[Abandoned] War of Wizards

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Re: War of Wizards [23.12.11] Page 4

Postby natty dread on Sun Dec 25, 2011 3:31 am

Doesn't anyone have input on the gameplay?

I'm thinking I could increase the maximum region bonus to +6 instead of +5...
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Re: War of Wizards [23.12.11] Page 4

Postby natty dread on Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:17 pm

natty_dread wrote:Doesn't anyone have input on the gameplay?

I'm thinking I could increase the maximum region bonus to +6 instead of +5...


Ok I guess if no one has any input on this, I'll just make it so and worry about it later.

Also, I guess there should be more of those forests?
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Re: War of Wizards [23.12.11] Page 4

Postby natty dread on Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:25 pm

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Re: War of Wizards [27.12.11] Page 5

Postby natty dread on Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:10 pm

Added a few more forests. Enough, too much?

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Re: War of Wizards [28.12.11] Page 5

Postby natty dread on Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:43 pm

Here's the latest version with neutral amounts shown. Any comments on the gameplay?

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Re: War of Wizards [28.12.11] Page 5

Postby isaiah40 on Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:44 pm

SO if I am reading this right, the only way to kill a wizard is to go through the Temple of Fury correct?
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Re: War of Wizards [28.12.11] Page 5

Postby natty dread on Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:23 pm

Yes.

In a nutshell, it goes like this:

You conquer some land, get some spells, and when you get the final 5th spell you'll start getting a +10 autodeploy on the 5th spell. The 5th spell can only bombard ToF though, so those troops can only be used to wear down the killer neutrals on ToF. You can also assault ToF directly, but then you'll have to waste your other troops, ones you don't get as easily. After bombarding down the neutrals on ToF, you still have to conquer it by land, before you can use it to kill the wizards of other players.

See, it's not complicated at all :mrgreen:
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Re: War of Wizards [28.12.11] Page 5

Postby Flapcake on Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:26 am

natty_dread wrote:You conquer some land, get some spells


Hi Natty

If it is meant that each player starts from a tower, then it seemed for me not to balance, some has a big advantage of their "ligth bonus" are rigth in fromt of them, while others are far to be able to assemble something.

example: Azael tower are one step from two territories that hold "gold" "hexagram" while Tamar tower have some longer way to anything. Oloch tower, two step and he can combine two ligth bonuses (btw whats the dash in Oloch tower name ?)

Just some thoughts around the gameplay.
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Re: War of Wizards [28.12.11] Page 5

Postby natty dread on Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:19 am

Which do you think are at disadvantage and why? Have you counted the amount of territories each wizard has to take to get the same bonus?
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Re: War of Wizards [28.12.11] Page 5

Postby Flapcake on Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:14 pm

natty_dread wrote:Which do you think are at disadvantage and why? Have you counted the amount of territories each wizard has to take to get the same bonus?



Yes, why I made an examble.

"example: Azael tower are one step from two territories that hold "gold" and "hexagram" while Tamar tower have some longer way to anything at all. Oloch tower, two step and he can combine two ligth bonuses"

For me It just dont look equal, I just think that if all should start from each corner, then should all have the same starting condiction. but maby its a minor thing
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Re: War of Wizards [28.12.11] Page 5

Postby natty dread on Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:28 pm

Flapcake wrote:example: Azael tower are one step from two territories that hold "gold" and "hexagram" while Tamar tower have some longer way to anything at all.


Everyone is two steps away from a mana source. Tamar does have fewer bonuses though, I can swap the gold and shrine in S2/HE7 to give him a better access.

Flapcake wrote:Oloch tower, two step and he can combine two ligth bonuses"


Oloch is a dark wizard.

Flapcake wrote:For me It just dont look equal, I just think that if all should start from each corner, then should all have the same starting condiction.


If everyone has the exact same starting conditions, it makes for boring games. The whole point is that you have to adapt your strategy according to where you start.
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Re: War of Wizards [28.12.11] Page 5

Postby Flapcake on Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:47 am

natty_dread wrote:
If everyone has the exact same starting conditions, it makes for boring games. The whole point is that you have to adapt your strategy according to where you start.


About the boring thing I can understand, I dont like games that can be won after 2-3 rounds, but that can also be of an resoult of unbalance gamaplay, it was the reason of my consern.
I can also see that no one gets "to easy" to anything on your map so it would probably not be a headline.
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Re: War of Wizards [28.12.11] Page 5

Postby Flapcake on Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:47 am

natty_dread wrote:
If everyone has the exact same starting conditions, it makes for boring games. The whole point is that you have to adapt your strategy according to where you start.


About the boring thing I can understand, I dont like games that can be won after 2-3 rounds, but that can also be of an resoult of unbalance gamaplay, it was the reason of my consern.
I can also see that no one gets "to easy" to anything on your map so it would probably not be a headline.
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Re: War of Wizards [28.12.11] Page 5

Postby natty dread on Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:00 am

Swapped the gold & shrine to give Tamar some bonus action

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Re: War of Wizards [24.11.11] Page 2

Postby natty dread on Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:36 pm

Victor Sullivan wrote:I apologize for my lack of words. Anywho, your bonuses and such seem good, the main issues gameplay-wise are going to be placement and neutrals. Let me study up a bit and get back to you.

-Sully


Still waiting... ;)
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Re: War of Wizards [7.1.12] Page 5

Postby Victor Sullivan on Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:44 pm

Haha, well, I've got a lot going on in and out of CC. Please continue to bother me (PM is best). I definitely want to get to this (and other maps in need of gameplay analysis) soon. It's just been a blaaaaaaaaahhhh time. I'm thinking most of it should settle down by the end of this week (at least my RL stuff).

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Re: War of Wizards [7.1.12] Page 5

Postby natty dread on Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:01 pm

Ok, well here's the latest image with neutral values for your convenience, whenever you want to take a look.

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Re: War of Wizards [7.1.12] Page 5

Postby natty dread on Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:39 pm

Ahem...
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Re: War of Wizards [7.1.12] Page 5

Postby Victor Sullivan on Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:17 pm

It's on my to-do list for this evening ;) Give me some time! GOSH! YOU ARE SO NEEDY!!

-Sully
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Re: War of Wizards [7.1.12] Page 5

Postby natty dread on Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:19 pm

YOUR MOM IS NEEDY :o

That's right, I said it!
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Re: War of Wizards [7.1.12] Page 5

Postby Victor Sullivan on Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:29 pm

natty_dread wrote:YOUR MOM IS NEEDY :o

That's right, I said it!

It's true... :cry:

-Sully
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Re: War of Wizards [7.1.12] Page 5

Postby Victor Sullivan on Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:00 am

Sorry it took me so long. My internet is giving me more shit than a flock of birds after lunch.

Looking at things now... Well, things don't look so balanced. Merin is at an inherent disadvantage, since Aris has nowhere to go but into Merin territory, and anything that could be considered "Merin's", could just as easily be Aris' or Seketh's. Sure, Seketh could go into Boruk territory, but it seems to me the are more bonuses to be had if he were to go toward Merin than Boruk. Aris has a decent advantage, as Aris can secure its territory pretty quickly and easily, as it can hold all the way up to Amun, N04, and N05 and guard all of that territory with 3 regions, though it has to get all the way to N05 to really branch into other territory besides Merin's. Boruk, similar to Aris somewhat, is essentially forced to go into Seketh territory, as the steep cost of going into Azael really isn't worth it - and Boruk can secure his land pretty easily if he gets up to Se09, considering Azael is not going to take upon itself the burden of breaking Boruk by going through 12 neutrals. Azael seems to be in a prime spot. Right off the bat he can get Mana8 for a +1 then Az07 for an additional +2; take Az06, then make your way to Zevar and S13 and you've got a +6 and an auto-deploy +2 virtually uncontested, assuming Oloch doesn't bolt to Zevar from the get go. Oloch can similarly get quick bonuses with Mana7, Ol05, Ol07, and Gar, though its position is less peripheral than Azael. Heim... Heim really has one of two options: race to S02 to block Tamar (unlikely, because Tamar has less neutrals to go through) or hit Ethol and enter Oloch territory - neither of which is great. And Heim doesn't really have many bonuses to speak of in its area. Tamar's strategy can really only be hit Mana5, Ta08, then S02, then it's kind of stuck.

Solutions, solutions... I suggest extending Ta05 to the coast, then move the ferry from Ta04 to Ta05. Next, put a bridge between Ta04 and Mana1, then perhaps switch the unicorn at Ar05 with the mana fount at Mana1. Next, reduce all ferry regions to 2 neutrals instead of 6, with the exception of N09 which can just be reduced to 4. Next, move the shrine at S04 to S06. Next, hm... Wait. I think we may have a more serious issue here. I think the Light bonuses aren't as feasible to achieve as the Dark bonuses. The 2 Mana Fount bonus and the 2 Village, 1 Shrine bonus just seem excessively difficult to get in comparison to the much easier Dark bonuses. I suppose this is remedied somewhat by Spirit Guard, but... I dunno. Perhaps you could expound on this some, natty. Anyway, I'll think of some other changes and re-review, if you so choose to implement my suggestions. I think a solid back-and-forth discussion would be good to hammer this out.

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Re: War of Wizards [7.1.12] Page 5

Postby natty dread on Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:10 am

Victor Sullivan wrote:I suggest extending Ta05 to the coast, then move the ferry from Ta04 to Ta05. Next, put a bridge between Ta04 and Mana1


Ok, this really can't be done... the two land masses need to be separated so that it's clear which areas belong to the southern and which to the northern land mass. So no bridges between them... I think we need to figure out some alternate solution for this one...

Victor Sullivan wrote:Next, reduce all ferry regions to 2 neutrals instead of 6, with the exception of N09 which can just be reduced to 4.


How about 3 for all? Except ports which stay as 6:s.

Victor Sullivan wrote:Next, move the shrine at S04 to S06.


Sure.

Victor Sullivan wrote:Wait. I think we may have a more serious issue here. I think the Light bonuses aren't as feasible to achieve as the Dark bonuses. The 2 Mana Fount bonus and the 2 Village, 1 Shrine bonus just seem excessively difficult to get in comparison to the much easier Dark bonuses.


I can change the bonus to 1 village + 1 shrine and make it +2. Other than that, the dark bonuses aren't all so easy either... all of the dark bonuses require some commodity which is heavily contested, such as village, mana or tower. A dark player can get one bonus of each relatively easily, but more than that requires conquering some enemy land...

Victor Sullivan wrote:Anyway, I'll think of some other changes and re-review, if you so choose to implement my suggestions. I think a solid back-and-forth discussion would be good to hammer this out.


Yep, sounds good. I'll do the changes I've mentioned here and we can work it out from there.
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Re: War of Wizards [7.1.12] Page 5

Postby natty dread on Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:10 am

Hey look, an update.

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Without numbers:

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Oh, I also reduced the neutrals on the 2nd dark spell to the same as the 2nd light spell - although it gives higher bonus, graveyards are harder to come by than shrines, so I think that already offsets it.
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Re: War of Wizards [15.1.12] Page 6

Postby isaiah40 on Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:52 pm

Looking at this, right now I believe that the neutrals on the top three levels are a little high. Based on the amount of men you will receive each turn won't be enough to take them. From level 3 in order up maybe, 10, 15, 25 neutrals, and the Temple of fury can have 50 neutrals. I believe this would still make it hard to get them, but not impossible. I'll comment later as I get my head around the bonuses.

Edit: Tamar tower is at a disadvantage in getting to the shrine. There is 20 neutrals to get there, while Heirn tower only has to go through 8 neutrals. A really big difference. My suggestion would be to swap the gold and shrine around. That would mean 15 and 12 neutrals respectively. A little bit more even for both players. Plus in this way the Heirn player can block the Tamar player from collecting the unicorn+gold bonus. Also, Seketh Tower has 8 neutrals to the graveyard, while Boruk Tower has 12 neutrals. Swap the graveyard with Bo05 and both will have to go thorough 10 neutrals a piece. This is all I have for now.
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