[Abandoned] Mississippi Magnolia St

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Re: Mississippi Magnolia State Map

Postby VicFontaine on Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:30 pm

WILLIAMS5232 wrote:
VicFontaine wrote:"Black R.," and all terts labeled with a "R.," next to it, are RIVER terts. Because Mississippi has great rivers and great counties, I blended both for naming purposes. Some terts, like my own County of "Rankin," are, more-or-less relative to that counties' location in reality. Same with the rivers. "Black R.," is "Black River" rather than a county name. That is, the actual waterway "Black River" flows through that general location in Mississippi.


oh, i was assuming you were talking about "black creek" and was going to be a stickler and suggest you make it that. after further research though, i've learned there is actually a "black river" in ms as well. :oops:


You're one of the ones Haley Barbour booted from the state, no doubt. SHEESH. :)

Yes, there is a Black River.
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Re: Mississippi Magnolia State Map

Postby VicFontaine on Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:51 pm

UPDATE AS OF FEBRUARY 26, 2012.

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STILL TO DO: (probably in order of importance):

1) Textures for the colorblind in keeping with the theme, which we're still deciding. I'm leaning towards "history," i.e., Civil War images, Indian images (that would be, depending on how "PC" you are: "First-Peoples" or "Native Americans"), etc. Will discuss with the Designer before we make that certain.
2) A few things moved around and clarified, such as the Steamboats' attack routes clarified (they go north and south both, not just south, in attack)
3) Some graphics are only there until we decide something better (again, like the Steamboats' attack routes)
4) We're considering another Cultural Treasure that has to do with the Indians, or with "hunting," the latter being listed in the legend under "Cultural Treasures" but found no where on the map.
5) Some graphics aren't there yet, but aren't necessary for gameplay.
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Re: Mississippi Magnolia State Map

Postby WILLIAMS5232 on Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:13 pm

VicFontaine wrote:
WILLIAMS5232 wrote:
VicFontaine wrote:"Black R.," and all terts labeled with a "R.," next to it, are RIVER terts. Because Mississippi has great rivers and great counties, I blended both for naming purposes. Some terts, like my own County of "Rankin," are, more-or-less relative to that counties' location in reality. Same with the rivers. "Black R.," is "Black River" rather than a county name. That is, the actual waterway "Black River" flows through that general location in Mississippi.


oh, i was assuming you were talking about "black creek" and was going to be a stickler and suggest you make it that. after further research though, i've learned there is actually a "black river" in ms as well. :oops:


You're one of the ones Haley Barbour booted from the state, no doubt. SHEESH. :)

Yes, there is a Black River.


easy there vic, if you want to get technical the black river runs into the mississippi at vicksburg. so for me to think that you put black river in black creeks general location is not too far off. and also since we're on topic, you may also note that the although the leaf river and the pascagula river are the same, where you have it placed would be more of the pascagula rivers location. it's just that's the areas i'm from. when i go home i still float the black and red creeks and fish in the pascagula river swamp. it's all the same vicinity. i'm from mchenry area. near wiggins. i know they have tvs and all in jackson, so i would have figured you knew that. and dang, you got biloxi set up in moss point. biloxi and gulfport actually border each other. :roll:

you must be one of the ones haley barbour kept and educated. :lol: =D>

i'm just kidding. i was educated there too. don't take it so hard :evil:
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Re: Mississippi Magnolia State Map

Postby VicFontaine on Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:21 pm

WILLIAMS5232 wrote:
VicFontaine wrote:
WILLIAMS5232 wrote:
VicFontaine wrote:"Black R.," and all terts labeled with a "R.," next to it, are RIVER terts. Because Mississippi has great rivers and great counties, I blended both for naming purposes. Some terts, like my own County of "Rankin," are, more-or-less relative to that counties' location in reality. Same with the rivers. "Black R.," is "Black River" rather than a county name. That is, the actual waterway "Black River" flows through that general location in Mississippi.


oh, i was assuming you were talking about "black creek" and was going to be a stickler and suggest you make it that. after further research though, i've learned there is actually a "black river" in ms as well. :oops:


You're one of the ones Haley Barbour booted from the state, no doubt. SHEESH. :)

Yes, there is a Black River.


easy there vic, if you want to get technical the black river runs into the mississippi at vicksburg. so for me to think that you put black river in black creeks general location is not too far off. and also since we're on topic, you may also note that the although the leaf river and the pascagula river are the same, where you have it placed would be more of the pascagula rivers location. it's just that's the areas i'm from. when i go home i still float the black and red creeks and fish in the pascagula river swamp. it's all the same vicinity. i'm from mchenry area. near wiggins. i know they have tvs and all in jackson, so i would have figured you knew that. and dang, you got biloxi set up in moss point. biloxi and gulfport actually border each other. :roll:

you must be one of the ones haley barbour kept and educated. :lol: =D>

i'm just kidding. i was educated there too. don't take it so hard :evil:


:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Translation: For sure, man. I've taken liberties with the landscape in a few places (Madison and Rankin counties are not at all like the map has them, but are smaller) for the sake of gameplay. As the foundry says, function beats form every time when designing a map. Had I put Biloxi and Gulfport where they really are, it'd be very hard to play the map. There are several instances of this.

Also, look at Winona. That still needs some tweaking...for gameplay's sake! Thanks SlickWilly!
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Re: Mississippi Magnolia State Map

Postby macbone on Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:08 am

You know, for a Native America cultural treasure, you could use an Indian Mound, as in Faulkner's short story.

The Legend has a lot of text. It looks a bit cluttered there, but if I were playing the map, I'd want to know how everything worked. Could you make the information more concise?

I'm not sure which territories attack which other territories.

At first glance, it's difficult to tell which territories are the Cultural treasures (although the icons are helpful). Could you move the territory locations a bit so that they're closer to the treasures?
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Re: Mississippi Magnolia State Map

Postby Flapcake on Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:23 am

macbone wrote:You know, for a Native America cultural treasure, you could use an Indian Mound, as in Faulkner's short story.

The Legend has a lot of text. It looks a bit cluttered there, but if I were playing the map, I'd want to know how everything worked. Could you make the information more concise?

I'm not sure which territories attack which other territories.

At first glance, it's difficult to tell which territories are the Cultural treasures (although the icons are helpful). Could you move the territory locations a bit so that they're closer to the treasures?


I need to add to this: you got some 4 way borders aswell, you will have to slice them apart to tell who can atack who.

Graphics looks uber ;)
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Re: Mississippi Magnolia State Map

Postby VicFontaine on Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:08 am

macbone wrote:You know, for a Native America cultural treasure, you could use an Indian Mound, as in Faulkner's short story.


My thoughts exactly, but we can't find a good enough picture of an Indian Mound. It's still possible. The largest mound complex in North America were in Mississippi....

macbone wrote:The Legend has a lot of text. It looks a bit cluttered there, but if I were playing the map, I'd want to know how everything worked. Could you make the information more concise?


The grammar and presentation will be cleaned up, but since we're not trying to make a simple map (think more like Stalingrad), we won't sacrifice the diverse gameplay for simplicity. HOWEVER, we will endeavor to make it as simple, concise, and cogent as possible. Thanks, Mac!

macbone wrote:I'm not sure which territories attack which other territories.


Correct. I'll list this out for you, but we weren't trying to do that here as much, especially since the graphics can't support how the attacks work right now anyway. Gist is this:
1) All adjacent terts attack.
2) Terts are adjacent that are not separated by impassables (which include: interstates, regional bonus divisions)
3) Where impassables block access, cities provide access. So, cities that sit on an Interstate may, if you look, connect several territories (Memphis/Southhaven & Jackson are prime examples of this).
4) Other than this, all terts touch and attack one another.

macbone wrote:At first glance, it's difficult to tell which territories are the Cultural treasures (although the icons are helpful). Could you move the territory locations a bit so that they're closer to the treasures?


Definitely. We have hardly fine-tuned the placement of the army-markers.
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Re: Mississippi Magnolia State Map

Postby VicFontaine on Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:12 am

Flapcake wrote:I need to add to this: you got some 4 way borders as well, you will have to slice them apart to tell who can attack whom.


I don't think this is necessary, actually. If they touch, they attack. If there are "four touching," even at the corners, they attack. Just as in reality: if you were standing at Four Corners in the US, you could attack any of the three spots upon which you do not stand.

Flapcake wrote:Graphics looks uber ;)


Thank you! We are trying very hard to make an aesthetically pleasing map that non-Mississippians will appreciate and want to play. The goal is have a blast of a game with varied, diverse, and multi-layered attack and defense structures while showcasing Mississippi. I think we're accomplishing that.

I just hope this map will soon be moved to the Draft folder where the real work may begin.
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Re: Mississippi Magnolia State Map

Postby natty dread on Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:15 am

VicFontaine wrote:I don't think this is necessary, actually.


Actually, it is. 4-way borders are forbidden, as they are ambiguous to players. It's just not good gameplay design.

VicFontaine wrote:Just as in reality: if you were standing at Four Corners in the US, you could attack any of the three spots upon which you do not stand.


But, CC is not reality. It's a game. In reality battles are not decided by dice either, but in CC they are. You can't think of making CC maps in real world terms, gameplay clarity needs to come first always.
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Re: Mississippi Magnolia State Map

Postby VicFontaine on Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:53 am

natty dread wrote:
VicFontaine wrote:I don't think this is necessary, actually.


Actually, it is. 4-way borders are forbidden, as they are ambiguous to players. It's just not good gameplay design.

VicFontaine wrote:Just as in reality: if you were standing at Four Corners in the US, you could attack any of the three spots upon which you do not stand.


But, CC is not reality. It's a game. In reality battles are not decided by dice either, but in CC they are. You can't think of making CC maps in real world terms, gameplay clarity needs to come first always.


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Re: Mississippi Magnolia State Map

Postby natty dread on Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:25 pm

You could place a small impassable in the corner so that the cornering territories won't touch. This way you wouldn't have to change the real-world borders, and you'd eliminate any problems with clarity.
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Re: Mississippi Magnolia State Map

Postby VicFontaine on Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:53 pm

natty dread wrote:You could place a small impassable in the corner so that the cornering territories won't touch. This way you wouldn't have to change the real-world borders, and you'd eliminate any problems with clarity.


Actually, we're giving serious consideration to making all regional borders impassables and indicating the impassibility with forests/trees (logging and forestry is a big deal here anyway). It would not change the bonuses too much as I have them now, and regions would be accessed via ALL cities. There are only three regional borders affected by this; the other regions are already divided by the Interstates/Freeways (which are impassable).

So, to attack from one region to another, you'd have to go through the cities as they are adjacent to one another on the infrastructure of highway or interstate/"freeway" (for the West-Coasters out there).

Either way, we've corrected some of the four-corner "mistakes" that would be unaffected by the impassable change.

The next map update may not be posted for another couple weeks. Vacation and all.

But maybe we'll get it done sooner.

What's required now to get this to the Draft stage?
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Re: Mississippi Magnolia State Map

Postby isaiah40 on Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:27 pm

Just to let you know now instead of later when you have a lot of work into this, This map is larger than the current allowable sizes. You can find the map sizes here under General Rules. If you want to apply for this map as a supersized one, then you will need to apply here. Please read through the information contained in the links. If you have any questions please free to pm any of the CA's.
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Re: Mississippi Magnolia State Map

Postby woopintroysbutt on Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:25 pm

Nice Map Vic. I have lived in the South most of my life and it's nice to see a map that has the "Southern" flavor.

My eyesight is not particularly great, but I have a real hard time reading a few of the names. One that is difficult, because of color, is under the Regional Bonuses. The Yellow used for Gulf Coast +2 is very hard to read.

The other ones I have problem with are the one below Hattiesburg and the one above Starkville (Miss State). Both of them have a blueish tint and I really can't read them very well.
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Re: Mississippi Magnolia State Map

Postby VicFontaine on Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:20 pm

woopintroysbutt wrote:Nice Map Vic. I have lived in the South most of my life and it's nice to see a map that has the "Southern" flavor.

My eyesight is not particularly great, but I have a real hard time reading a few of the names. One that is difficult, because of color, is under the Regional Bonuses. The Yellow used for Gulf Coast +2 is very hard to read.

The other ones I have problem with are the one below Hattiesburg and the one above Starkville (Miss State). Both of them have a blueish tint and I really can't read them very well.


Thanks, bud! We're looking into it. Map Maker on vacation for about 10 days. May be a delayed response.
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Re: Mississippi Magnolia State Map

Postby Gillipig on Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:02 pm

First time I'm looking at this map.
Let me start with the positive things I've got to say :).
I like how the symbols look. I'm not sure what their function is since it's not very clear from the legend. But nonetheless they look very well done! You have managed to make the bonus colours look good as well and I like the theme.
Now the bad stuff :).
The lakes, the river and the ocean looks very bad! Especially around the edges. You also need to find something else than just whiteness to surround the playable area with. The white stuff doesn't cut it. You can do a lot of things that will look fine. The gameplay and bonuses aren't clear because the legend is very hard to look at. That's all I can think off for now.
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Re: Mississippi Magnolia State Map

Postby VicFontaine on Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:53 pm

Gillipig wrote:First time I'm looking at this map.
Let me start with the positive things I've got to say :).
I like how the symbols look.


Thank you! We're working very hard. The army marker positions WILL CHANGE graphics and, slightly, positions.

Gillipig wrote:I'm not sure what their function is since it's not very clear from the legend.


Well, the Legend does need some improvement, but the font, we hope, will stay the same. It's a more historic font and, while we can probably do better, this is the best we've found. The map is actually very easy to understand. Just like, say, Stalingrad map, you look at it and go, "WTF!?" But, after you really look at it, and after you play it a few times, you really start to go, "Oh...that makes perfect sense. This is great." Again, as I've said before, we're not going for simplistic, Luxembourg gameplay, but something with more depth and complexity that can make you think you're well in the lead and then...POW...you get nailed from a position that slipped your mind.

But thank you, again, for the kind words. And again, we're working to clear it up more and more.

Gillipig wrote:But nonetheless they look very well done! You have managed to make the bonus colours look good as well and I like the theme.


If you like the "theme," wait until you see the theme fully revealed by the background images in the border states. It'll be fantastic, educational, and if anyone knows anything about Mississippi history and US history, it will just "make sense" and "feel" terrific. Thank you for your kind words.

Gillipig wrote:The lakes, the river and the ocean looks very bad! Especially around the edges.


Not so much. The Gulf will change. We think the Mississippi River looks great as is. We'll discuss other possibilities, but we like the way it looks. Some will like it. Some will not. But since you're the first person to comment about the River looking "very bad," we're going to assume the vast majority like the way it looks and stick with it (since we also like it 8-) ).

The Gulf does need some slight tweaking. The main thing that causes eye-pain, I think, is the color of the boats against the backdrop of the Gulf. Either the boats and the Gulf should change, or just one or the other (70-30 leaning towards the boats, though).

Gillipig wrote:You also need to find something else than just whiteness to surround the playable area with. The white stuff doesn't cut it. You can do a lot of things that will look fine. The gameplay and bonuses aren't clear because the legend is very hard to look at. That's all I can think off for now.


There will be ghosted images that create the "theme" of the map inserted into the off-white border states. However, this has nothing to do with gameplay, so we'll deal with that another time. All to say: definitely.
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Re: Mississippi Magnolia State Map

Postby Seamus Corrigan on Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:41 pm

I'd like to see this map move forward. The primary criticism I would have to offer is that the map is not featuring the South's number one export:

John Boy and Billy
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Re: Mississippi Magnolia State Map

Postby VicFontaine on Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:00 pm

Seamus Corrigan wrote:I'd like to see this map move forward. The primary criticism I would have to offer is that the map is not featuring the South's number one export:

John Boy and Billy


LOL! "Can I give a shout out, John Boy!?"
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Re: Mississippi Magnolia State Map

Postby isaiah40 on Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:18 am

I've looked over this a few times now to figure out the best way to rearrange things so you won't need to go so big. Right now you can crop the height down from the 1024 to 1000. So if you can do that and update your supersize application with what sizes you are looking - both small and large- then I will take another look and go from there.

On a side note, I don't think you can use that Elvis image, as it looks like it is either Trademarked, Registered Trademark, or Copy-written.
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Re: Mississippi Magnolia State Map

Postby thenobodies80 on Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:47 am

isaiah40 wrote:On a side note, I don't think you can use that Elvis image, as it looks like it is either Trademarked, Registered Trademark, or Copy-written.


what isaiah said. --> http://www.elvis.com/news/detail.aspx?id=5255

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Re: Mississippi Magnolia State Map

Postby VicFontaine on Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:45 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:
isaiah40 wrote:On a side note, I don't think you can use that Elvis image, as it looks like it is either Trademarked, Registered Trademark, or Copy-written.


what isaiah said. --> http://www.elvis.com/news/detail.aspx?id=5255


We'll find another one.
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Re: Mississippi Magnolia State Map

Postby VicFontaine on Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:17 pm

Quick update: Map Manipulator and Board Designer is on a longer vacation than I thought. He'll return around April 7th from extended vacation.

Sorry about this; I was thinking he was only gone for about 10 days. Expect a few more updates and our response to the size limitations by the 2nd week of April.

Thank you for your patience, folks.
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Re: Mississippi Magnolia State Map

Postby Gillipig on Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:57 am

VicFontaine wrote:Quick update: Map Manipulator and Board Designer is on a longer vacation than I thought. He'll return around April 7th from extended vacation.

Sorry about this; I was thinking he was only gone for about 10 days. Expect a few more updates and our response to the size limitations by the 2nd week of April.

Thank you for your patience, folks.

Well this map is still in the melting pot so there's no time table forced on you other than what you put up for yourself.
Hope you can get back to this map because it looks interesting.
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Re: Mississippi Magnolia State Map

Postby VicFontaine on Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:19 am

Gillipig wrote:
VicFontaine wrote:Quick update: Map Manipulator and Board Designer is on a longer vacation than I thought. He'll return around April 7th from extended vacation.

Sorry about this; I was thinking he was only gone for about 10 days. Expect a few more updates and our response to the size limitations by the 2nd week of April.

Thank you for your patience, folks.

Well this map is still in the melting pot so there's no time table forced on you other than what you put up for yourself.
Hope you can get back to this map because it looks interesting.


Thanks. He's about 7,000 miles away so we really won't make fast progress like we were until he's back home. However, we are still tweaking it here and there about once every couple weeks.

We are committed to moving it forward.
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