tell everyone what version you're on, the date last updated and what pg the latest update is on.

As for that keep up the great work, and I will be following this!
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Re: Gettysburg [31/7/2011] V 1 pg 2

Postby Minister X on Sun Jul 31, 2011 7:57 pm

Isaiah: I did the spoiler thing and changed the title - thanks for the heads-up. Glad you like the start I've made.

Natty Dread: this was my first-ever attempt to make folds; do you know of a tutorial anywhere? I should probably just forget it, huh? (It caused the other issues you mentioned.) Instead, maybe I can make the edges slightly disintegrating, as happens with very old paper. DO MAPS ALWAYS APPEAR AGAINST THAT SAME LIGHT GRAY? IF SO, WHAT EXACT COLOR IS THAT? (I can make some cool effects if the background is always the same color.
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Re: Gettysburg [31/7/2011] V 1 pg 2

Postby DiM on Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:07 pm

Minister X wrote:Isaiah: I did the spoiler thing and changed the title - thanks for the heads-up. Glad you like the start I've made.

Natty Dread: this was my first-ever attempt to make folds; do you know of a tutorial anywhere? I should probably just forget it, huh? (It caused the other issues you mentioned.) Instead, maybe I can make the edges slightly disintegrating, as happens with very old paper. DO MAPS ALWAYS APPEAR AGAINST THAT SAME LIGHT GRAY? IF SO, WHAT EXACT COLOR IS THAT? (I can make some cool effects if the background is always the same color.



i think you should worry about the graphics at a later point. what you have now is sufficient for discussing gameplay. once that's almost final you can start working on the graphics. there's really no point in wasting time to make folds and creases and disintegrating edges when most of it might have to be changed when the gameplay requires it.
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Re: Gettysburg [31/7/2011] V 1 pg 2

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:19 am

Great work Minister, love the feel to this one. Not one for giving much help as I am only new myself. With the folds, for now I would say lose them but keep playing around while you carry on with the map. At some point you will get them nice. With the bonus colours, can you make them more prominent so it will be easier to see each bonus zone.
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Re: Gettysburg [31/7/2011] V 1 pg 2

Postby sannemanrobinson on Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:01 am

Never heard of Gettysburg before. So the name To Baltimore gives some sense of direction to me. The scale of the map is a bit abstract, making forests and farmlands on the map with simple lines and symbols could help.

Also the time frame is not stated in the map. With the flags and railroads it represents the 19th century?

The legend mentions a conditional autodeploy which is not possible (yet). You could use a normal bonus for holding Gettysburg+surrounding region. The centralized layout with Gettysburg in the middle is a bit similar with Egypt: Valley of the Kings.

Gettysburg starts neutral I presume? Because 6 as a bonus is very high. You could make this 6 an autodeploy of course...
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Re: Gettysburg [31/7/2011] V 1 pg 2

Postby Minister X on Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:00 am

Sannemanrobinson: Even though you're from the Netherlands, I'm a little surprised you've never heard of Gettysburg (July 1-3, 1863). It was the most famous battle of the US Civil War (1861-65) and certainly one of the most famous battles of the 19th century. I want to be sensitive to non-Americans, but unless I hear otherwise from more of them, I'm going to assume it's famous enough to not need further explication. (Maybe I'll add the date, however.)

I'll give definite consideration to adding map elements that will help give a sense of scale. The street layout of the town (plus all the roads leading off) is probably the best way. But lines tend to make borders tougher to distinguish, so I'll have to be careful.

Let me be sure I understand the autodeploy limit. We can't have: "IF YOU OWN X AND Y AND Z THEN 5 GET DEPLOYED IN A" ? It will have to be regular bonus?

Six isn't the bonus in Gettysburg, it's the number of neutrals who start the game there. I don't want it taken too early and I certainly don't want any player to get it at the start. I will even consider increasing this number. The value of Gettysburg is high; the cost to take it should be commensurate.

Dim & Koontz: thanks - good advice.
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Re: Gettysburg [31/7/2011] V 1 pg 2

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:52 am

I think a small note about Gettysburg and the Civil War would probably be a nice addition to this map, to help give it some place in history for those who are unfamiliar with it in general, or who have only heard of the name at some point.

I'll give the gameplay a look over in the next week or so. Good work so far!


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Re: Gettysburg [31/7/2011] V 1 pg 2

Postby DiM on Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:28 pm

Minister X wrote:Sannemanrobinson: Even though you're from the Netherlands, I'm a little surprised you've never heard of Gettysburg (July 1-3, 1863). It was the most famous battle of the US Civil War (1861-65) and certainly one of the most famous battles of the 19th century. I want to be sensitive to non-Americans, but unless I hear otherwise from more of them, I'm going to assume it's famous enough to not need further explication. (Maybe I'll add the date, however.)


i think he heard about gettysburg but he was just making a point. adding various details to the map will make it better recognized as well as more pleasant to look at. anything from a title with flags and guns to various artwork or a small story will help the theme and set the mood. or perhaps a quote from lincoln's address speech.
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Re: Gettysburg [31/7/2011] V 1 pg 2

Postby MartinRiggs on Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:26 pm

Having visited the battlefield I think this is a great idea. I think the bonus's should be more well defined. Also the Gettysburg town location is importand in gaining bonus's. But it's not centrally located enough to make it fair to someone who had an initial drop predominately in the south. Overall though I believe this is a good concept and with some tweaking should work out
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Re: Gettysburg [31/7/2011] V 1 pg 2

Postby Minister X on Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:38 pm

Here's the third draft. I've included a blurb with some info about the battle, taken the "6" out of Gettysburg to avoid confusion (it starts with a 6 neutral sitting there), enhanced the bonus area color shadings, and gotten rid of the faux paper folds.

show: third draft since revised


Martin Riggs: I feel I ought to remain as faithful to the actual battle as I can, and much more action took place far south (i.e. Round Top) than north of the town. One would need an awfully bad drop to not be within two of Gettysburg. Therefore I'm inclined to not attempt the fix you suggested. I'd like to hear if others agree with this decision or think the town ought to be more centered.
Last edited by Minister X on Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Gettysburg [31/7/2011] V 1 pg 2

Postby sannemanrobinson on Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:06 pm

sannemanrobinson wrote:The legend mentions a conditional autodeploy which is not possible (yet). You could use a normal bonus for holding Gettysburg+surrounding region.


You still have a conditional autodeploy in the city (hold Gettysburg + two bonus zones). This is not possible. Why would this reflect reality anyway?

Farms or railroads could be starting neutrals with an autodeploy. Like a local delivery of goods.
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Re: Gettysburg [31/7/2011] V 1 pg 2

Postby Minister X on Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:30 pm

sannemanrobinson wrote:
sannemanrobinson wrote:The legend mentions a conditional autodeploy which is not possible (yet). You could use a normal bonus for holding Gettysburg+surrounding region.


You still have a conditional autodeploy in the city (hold Gettysburg + two bonus zones). This is not possible. Why would this reflect reality anyway?

Farms or railroads could be starting neutrals with an autodeploy. Like a local delivery of goods.

Thanks for reminding me. I neglected to fix it before. I'll soon put it back to a regular bonus, which is what I prefer. The reason Gettysburg is worth having in addition to the other specified road areas is that you must go through the town to accomplish anything useful. Remember, please, that we're talking campaign strategy here, not battlefield tactics. From the campaign standpoint, it does little or no good to have the roads east and west but not the road hub. The idea is to be able to establish a supply line from where you were before you arrived at Gettysburg to where you want to go when you leave. For either side that means having to hold the city.

Why extra troops? Other than victory conditions, I can't think of anything else as a reward. But there's rationale beyond that. If Lee had been able to secure the town and a road forward he'd have brought up some more troops and lots more supplies (which makes the existing troops worth more). If all he had was a road in, he'd have retreated back down it. (That's exactly what he did.) He could not afford to wage a long invasion - he needed to complete a quick strike. That means he needed to keep extending his supply line until he reached a valuable enough target like Harrisburg or Philadelphia.

Meade, on the other hand, didn't want to just meet Lee and beat him, he wanted to destroy the Army of Virginia. At least that's what Lincoln wanted him to do. Once Lee retreated he had possession of the town and roads needed, but he'd taken such a beating that he could not pursue. Still, it was a strategic victory - Lee's invasion had failed and he was headed south; the war could continue and eventually the Union would grind down their more dashing but less numerous and well-supplied opponents.
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Re: Gettysburg [31/7/2011] V 1 pg 2

Postby sannemanrobinson on Sun Aug 07, 2011 2:17 am

I understand u want to give a reward for holding a route to the city, the city and a route from the city. Only is the legend not very consistent in this (3 for all of To Hagerstown and to York) where there is a gap in the route. Is it an idea to draw routes on the map just like your Rome map instead of combined bonuses as stated in the legend?
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