Version 11.5.1 FRANCE 2.1 - Poll 4

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4) Can adjacent territories attack Foreign Claim. Foreign claim could bombard Paris in return

Poll ended at Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:31 am

Yes
26
76%
No
8
24%
No opinion
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 34

Re: FRANCE 2.1 - Version 10.4 [20 February 2013] pg 21/21

Postby Lancelot du Lac on Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:37 pm

Here I drew the dark side of the mountain on the same side as the shadows. ;)


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VERSION 10.4
1. Map Name France 2.1
2. Version 10.4 [20 February 2013]
3. Dimension : 915 * 927
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Re: FRANCE 2.1 - Version 10.3 [19 February 2013] pg 20/20

Postby jghost7 on Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:20 am

Can someone answer this for me? As I understand it, Wallonie would start neutral. If Nord can attack Wallonie, then wouldn't a line work better than an arrow?


jghost7 wrote:So, can Nord attack Wallonie to bombard Paris?
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Re: FRANCE 2.1 - Version 10.4 [20 February 2013] pg 21/21

Postby Mishalex on Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:12 am

Sorry, no Nord can't attack Wallonie, only Paris can.

Same for the other foreign claims
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Re: FRANCE 2.1 - Version 10.4 [20 February 2013] pg 21/21

Postby jghost7 on Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:15 pm

Mishalex wrote:Sorry, no Nord can't attack Wallonie, only Paris can.

Same for the other foreign claims



What is the point of the foreign claims then? What is the point of having them bombard Paris? The whole point was to be able to try to break the winning condition.

As it stands, nearly all of the Winning Condition is centralized. Allowing atleast bombing access from afar would be a step to mitigate that. Frankly, I think that it would be better if Paris doesn't attack the Foreign Claims at all, maybe just bombard. That gives the foreign claims a purpose. Have them to be assaultable only from their home region, ie Nord to Wallonie.

Anyways, thanks for the answer. I am looking forward to trying this map.


Thanks,

J
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Re: FRANCE 2.1 - Version 10.2 [18 January 2013] pg 18/18

Postby RedBaron0 on Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:20 pm

I go back to this post from RJ:

RjBeals wrote:you may want to clean up the borders also. It looks unfinished where the rivers meet the sea.

Image


If you could make the outer edge of the map look as good as he did... you're really be set. On that note of the rivers though, I'm not too sure about the outline around the river, perhaps instead of black, a dark blue? Or even think of dropping the outline entirely?

The mountains do look worlds better, I'm still not in love with the unnaturally stretched look of the tallest mountains.... but will let it go as long as no one else is bothered by it.

I agree with the look of the coastline by the Pas de Calis, there is an unnatural sharp angle there, 2 actually, that could stand to be at least rounded out. And as I look at it a lot of the west and northern coastline have a angled or sharp edges that just don't look very good. Brittany isn't that bad, but Normandy and the rest of the coastline along the Bay of Biscay and the Med have these angled and sharp edges. I point at the minimap to make my point the coastlines there much much better. This may go back to my first comment on the coastlines. If I didn't know any better I'd say you have used a lot of vectoring to draw those outlines. No matter how you've drown them, you're best bet for making them look better, natural, is to zoom in, and draw them in by hand. You'll get that natural jitteryness of a coastline by doing so, and while I know it's tedious... its worth it.
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Re: FRANCE 2.1 - Version 10.2 [18 January 2013] pg 18/18

Postby Mishalex on Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:03 pm

RedBaron0 wrote:I go back to this post from RJ:

RjBeals wrote:you may want to clean up the borders also. It looks unfinished where the rivers meet the sea.

Image


If you could make the outer edge of the map look as good as he did... you're really be set. On that note of the rivers though, I'm not too sure about the outline around the river, perhaps instead of black, a dark blue? Or even think of dropping the outline entirely?

The mountains do look worlds better, I'm still not in love with the unnaturally stretched look of the tallest mountains.... but will let it go as long as no one else is bothered by it.

I agree with the look of the coastline by the Pas de Calis, there is an unnatural sharp angle there, 2 actually, that could stand to be at least rounded out. And as I look at it a lot of the west and northern coastline have a angled or sharp edges that just don't look very good. Brittany isn't that bad, but Normandy and the rest of the coastline along the Bay of Biscay and the Med have these angled and sharp edges. I point at the minimap to make my point the coastlines there much much better. This may go back to my first comment on the coastlines. If I didn't know any better I'd say you have used a lot of vectoring to draw those outlines. No matter how you've drown them, you're best bet for making them look better, natural, is to zoom in, and draw them in by hand. You'll get that natural jitteryness of a coastline by doing so, and while I know it's tedious... its worth it.


Hi Baron,

For the Loire meeting the sea, LdL have done the modifications on the last map...

For the river borders, it's a talk we already have 6 month earlier, and we decided to keep it that way...

Now, regarding the main problem, the coast line, it's effectively a problem, cause it's a hard hard work to do it... So maybe LdL did it approximatelly, but it's close to the reality... Let's see what LdL say about it...

Thanks for your notices, butin my opinion, it's very difficult for us to see people talking again on subjects that have been discussed way earlier...
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Re: FRANCE 2.1 - Version 10.4 [20 February 2013] pg 21/21

Postby Lancelot du Lac on Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:09 pm

Indeed, posting should look at the history of the discussion. See if the topic has not already been discussed. Since 6 months, made ​​and unmade the same things.
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Re: FRANCE 2.1 - Version 10.2 [18 January 2013] pg 18/18

Postby RjBeals on Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:21 pm

Lancelot du Lac wrote:Normally, the graphics have already been validated there more than a month.

The problem is that now I have to do everything twice on the big and small map.

We can always find things again, again and again. Now it is my last updates.


This was the response to the borders. You're only response was that you didn't want to have to do things again and again. If multiple people point out an issue, shouldn't you address it or have a "better" reason for not ?
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Re: FRANCE 2.0 - Version 9.1 [11 October 2012] pg 13/13

Postby Lancelot du Lac on Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:50 am

Lancelot du Lac wrote:FRANCE 2.0 - Version 9.1 [11 October 2012] pg 13/13
koontz1973 wrote:Rivers, they are massive in places. Some like the one between Gard and Bouche de rhone are nice. Can we get the others at a similar width?

pamoa wrote:I would also add a thin dark grey line around the rivers

Last picture, is it ok for you ?
- standardize rivers
- add a black border on rivers


Do I have to remove again the borders rivers?

You can see the version 9.1 and see rivers without borders.Is this what you want?
Are you the only one to think like that, or me wanting more does one a month to do borders?
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Re: FRANCE 2.1 - Version 10.4 [20 February 2013] pg 21/21

Postby RjBeals on Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:38 am

Image

You want the rivers to look like they're part of the map right? Not drawn in on top, or an afterthought. Either take the borders off, or add them to the coast line to match. That's my opinion. If you wait a month, this post will still be here. If anyone looks back over the thread, they will see this and may feel the same way. Waiting doesn't make graphical critiques disappear.

In all honesty - this map looks very novice.
The title is about a 10 second job with no creativity. One of the worst I've seen.
The mountains still look bad. Clipart that doesn't fit well.
The region font is nothing special and hard to read in places.
The mini-map looks out of place, like an island.
The legend is bland.

You shouldn't be so quick to dismiss critiques. I would think you would want to improve your skills.

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Re: FRANCE 2.1 - Version 10.4 [20 February 2013] pg 21/21

Postby Lancelot du Lac on Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:03 am

Thank you for discussing these issues throughout the discussion. This is very constructive from you.

None of your three images corresponds to the current version of the map.


Now I prefer to abandon the project rather than to hear that kind of thinking. I did this for fun

ciao
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Re: FRANCE 2.1 - Version 10.4 [20 February 2013] pg 21/21

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:50 am

Lancelot du Lac wrote:Now I prefer to abandon the project rather than to hear that kind of thinking. I did this for fun

ciao


Lancelot, believe me when I say, I know how you feel. Many many times I have wanted to abandon a project because of people. I can only guess how many hours have gone into this so please do not take anything personal and please do not waste your efforts. You are right that map making should be fun and it is on the most part. Oneyed has been asked to do things to his first map just before it goes into beta, numerous times. I also, have been asked to do things to Labs map, only to be told to change it back. These are part of the course for map making.

We cannot please everyone, but you need to address the points made by RJ and others. These seem little things and may take a while to get right, but a little more time to get something right compared to the time you have already spent on it is a small amount of time. Worse comes to worse, take a break and come back fresh in a month or two with an update. Clearer heads will prevail. Would be a huge shame to see a map this far get abandoned over the final things.
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Re: FRANCE 2.1 - Version 10.4 [20 February 2013] pg 21/21

Postby isaiah40 on Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:12 pm

koontz has it correct, all critiques have to be addressed and given a good answer as to why you don't want something done or on the map. As koontz said, we mapmakers have had to redo things many times before it was accepted. Go and read through my Fractured America thread, and you will see how many times I redid the background for each bonus region.

As for the mountains, I agree with RjBeals on this, you can go and see his tutorial for hand drawn mountains. Go and read through it and experiment. If you have trouble I know the RjBeals would be more than happy to help you out.

For the rivers, after I have looked at them very hard, I believe that they would be better (and easily done) if they where the same as the rest of the water. Al you would have to do is select the river with the magic wand tool, then select the land area and hit the delete key. You would then hide the river layer, and you have the river the same as the rest of the water.
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Re: FRANCE 2.1 - Version 10.4 [20 February 2013] pg 21/21

Postby arno30 on Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:49 am

come on lancelot, come on mishalex !

if you don't do it for you, do it for your country !

:-({|=
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Re: FRANCE 2.1 - Version 10.4 [20 February 2013] pg 21/21

Postby Lancelot du Lac on Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:46 pm

isaiah40 wrote:koontz has it correct, all critiques have to be addressed and given a good answer as to why you don't want something done or on the map. As koontz said, we mapmakers have had to redo things many times before it was accepted. Go and read through my Fractured America thread, and you will see how many times I redid the background for each bonus region.

As for the mountains, I agree with RjBeals on this, you can go and see his tutorial for hand drawn mountains. Go and read through it and experiment. If you have trouble I know the RjBeals would be more than happy to help you out.

For the rivers, after I have looked at them very hard, I believe that they would be better (and easily done) if they where the same as the rest of the water. Al you would have to do is select the river with the magic wand tool, then select the land area and hit the delete key. You would then hide the river layer, and you have the river the same as the rest of the water.


I am working for these
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Re: FRANCE 2.1 - Version 10.4 [20 February 2013] pg 21/21

Postby iancanton on Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:57 pm

on the mini-map, the new 3-letter abbreviations for the départements look much neater than the previous ones. u chose to have PC instead of POI; this is fine, as long as u think that players will not confuse PC with PIC. ILE for île-de-france is missing.

for the three pyrenées départements, u have room to write the word pyrenées in full.

on the inset map for île-de-france, the font is too small. if possible, make it the same size as on the main map. u have enough room to write paris (which is currently missing), yvelines, essonne and val-d'oise in full. how will u show suburbs 2, 3 and 4 in the xml? something like 2 hauts-de-seine?

the colour of the rivers must match the colour of the sea, otherwise it looks as if there's a line between the rivers and the sea.

although i'm no graphics expert, i like the exaggerated mountains except for the vosges which, from a distance, look the same size and in a straight line.

ian. :)
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Re: FRANCE 2.1 - Version 10.4 [20 February 2013] pg 21/21

Postby isaiah40 on Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:13 am

[Moved]

Two fortnightly review periods have passed without any updates or meaningful engagement from the mapmaker(s),therefore the map is considered stalled. If the mapmaker wants to continue with the map, then one of the Foundry Moderators will be able to help put the thread back into the Foundry system, after an update has been made. ;)
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Re: [Vacation - valid until Sept 2013] FRANCE 2.1

Postby Lancelot du Lac on Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:15 pm

Hello,

Lancelot is alive =D>

Here are some updates before continuing, I need your comments.

1. I redid the Atlantic seaboard. The border is more rounded. I think doing the same thing with the Mediterranean.
Image

Image

Image




2. The minimap is updated with the 3-letter abbreviations for all regions.
Image

3. I remade the focus on Paris. It is expanded: removing of neighboring regions + writing the names of departments.
Image

4. Name of the department "Pyrénées" write in full.
Image

5. I wonder whether it is useful to keep the black border regions. It seems he does nothing.

6. Mishalex is working on the mountains. From my side I'm working on riveres and sea.

Thank you for your patience and good help.
Last edited by Lancelot du Lac on Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [Vacation - valid until Sept 2013] FRANCE 2.1

Postby Lancelot du Lac on Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:59 pm

Lancelot du Lac wrote: I think doing the same thing with the Mediterranean.

I redrew the Mediterranean coast. It is more rounded.

Lancelot du Lac wrote:From my side I'm working on riveres and sea.

I also redrew the arrival of the river to the sea. Now, this clearer for the river.



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Re: FRANCE 2.1

Postby koontz1973 on Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:44 am

Guys, glad to see this being worked on. need a full update to get this back into the foundry.
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Re: FRANCE 2.1

Postby RjBeals on Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:35 pm

are you using photoshop? Send me the psd and I can try and help

rob (dot) beals at gmail (dot) com
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Re: FRANCE 2.1

Postby RjBeals on Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:43 pm

Let's do this Lance.
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Re: FRANCE 2.1

Postby RjBeals on Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:20 am

Lance, do you mind if we discuss in the thread instead of PM?

I really tried to work with your illustrator file, but I cant. I'm not sure how you built the map, but there's so many layers with masks, I can't really isolate borders or regions. Even when I try to ungroup, it's just boxes and shapes everywhere. You said there was a newer file out there, is it cleaner than the one you sent me?
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Re: FRANCE 2.1

Postby iAmCaffeine on Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:33 am

Probably too late to bring this up, but I'm definitely going to miss the current France map if this is going to be the replacement. Apart from the fact it brings completely different gameplay, it doesn't really offer much graphic-wise compared to the current map, if anything at all.

Also, am I the only person that dislikes maps full of many open bonuses?
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Re: FRANCE 2.1

Postby nolefan5311 on Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:51 am

iAmCaffeine wrote:Probably too late to bring this up, but I'm definitely going to miss the current France map if this is going to be the replacement. Apart from the fact it brings completely different gameplay, it doesn't really offer much graphic-wise compared to the current map, if anything at all.

Also, am I the only person that dislikes maps full of many open bonuses?


As far as I know, it's not intended to replace the current France map.
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