Conquer Club

natty dread wrote:Actually, when I look at it, I really don't see how Tamar is at a disadvantage. Tamar has:

- Mana fount at distance 3 (+1)
- Village at distance 3 (+2)
- Unicorn at distance 2, Gold at distance 4 (+2)

When you compare it to Heim, who has:

- Mana fount at 3 (+1)
- Village at 4 (+2)

Look at it again. By the time Tamar can get to the gold, Heim would already have the gold and be blocking Tamar from getting it.
Heim
- Shrine and Village +2
- Mana Fount +1
- Village auto +2
- Total +5

Tamar
- Mana Fount +1
- Village auto +2
- Total +3

With the 2 extra men Heim gets - with moving those 2 from the village - Heim has a clear advantage on making sure Tamar doesn't get too far. Heim would effectively block Tamar from getting the Unicorn/Gold bonus for a couple of rounds, before he/she gets it themselves thus Tamar would not have chance. A couple of rounds later Heim would have +7 compared to Tamar's +3. and this is not counting the territory bonus. If we calculate that in Heim would get +9 while Tamar would get +6. Heim has the advantage.

isaiah40 wrote:Look at it again. By the time Tamar can get to the gold, Heim would already have the gold and be blocking Tamar from getting it.

How do you mean? Tamar has a shorter distance to that gold. Heim has 3 regular territories + Shrine in between, while Tamar only has 3 regular territories. That's 6 neutrals vs. 10 neutrals.

natty, can you please post your new version with the neutrals on it?

Yeah, in a moment.

Here

I guess that's all right. Don't forget to move that N05 ferry!

-Sully

Thank you natty! Looking at this again with the neutral values, meh, it might be okay. Personally, I'm willing to see how it works while in Beta. I'll get ian to take a look at it as well.

natty dread wrote:

isaiah40 wrote:Look at it again. By the time Tamar can get to the gold, Heim would already have the gold and be blocking Tamar from getting it.

How do you mean? Tamar has a shorter distance to that gold. Heim has 3 regular territories + Shrine in between, while Tamar only has 3 regular territories. That's 6 neutrals vs. 10 neutrals.

this is true. however, there are other factors which help heim. tamar always has to watch his back because he's so close to the ferry, so he cannot commit 100% to attacking. trees between ta01 and ta05 will aid tamar's defensive position here. the new arrangement near heim tower means that heim is much more secure than any other tower. to shorten the attack route from the s06 ferry to heim tower, can u put the he09 gnoll on s07 and maybe connect he02 to he06? if u need to retain the distance between heim tower and the shrine, then trees between he06 and he07 will do the trick.

is it possible to draw some trees between bo06 and bo09 to force boruk to make an initial choice between the village and the graveyard rather than having an easy route to both?

the independent +2 auto, plus ability to combine for either light or dark bonuses, makes the villages more desirable than gnolls, unicorns or gold. the villages ought to have 5 neutrals, while the others have 4, and not the other way round.

an oddity is the shrine at n09, which has only 3 neutrals. is this deliberate?

ian.

iancanton wrote:an oddity is the shrine at n09, which has only 3 neutrals. is this deliberate?

It is because there's also a ferry there. I figured easy movement between all the ferries was more important than having the right amount of neutrals on that shrine, especially since it's on "dark territory" where it's not of any immediate use to the nearest player.

iancanton wrote:trees between ta01 and ta05 will aid tamar's defensive position here.

Ok, I'm not opposed to this, but are you sure it won't hinder Tamar's ability to move around?

iancanton wrote: to shorten the attack route from the s06 ferry to heim tower, can u put the he09 gnoll on s07 and maybe connect he02 to he06? if u need to retain the distance between heim tower and the shrine, then trees between he06 and he07 will do the trick.

Ok this sounds good.

iancanton wrote:is it possible to draw some trees between bo06 and bo09 to force boruk to make an initial choice between the village and the graveyard rather than having an easy route to both?

I don't know about this... I'm kinda worried that this would create a closed "island" for Boruk that is way too easy to defend, and too hard for others to reach...

iancanton wrote:the independent +2 auto, plus ability to combine for either light or dark bonuses, makes the villages more desirable than gnolls, unicorns or gold. the villages ought to have 5 neutrals, while the others have 4, and not the other way round.

Sure, this sounds reasonable.

natty dread wrote:

iancanton wrote:is it possible to draw some trees between bo06 and bo09 to force boruk to make an initial choice between the village and the graveyard rather than having an easy route to both?

I don't know about this... I'm kinda worried that this would create a closed "island" for Boruk that is way too easy to defend, and too hard for others to reach...

With trees between bo06 and bo09, while it may force boruk to make a choice, it will give seketh a slight advantage in getting to the graveyard before boruk thereby limiting what boruk can do. IMHO I think we can do without the trees between bo06 and bo09.

Here's an update... not that you people deserve it.



And with neutrals

So, what next?

natty dread wrote:So, what next?

Come on guys, I'd like to get this thing moving on - I have a new awesome map idea I'd like to start but I want to get some old projects out the way first...

So, any further gameplay concerns?

I like the changes!! I have sent a pm to iancanton, so hopefully he'll be here within the next couple of days.

Couple of days have gone already...

I'm going to sticky this for now, and I'll also give ian another nudge as well.

Neat map, Natty! I like the fantasy theme.

thanks

Yea now DIS one is epic, dibs on first game. *fingers crossed*

sorry for the delay, natty.

natty dread wrote:

iancanton wrote:trees between ta01 and ta05 will aid tamar's defensive position here.

Ok, I'm not opposed to this, but are you sure it won't hinder Tamar's ability to move around?

tamar will still be the closest to a ferry, at 3 steps (same as boruk, but boruk has more neutrals). i certainly want the trees there so that tamar doesn't become everyone's favourite hit-and-run target by being only 2 steps from a ferry.

isaiah40 wrote:

natty dread wrote:

iancanton wrote:is it possible to draw some trees between bo06 and bo09 to force boruk to make an initial choice between the village and the graveyard rather than having an easy route to both?

I don't know about this... I'm kinda worried that this would create a closed "island" for Boruk that is way too easy to defend, and too hard for others to reach...

With trees between bo06 and bo09, while it may force boruk to make a choice, it will give seketh a slight advantage in getting to the graveyard before boruk thereby limiting what boruk can do. IMHO I think we can do without the trees between bo06 and bo09.

agreed.

we all like the latest update, so just add those trees beside the tamar ferry for the stamp, natty!

ian.

Yeah ok that sounds good.

the update is here

onward and upward!

ian.

thanks ian