[Abandoned] Escape [19/5] Pages 1/9

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Re: Escape [26/8] V3 P1

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:50 pm

The security guards are all eaten, zombies or a survivor. Take your pick.

Would you like names for the survivors. In the back story say that only a certain group survived?
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Re: Escape [26/8] V3 P1

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:44 am

Version 3.
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Increased size to max. 840/800. Will reduce when all rules are finalised.
Went through each section to make sure doors, weapons work.
Finished of furniture in all rooms.
Changed some bonuses. Removed others.
Added zombie.

All conditional rooms should now start neutral but the idea of trapping an opponent in one or even a team mate should make it more interesting for the larger games.
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Re: Escape [28/8] V3 P1/2

Postby thehippo8 on Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:49 am

Lol ... what if everyone gets trapped?
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Re: Escape [28/8] V3 P1/2

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:58 am

thehippo8 wrote:Lol ... what if everyone gets trapped?

:lol:
Someone has to trap them so not everyone can be. But if 7 are trapped, one player goes around picking them off one at a time.
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Re: Escape [28/8] V3 P1/2

Postby thehippo8 on Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:35 am

koontz1973 wrote:
thehippo8 wrote:Lol ... what if everyone gets trapped?

:lol:
Someone has to trap them so not everyone can be. But if 7 are trapped, one player goes around picking them off one at a time.

Ya ... but what if you get a super unlucky drop!
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Re: Escape [28/8] V3 P1/2

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:49 am

You cannot drop on the cards or behind the doors. Cards are neutral starts and behind the doors are the guns etc which are also neutral starts.
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Re: Escape [28/8] V3 P1/2

Postby tkr4lf on Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:11 am

I like it. I would definitely play this.

Did you get rid of the bullets doubling any gun bonuses? I thought that was pretty cool. I suppose a more realistic way would be to add more bullets to the map and make it to where you have to hold 1 gun and 1 bullets to have a bonus, like a +2 or so. But that may make it harder to acquire a bonus. Just some thoughts.
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Re: Escape [28/8] V3 P1/2

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:44 am

tkr, not got rid of it but just going through a redraw of the legend to get all of the rules in place. You are right about the bullets and guns and this can be done (will be done). Will do it as a expanding bonus as well, more bullets, more bonus.
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Re: Escape [28/8] V3 P1/2

Postby deantursx on Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:17 am

This looks awesome Koontz. You're quickly becoming my favorite mapmaker...(So pumped for Labyrinth too!)
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Re: Escape [28/8] V3 P1/2

Postby tkr4lf on Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:40 pm

koontz1973 wrote:tkr, not got rid of it but just going through a redraw of the legend to get all of the rules in place. You are right about the bullets and guns and this can be done (will be done). Will do it as a expanding bonus as well, more bullets, more bonus.

Right on.

Regarding the bonuses, an idea I have is to reduce the number of guns you have on there currently. Maybe only have one type of gun, and only have like 3-5 of them (or some small number), but have lots of bullets around (like twice as many as you have guns). This would make it more of a survival scenario where it's a rush to get a weapon, since without a weapon, you're pretty defenseless against zombies. Plus, it would make those fights over the guns pretty intense knowing that without one, you can't have a bonus, well, other than terit count bonuses/region bonuses, etc. I don't know, that probably wouldn't make the map so balanced, it just sounds like fun.

No matter what you decide to do with the bonuses, I'm looking forward to this one. Great idea for a creative use of the conditional borders!





On the note of conditional borders, perhaps somebody could take up that Bank Robbery map that was on here a long time ago. That would probably work well with conditional borders.
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Re: Escape [28/8] V3 P1/2

Postby koontz1973 on Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:20 am

deantursx wrote:This looks awesome Koontz. You're quickly becoming my favorite mapmaker...(So pumped for Labyrinth too!)

Thanks dean.
tkr4lf wrote:Right on.

Regarding the bonuses, an idea I have is to reduce the number of guns you have on there currently. Maybe only have one type of gun, and only have like 3-5 of them (or some small number), but have lots of bullets around (like twice as many as you have guns). This would make it more of a survival scenario where it's a rush to get a weapon, since without a weapon, you're pretty defenseless against zombies. Plus, it would make those fights over the guns pretty intense knowing that without one, you can't have a bonus, well, other than terit count bonuses/region bonuses, etc. I don't know, that probably wouldn't make the map so balanced, it just sounds like fun.

No matter what you decide to do with the bonuses, I'm looking forward to this one. Great idea for a creative use of the conditional borders!

About the guns, I think I have the right amount of them now. As for having only one type, that might happen depending on how complex this map gets in the end. Need to add more bullets but do not want to saturate the map with them.

Bonuses are now in place. I know they might seem funny, but they need to be adjusted later in GP section. Will explain that to the GP mods when in that part of the foundry.
Added winning condition.
added losing condition.
Added text on cards (double door).
Decays for rooms added.
Lowered decay for hallways to 2.
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Re: Escape [1/9] V4 P1/2

Postby sannemanrobinson on Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:43 am

What is the space between Test Area 1 and Lab 2? If it is not a territory then the doors can be more close together.

The legend mentions closets connect via secret passage but I don't see them on the map. Can you make a symbol for them to make them more recognizable?
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Re: Escape [1/9] V4 P1/2

Postby tkr4lf on Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:15 am

So for your new bonuses, I'm kind of confused.

The way it's listed, it seems like most of the bonuses depend on holding either the Administrator's Office, the Head of Security Office or the Head Scientist's Office.

Is it like this:
Hold Administrator's Office and:
-2 managers +2
-3 secretaries +3
-etc.

As in, for all of the bonuses listed under "Hold Administrator's Office and", you have to hold the administrator's office to activate that bonus, or does the "Hold Administrator's Office only apply to the first one listed, the 2 managers for +2?

It's not quite clear on which way it is. I mean, it looks like it is that way, that you must hold the administrator's/head of security's/head scientist's office to activate any of those bonuses, but like I said, not entirely clear about it.

Perhaps there is a better way to organize that or state it so that it's perfectly clear that that is what you mean. Or if you don't mean that, then some way to make that clear as well.


Overall though, I like what you've done with this update. The losing condition is a nice touch. I like the gun bonuses. You say that gun bonuses expand with each bullets icon you hold, but don't say how much it expands by. Does it double for each additional bullets you hold, or go up by 1, or something else? Might be good to explain that in the legend.

Everything else looks good for now. I like the furniture in each room, that's a cool touch. You may want to bring back the small bit of info in the legend explaining that Lab 2 connects directly to Test Area 1 through the double doors, as I can see how it could be confusing.

Keep it up, koontz. I'm ready to play this one already!
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Re: Escape [1/9] V4 P1/2

Postby isaiah40 on Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:28 am

sannemanrobinson wrote:What is the space between Test Area 1 and Lab 2? If it is not a territory then the doors can be more close together.

The legend mentions closets connect via secret passage but I don't see them on the map. Can you make a symbol for them to make them more recognizable?

Forget about the secret passage symbol, it reads that the closets connect, I believe that is self explanatory. Besides they are SECRET passages, if you saw them they wouldn't be secret now would they?? :lol:
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Re: Escape [1/9] V4 P1/2

Postby koontz1973 on Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:03 am

tkr, in no way are the bonuses set in stone yet, but let me try to explain what I want and see if you or anyone else can come up with a way of doing it.

I want 3 types of bonuses.
Type 1. Icon bonuses like the guns and bullets.
Type 2. Normal continent bonuses (Hold 3 admin +2)
Type 3. Activation bonuses. These are the ones you picked up on. Hold the Administrators office/head of security office/head scientist office to activate a bonus. All 3 will have bonuses aimed at them. Like the administrators office and 3 secretaries.

So what I need to do is find a way to balance these bonuses for the 3 distinct areas (imagine 3 different maps) and then combine them into one map and balance them all again.

Type 1 bonuses are the easiest ones to do and are pretty good IMO at the moment but I do need to change the wording in the expanding part. Right now it is unclear. What I need it to say is this.
Gun(pistol) + bullet = bonus.+1
2 guns the same(pistols) + bullet = same bonus.+1
1 gun + 2 bullets = double previous bonus.+2
2 different guns (pistol and shotgun) + one bullet = both bonuses.+3
2 different guns + two bullets = double both bonuses.+6
With a max of a double bonus. I hope this will lead players to ignore bullets and allow another player to grab them, thus allowing players to have to fight all over the board for things they do no need.

Type 2 bonuses have been started but need to add a lot more. These will be very low bonuses (+1 or 2).
Type 3 will be the higher bonuses (+3/4 or 5) depending on how far apart they are.

isaiah40 wrote:
sannemanrobinson wrote:What is the space between Test Area 1 and Lab 2? If it is not a territory then the doors can be more close together.

The legend mentions closets connect via secret passage but I don't see them on the map. Can you make a symbol for them to make them more recognizable?

Forget about the secret passage symbol, it reads that the closets connect, I believe that is self explanatory. Besides they are SECRET passages, if you saw them they wouldn't be secret now would they?? :lol:

Icon no, but I will put a small black square (outline only) into each closet. Just noticed there is no furniture in closet 2 so will add as well.
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Re: Escape [1/9] V4 P1/2

Postby tkr4lf on Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:10 am

Hmmm, I've got to run and take care of some stuff here pretty soon, but I'll be giving this some thought and I'll post back here later if I can think of a good way to word some of that.
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Re: Escape [1/9] V4 P1/2

Postby koontz1973 on Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:57 pm

Thanks, been thinking about it and this might work. One thing to think about though is I want one more icon. Not a gun but something that would help with an outbreak like this and something you might find in this environment.
Here is a list of things that might work...
    chainsaw
    axe
    potted plant (used as an anti viral)
    snipers rifle (not sure if this would work but if this is chosen with the conditional borders it might allow any territ have a border with another if held. Say you are in a hallway, holding the snipers rifle would allow you to bombard any other hallway territ).
    knife
    sword
    Molotov cocktail
    survivor
Added the secret passage.
finished of the furniture
new look legend
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Re: Escape [1/9] V5 P1/2

Postby tkr4lf on Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:57 pm

Well, honestly I don't think I can add anything useful as far as how to word or organize the legend information. You got it all pretty good with this last update.

Having the Admin office/Security office/Scientist office bonuses organized into boxes goes a long way toward clearing up the confusion there. It makes it pretty obvious how the bonuses work. Only thing I see that could maybe use some clarification is the Head of security office with Security +2. I'm pretty sure you're talking about Security 1 and Security 2 terits, but perhaps spelling that out would be better? I'm not sure on that, maybe most people would understand, but there are bound to be a few people out there who wouldn't understand it right off the bat. That one is pretty subjective, so you can take it or leave it, no biggie.

One question about those bonuses. Are they cumulative? If you hold the Head Scientist office and, say, the Test subjects holding cell for a +2, and then take the Test area 2 for a +3, do you end up getting +5, or does it only give you whatever the highest one you hold?

I like the way the gun/bullet bonus info is organized now. It's fairly obvious how it works now.

You've got a few minor typos in the legend, not important right now, but figured I'd point them out so you can fix them. Quaters should be quarters (unless you're from Boston), Conferance should be Conference, and I think that is it. That's all I noticed.



As for another weapon/useful item...I quite like the sniper rifle idea and having it able to bombard, etc. However, I also am not sure that it work out. Assuming it's placed in a room (or where ever, that part isn't that important), how would you know which terits it allows you to bombard from? Would it be any terit you hold that has sight of 2 or more touching terits? Or what? I mean, I love the idea, but I feel like it would probably be pretty hard to spell out how it works, what it can do, and actually have that in place on the map. Plus, it might just make it too easy.

I don't know. If you can figure out a way to successfully implement it and explain it in the legend, then I say go for it. It would add a lot to the map, and goes with the theme wonderfully. One issue may be with xml. I don't know all that much about it, but I figure it might be hard to make a territory only able to attack one territory away unless you hold a certain other territory, in which case that first territory can now bombard so many territories away. But you would know better than me if that is possible within the current xml.

If you can't get that to work, then really any of the others would probably work. In keeping with the theme of a laboratory, probably either an axe (fire axes), potted plant or Molotov Cocktail (there are bound to be all sorts of chemicals around that could be used to make one of those, assuming the absence of alcohol) would be the best fit, most realistic. I can't imagine a sword just laying around a laboratory. Well, then again, rocket launchers aren't common sights either, I suppose, so I guess really any of them would work. :lol:

But it would be cool to have something that you could do something cool with, like you're thinking about doing with the sniper rifle. Not just another weapon for another bonus, you've got plenty of bonuses, but something that allows you to do something really cool and interesting not possible otherwise. Like if you have the Molotov Cocktail, you could use it in the hallways to clear out the infected, thus eliminating the decay each round, or something else like that. That probably isn't possible with the xml, but you get my drift.

I like where this is headed. Keep it up!
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Re: Escape [1/9] V4 P1/2

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:08 am

sannemanrobinson wrote:What is the space between Test Area 1 and Lab 2? If it is not a territory then the doors can be more close together.

Sorry, missed this last time around. The space was going to be a territ (decontamination chamber) but found it too small for it when scaled down for the small. So yes it did start out as a territ.

The reason why I left it as it is is because of the decom, if I could not have it, wanted to leave it in anyway for story reasons. The reason why the doors will not go closer together is that I do not need at a later stage, players complaining that they missed the second door (mainly colour blind people). While the door colours will be made friendly for them, having two close together, might make them blend in more.
tkr4lf wrote:Well, honestly I don't think I can add anything useful as far as how to word or organize the legend information. You got it all pretty good with this last update.

Thanks.

Having the Admin office/Security office/Scientist office bonuses organized into boxes goes a long way toward clearing up the confusion there. It makes it pretty obvious how the bonuses work. Only thing I see that could maybe use some clarification is the Head of security office with Security +2. I'm pretty sure you're talking about Security 1 and Security 2 terits, but perhaps spelling that out would be better? I'm not sure on that, maybe most people would understand, but there are bound to be a few people out there who wouldn't understand it right off the bat. That one is pretty subjective, so you can take it or leave it, no biggie.

Will get it clarified.

One question about those bonuses. Are they cumulative? If you hold the Head Scientist office and, say, the Test subjects holding cell for a +2, and then take the Test area 2 for a +3, do you end up getting +5, or does it only give you whatever the highest one you hold?

You get all bonuses stated. These are the big ones, so those three areas need to be open while defensible.

I like the way the gun/bullet bonus info is organized now. It's fairly obvious how it works now.

Thanks.
You've got a few minor typos in the legend, not important right now, but figured I'd point them out so you can fix them. Quaters should be quarters (unless you're from Boston), Conferance should be Conference, and I think that is it. That's all I noticed.

Spelling has never been my strong suit. Will fix those.

As for another weapon/useful item...I quite like the sniper rifle idea and having it able to bombard, etc. However, I also am not sure that it work out. Assuming it's placed in a room (or where ever, that part isn't that important), how would you know which terits it allows you to bombard from? Would it be any terit you hold that has sight of 2 or more touching terits? Or what? I mean, I love the idea, but I feel like it would probably be pretty hard to spell out how it works, what it can do, and actually have that in place on the map. Plus, it might just make it too easy.

I don't know. If you can figure out a way to successfully implement it and explain it in the legend, then I say go for it. It would add a lot to the map, and goes with the theme wonderfully. One issue may be with xml. I don't know all that much about it, but I figure it might be hard to make a territory only able to attack one territory away unless you hold a certain other territory, in which case that first territory can now bombard so many territories away. But you would know better than me if that is possible within the current xml.

If you can't get that to work, then really any of the others would probably work. In keeping with the theme of a laboratory, probably either an axe (fire axes), potted plant or Molotov Cocktail (there are bound to be all sorts of chemicals around that could be used to make one of those, assuming the absence of alcohol) would be the best fit, most realistic. I can't imagine a sword just laying around a laboratory. Well, then again, rocket launchers aren't common sights either, I suppose, so I guess really any of them would work. :lol:

But it would be cool to have something that you could do something cool with, like you're thinking about doing with the sniper rifle. Not just another weapon for another bonus, you've got plenty of bonuses, but something that allows you to do something really cool and interesting not possible otherwise. Like if you have the Molotov Cocktail, you could use it in the hallways to clear out the infected, thus eliminating the decay each round, or something else like that. That probably isn't possible with the xml, but you get my drift.

I like where this is headed. Keep it up!

Went with the molotov, it has a bombard range of three.

As for the snipers rifle..... dropped it, for some reason, putting the words on for it to shoot round corners/ through walls made no sense.

But I am adding another icon. ;) Will post later today the new map.
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Re: Escape [1/9] V5 P1/2

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:23 am

Sorted spelling.
Added new weapons.
Finished of bonuses (These will need tidying up though).
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Re: Escape [2/9] V6 P1/3

Postby tkr4lf on Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:51 am

Cool, I like it.

Legend looks good, all nicely organized and readable.

Can the molotov cocktail bombard through doors? Like in Hallway 13, can it bombard Hallway 19 and Hallway 18, since they're 2-3 terits away? Would it depend on if you hold the green key card? If it can't go through doors at all, then that should probably be explained as well in the legend, to avoid confusion.

This is just my opinion, but it seems like +1 for every 2 terits might be a bit much. There are already bonuses galore on the map, seems like way too many troops people may be getting. 73 starting terits divided by 8 gives each player 6 terits, so 3 to start off with, which is good. But say it's a 4 player game, that's 15 terits, so 7 troops to start out with. Now I know that starting positions, etc. will all be relatively separated, but it seems like with a random distribution of territories, the first player to go would have ample opportunity to knock at least one opponent down by enough terits to take away at least 1 or 2 troops. May not be a huge deal, considering all the bonuses available, but just something to think about. Would probably be more important in team play than in standard play.


Everything else looks great. If it was up to me, you'd have your draft stamp and move on to the workshop!
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Re: Escape [2/9] V6 P1/3

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:17 am

Will word Molotov to say it can bomb through doors and also need the key card to do it as you pointed out. Need more room for it so will swap knife and molotov around.

As for the +1 for every two territs, here is the breakdown for each game type. Starting positions in first post in the game play notes spoiler.
31 starting territs.
All will be programmed starting positions with a max of 15 given out. This means that...
2 player games - 15 territs each 7 starting troops
3 player games - 10 territs each 5 ST
4 player games - 7 territs each
5 player games - 6 territs each
6 player games - 5 territs each
7 player games - 4 territs each
8 player games - 3 territs each
So, even in a two player game, you get to start with 7 deployable troops (seems high) but when you consider he loses 15 troops to the decays, he only gains half of what he loses. So deploy will become a major factor. I have also indicated that a minimum of 5 will be given but need to put this on the map itself (next draft).
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Re: Escape [2/9] V6 P1/3

Postby tkr4lf on Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:29 am

koontz1973 wrote:As for the +1 for every two territs, here is the breakdown for each game type. Starting positions in first post in the game play notes spoiler.
31 starting territs.
All will be programmed starting positions with a max of 15 given out. This means that...
2 player games - 15 territs each 7 starting troops
3 player games - 10 territs each 5 ST
4 player games - 7 territs each
5 player games - 6 territs each
6 player games - 5 territs each
7 player games - 4 territs each
8 player games - 3 territs each
So, even in a two player game, you get to start with 7 deployable troops (seems high) but when you consider he loses 15 troops to the decays, he only gains half of what he loses. So deploy will become a major factor. I have also indicated that a minimum of 5 will be given but need to put this on the map itself (next draft).

Ah, ok. I was going off of the information that says 73 randomly distributed terits. Good to know that there will be less terits each player starts off with. Plus, with the decay that you pointed out, that doesn't seem to high now.

A minimum of 5 seems good. I didn't take into consideration the decay that every terit receives.

Right on. It looks like I'm out of input to give for this one, at least until you move on to other things.

Looking forward to eventually playing this one.
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Re: Escape [2/9] V6 P1/3

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:03 pm

This should clear any issues about Molotov and bonuses up. As well as clearing up the territ bonus.
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Re: Escape [2/9] V6 P1/3

Postby tkr4lf on Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:58 pm

Looks good.


Wow, looking at those Molotovs, those are going to be quite powerful. That's neither a good or bad thing, just an observation.

For instance, by holding Hallway 3 and Hallway 5, you can bombard every terit in the Admin/Security wing of the map, assuming you have the proper key cards as well. Good thing there is a decay on them. ;)
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