[Abandoned] - CONQUERSHIP (1v1 map)

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Re: CONQUERSHIP 1v1 Map v.1 [26 DEC 2011] - New 1v1 gameplay

Postby koontz1973 on Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:27 am

With the change from the original idea to this, what is missing game play wise for the 2 player option. I seem to remember telephones and such like for something.
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Re: CONQUERSHIP 1v1 Map v.1 [26 DEC 2011]

Postby DiM on Tue Dec 27, 2011 7:21 am

lostatlimbo wrote:Also, please note that sea cells can only bombard adjacent ship cells - they could not reinforce them regardless of the setting.


indeed. i must have misread that bit.
i may be the only one cause english is not my main language but the instructions kinda remind me of "she sells sea shells by the sea shore" and somehow it's hard to read. perhaps use another word instead of cells. :lol:
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Re: CONQUERSHIP 1v1 Map v.1 [26 DEC 2011] - New 1v1 gameplay

Postby lostatlimbo on Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:41 am

koontz1973 wrote:With the change from the original idea to this, what is missing game play wise for the 2 player option. I seem to remember telephones and such like for something.


Those map elements that were only necessary when the gameplays were split.
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Re: CONQUERSHIP 1v1 Map v.1 [26 DEC 2011]

Postby lostatlimbo on Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:41 am

DiM wrote:indeed. i must have misread that bit.
i may be the only one cause english is not my main language but the instructions kinda remind me of "she sells sea shells by the sea shore" and somehow it's hard to read. perhaps use another word instead of cells. :lol:



Haha. Fair enough.
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Re: CONQUERSHIP 1v1 Map v.1 [26 DEC 2011] - New 1v1 gameplay

Postby koontz1973 on Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:18 pm

Correct me if I am wrong on this, but if I go first, I can bombard the other players ships from my ships or any sea territ I hold next to there ships. If this is correct, then there is a good chance I can win the game first turn.
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Re: CONQUERSHIP 1v1 Map v.1 [26 DEC 2011] - New 1v1 gameplay

Postby lostatlimbo on Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:58 pm

FYI, I'm just waiting for Sully to return and add in his thoughts before making any changes or suggestions.
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Re: CONQUERSHIP 1v1 Map v.1 [26 DEC 2011] - New 1v1 gameplay

Postby Victor Sullivan on Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:03 pm

And here he is!

Valid points all around, therefore I suggest the following:

I discussed with lostatlimbo previously via PM about a set-up where ship cells of one type of ship could only bombard the ship cells of the same type of ship on the other side, and that each coordinate could bombard the corresponding coordinate on the other side of the map (therefore allowing some sea cells on one side to be able to bombard ship cells on the other side). lostatlimbo, however, disagreed, saying it was too open. Valid point, so we changed it to this. Suppose we do a compromise by adding "bombard zones" where only sea cells with corresponding ship cells may bombard across the divider. That's a poor explanation of it, so I've provided a visual aid to help explain my proposal:
show
Obviously we'd have to make some amendments to the current draft, as the Carriers overlap and I think a white peg or two interfere as well.

Thoughts?

-Sully
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Re: CONQUERSHIP 1v1 Map v.1 [26 DEC 2011] - New 1v1 gameplay

Postby lostatlimbo on Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:55 pm

I'd be okay with that, but does it sufficiently address the unequal starts concerns? Theoretically, you could still go to town on each ship individually and doesn't the cross-board bombardment just potentially add more troops from which to attack a ship on 1st turn?
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Re: CONQUERSHIP 1v1 Map v.1 [26 DEC 2011] - New 1v1 gameplay

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:36 am

With Sullys amendment, it would still be possible for me to bombard ship to ship, right. So with the added sea cells from my side and any sea cell I have by the opposing ship, it has made it easier for me to win first turn. Not harder.

Coming up with a solution, maybe look at Arms Race. That is the only other map that has this style of play and has the rockets on each side. You could easily add something like that to this but in the sense of a navy gun.

So you could add territs like

Armory
lift
powder
shell
aiming

That gives you 5 territs that can be attacked by any ship starting at the armory and working up.
Give big enough neutrals to stop it happening straight away but a good sized bonus for holding all of them.

So a game would go one of two ways. An all out attempt of reaching the last part of the shell or an all out attempt of gaining a foothold on the opposing players sea cells. This then allows you to bombard the ships and win. With the cross board shelling, you could have it as a ship can only bombard its opposite cell. In your current draft, B3 is held by both carriers, so this would be able to bombard each side, taking out the bonus. Moving the ships around so only one or two ship territs correspond would then allow players to hit the ships but not sink them. So red A1 can only hit Green A1 and only if both held a ship.

Having a bonus of +1 per ship that has a territ in is to easy to hold. Have it that you need to hold all the territs for the ship and give a decent bonus depending on the size of ship.

Hope I made myself clear.

EDIT: It might also be nice to be able to remove troops from the ships. Almost as if the are abandoning a sinking ship or disembarking in boats to attack.
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Re: CONQUERSHIP 1v1 Map v.1 [26 DEC 2011] - New 1v1 gameplay

Postby Victor Sullivan on Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:01 am

lostatlimbo wrote:I'd be okay with that, but does it sufficiently address the unequal starts concerns?

To an extent, to say the least. They would have to be more strategic with their troop placement (since they wouldn't be able to drop all on one sea cell).


lostatlimbo wrote: Theoretically, you could still go to town on each ship individually and doesn't the cross-board bombardment just potentially add more troops from which to attack a ship on 1st turn?

No, I'd adjust neutrals or starting positions to fix that.

@koontz: I'm not too keen on straying that far away from the original concept, but I understand your concerns. I'll think on this more.

-Sully
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Re: CONQUERSHIP 1v1 Map v.1 [26 DEC 2011] - New 1v1 gameplay

Postby koontz1973 on Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:19 am

Victor Sullivan wrote:@koontz: I'm not too keen on straying that far away from the original concept, but I understand your concerns. I'll think on this more.

-Sully

You might have to stray far from the original concept. As long as you have cross over bombardments from the ships, you will get round one knock outs.
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Re: CONQUERSHIP 1v1 Map v.1 [26 DEC 2011] - New 1v1 gameplay

Postby isaiah40 on Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:39 am

Oooops! I forgot something! So here is your approved supersize status!
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Re: CONQUERSHIP 1v1 Map v.1 [26 DEC 2011] - New 1v1 gameplay

Postby lostatlimbo on Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:37 pm

Thanks Isaiah!

I'll make an update to this soon.
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Re: CONQUERSHIP 1v1 Map v.1 [26 DEC 2011] - New 1v1 gameplay

Postby Victor Sullivan on Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:33 am

koontz1973 wrote:
Victor Sullivan wrote:@koontz: I'm not too keen on straying that far away from the original concept, but I understand your concerns. I'll think on this more.

-Sully

You might have to stray far from the original concept. As long as you have cross over bombardments from the ships, you will get round one knock outs.

I understand that we may have to stray away, but my intent is to not stray far.

-Sully
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Re: CONQUERSHIP 1v1 Map v.1 [26 DEC 2011] - New 1v1 gameplay

Postby koontz1973 on Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:48 am

Victor Sullivan wrote:
koontz1973 wrote:
Victor Sullivan wrote:@koontz: I'm not too keen on straying that far away from the original concept, but I understand your concerns. I'll think on this more.

-Sully

You might have to stray far from the original concept. As long as you have cross over bombardments from the ships, you will get round one knock outs.

I understand that we may have to stray away, but my intent is to not stray far.

-Sully

You had the telephones in the original (which I cannot see). Why not try to integrate those into the gameplay again. Bung a 15 neutral on them and you solve your problem. Only allow the telephone to assault ships (to signify the onset of war). You could easily place them in the middle of the board. This would solve all problems including manual deployment.
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Re: CONQUERSHIP 1v1 Map v.1 [26 DEC 2011] - New 1v1 gameplay

Postby Industrial Helix on Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:09 pm

Well, now that this map is gonna be a 1v1 map, it seems to make a little more sense. I'm going to sticky this and we'll see if that gsthers some interest and comments.
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Re: CONQUERSHIP 1v1 Map v.1 [26 DEC 2011] - New 1v1 gameplay

Postby lostatlimbo on Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:00 am

I'm with Sully on this one. At first I was resistant to drop all those extra elements, but now I favor the simpler gameplay and how on theme it is.

I've been delaying an edit on this because I think we can get to a fair drop gameplay without those extra pieces. Just waiting on some inspiration. :)
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Re: CONQUERSHIP 1v1 Map v.1 [26 DEC 2011] - New 1v1 gameplay

Postby lostatlimbo on Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:01 am

Industrial Helix wrote:Well, now that this map is gonna be a 1v1 map, it seems to make a little more sense. I'm going to sticky this and we'll see if that gsthers some interest and comments.


Thanks Helix!
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Re: CONQUERSHIP 1v1 Map v.2 [8 DEC 2012] - Fair Drop Targets

Postby lostatlimbo on Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:44 am

I made the update Sully suggested ( HERE), but after toying with the map all night, inspiration finally struck.

In order to limit first player advantage, I added an element to bottleneck assaults on the opposing ships - currently in the form of a target. The idea is that you first must locate your opponent's ships (one way assault from your ship to same color target on the opposite side), before bombarding any of your opponent's ship cells (one way bombardment from that target to opponent's ships).

This way, first player can only use some armies in his first bombardment. I've started with 2 each, but I can add more and/or set a high (or killer) neutral there as needed. No other territories can assault the targets - only the ships of the same color.

It still keeps all the basic elements of the previous version. You can bombard any of your opponents ships, just not all at once.

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Re: CONQUERSHIP 1v1 Map v.2 [8 DEC 2012] - Fair Drop Targets

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:28 am

lostatlimbo wrote:I made the update Sully suggested ( HERE), but after toying with the map all night, inspiration finally struck.
In order to limit first player advantage, I added an element to bottleneck assaults on the opposing ships - currently in the form of a target. The idea is that you first must locate your opponent's ships (one way assault from your ship to same color target on the opposite side), before bombarding any of your opponent's ship cells (one way bombardment from that target to opponent's ships).
This way, first player can only use some armies in his first bombardment. I've started with 2 each, but I can add more and/or set a high (or killer) neutral there as needed. No other territories can assault the targets - only the ships of the same color.
It still keeps all the basic elements of the previous version. You can bombard any of your opponents ships, just not all at once.

Very nice idea. Had it last page but had the telephones instead of targets. ;)
You will need at least a 15 neutral but have it as a decay and not a killer. The killer would mean to many long games. As you want to have these as impassables, remove the white dots and have these instead.
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Re: CONQUERSHIP 1v1 Map v.2 [8 DEC 2012] - First Turn Soluti

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:35 am

I like the target idea. It fits within the theme and I think from the sound of it so far, makes sense from a gameplay perspective.


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Re: CONQUERSHIP 1v1 Map v.2 [8 DEC 2012] - First Turn Soluti

Postby Victor Sullivan on Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:26 pm

Hm, looks all right to me... The target at B4 would have to be moved to B5, however.

-Sully
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Re: CONQUERSHIP 1v1 Map v.2 [8 DEC 2012] - First Turn Soluti

Postby Industrial Helix on Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:21 pm

Ka-kow! its red ink!

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Re: CONQUERSHIP 1v1 Map v.2 [8 DEC 2012] - First Turn Soluti

Postby Victor Sullivan on Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:49 pm

Huzzah! Thanks, Helix! :)

-Sully
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Re: CONQUERSHIP 1v1 Map v.2 [8 DEC 2012] - First Turn Soluti

Postby lostatlimbo on Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:17 am

Sweetness! I'll move that target and make a draft update soon.

Looking forward to more feedback on this one.
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Medals: 27
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Assassin Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2)
Ratings Achievement (1) Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (2) Map Contribution (1) Tournament Contribution (8)

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