[Abandoned] Field of Gettysburg v04p4nov22

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Field of Gettysburg v02p3sep17

Postby pamoa on Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:53 am

v02 small new features : wording, title, attack routes (Long Lane, Wheatfield), oval shaping (tribute to original map)
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Re: Field of Gettysburg v02p3sep17

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:40 am

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Good luck pamoa and have fun.

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Re: Field of Gettysburg [D] v02p3sep17

Postby pamoa on Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:28 am

oh thanks
I didn't saw you edited your post
and now some gameplay comment?

question
should I put a "East Cemetery Hill" battlefield between "Rodes/Early at Gettysburg" and "Howard at Cemetery Hill"
Last edited by pamoa on Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Field of Gettysburg [D] v02p3sep17

Postby koontz1973 on Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:46 am

pamoa wrote:oh thanks
I didn't you edited your post
and now some gameplay comment?

question
should I put a "East Cemetery Hill" battlefield between "Rodes/Early at Gettysburg" and "Howard at Cemetery Hill"

Hate double posts. As for the second question, what would it do to the map in your opinion?
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Re: Field of Gettysburg [D] v02p3sep17

Postby pamoa on Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:01 am

pamoa wrote:should I put a "East Cemetery Hill" battlefield between "Rodes/Early at Gettysburg" and "Howard at Cemetery Hill"
koontz1973 wrote:...what would it do to the map in your opinion?
it is about the link between the two enemy sides

now you have three "direct" attack route (Hood, East cavalry and Howard at Cemetery Hill)
and four Battlefield which require to hold a Commander to go through
even if a player can conquer/open it during his round and no opponent can prevent him doing it
it is an expensive attack
so the three direct route gives a more open map

but on the other hand historically there was also a big fight East of Cemetery Hill
which I would like to put on the map

I'm afraid of locking the gameplay too much
I'm always keen to be more accurate historically
but as I'm writing this explanation I feel more confident to do so
I'll do it
well thanks for asking :lol:
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Re: Field of Gettysburg [D] v02p3sep17

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:35 am

Accuracy to history is never going to win over game play. And who is to say what went on that day? Just because a book or wiki says something, only the ones there can truly say. I like the idea of opening it up more so as you say, it does not stifle GP.

Another thing to consider is to put more attack routes on. Try this for an idea.
Have two types of attack lines with a brief explanation, you seem to have room. A solid line for what went on that day for historical accuracy. A dotted line for the ones can could of happened but didn't. Sort of like, can the side that lost win if only they had attacked in this fashion or can the side that won, win faster if only they had.... This will allow you to have some things on that are not accurate to the battle.
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Re: Field of Gettysburg [D] v02p3sep17

Postby pamoa on Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:16 am

koontz1973 wrote:Accuracy to history is never going to win over game play. And who is to say what went on that day? Just because a book or wiki says something, only the ones there can truly say. I like the idea of opening it up more so as you say, it does not stifle GP.
Another thing to consider is to put more attack routes on. Try this for an idea.
Have two types of attack lines with a brief explanation, you seem to have room. A solid line for what went on that day for historical accuracy. A dotted line for the ones can could of happened but didn't. Sort of like, can the side that lost win if only they had attacked in this fashion or can the side that won, win faster if only they had.... This will allow you to have some things on that are not accurate to the battle.
good idea
in fact I made an accuracy error :oops:
as there really was a fight East of Cemetery Hill which I'll put on the map
but it never happen at Long Lane where troops draw back and fail to support the East Cemetery Hill attack
this one will be put as an "what if" direct route
so I keep the map more open

It would be nice to have more than one commentator to help me to develop this map
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Re: Field of Gettysburg [D] v02p3sep17

Postby Oneyed on Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:52 pm

the generals would be sorted anyway, I think. in Confederate army the Corps Commanders were Lieutenant Generals - generals of all corps. then where Major Generals - generals for divisions.
in Union both (commanders of corps, commanders of divisions) had the same rank Major General, but there were still difference between corps commanders and division commanders.

do you think about cavalry? add them any importance maybe?
there were also more Union units/soldiers in battle but you have more confederate units...

will look at the map more later.

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Field of Gettysburg [D] v03p3sep29

Postby pamoa on Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:37 am

v03 small new features : - gameplay - cavalry bonus, East Cemetery Hill Battlefield (replacing Long Lane) - graphics - attack route, legend, decor
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Oneyed wrote:the generals would be sorted anyway, I think. in Confederate army the Corps Commanders were Lieutenant Generals - generals of all corps. then where Major Generals - generals for divisions.
in Union both (commanders of corps, commanders of divisions) had the same rank Major General, but there were still difference between corps commanders and division commanders.
your right for the ranking
but I had to simplify for gameplay purpose
I used stars to differentiate their level of command
althought some are over/underrated
Oneyed wrote:do you think about cavalry? add them any importance maybe?
made them a +1 bonus if both hold
Oneyed wrote:there were also more Union units/soldiers in battle but you have more confederate units...
I know but I choose to made the gameplay even
as it ended in a relative draw around 23,000 casualties on each side
I could have fusion McLaw/Hood divisions
but the fight around Peach Orchard would have been to simplified
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Re: Field of Gettysburg [D] v03p3sep29

Postby Oneyed on Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:39 am

pamoa wrote:your right for the ranking
but I had to simplify for gameplay purpose
I used stars to differentiate their level of command


I did not mean to differentiate them only. but add them another role, maybe for Corps commanders add another bonus.
pamoa wrote:made them a +1 bonus if both hold


try to think about any strategic role for them more as just simple bonus. it was common that who won cavalry battle he used cavalry for any attack from behind or so... lets think about this map more as strategis as bonuses, I think.
pamoa wrote:I know but I choose to made the gameplay even
as it ended in a relative draw around 23,000 casualties on each side


this was just end of battle. but your map shows 3 days of battle.
pamoa wrote:I could have fusion McLaw/Hood divisions
but the fight around Peach Orchard would have been to simplified


... and you made it right when you did not unite them :)

I am off now fro longer time, when I will come home I will post any draw.

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Re: Field of Gettysburg [D] v03p3sep29

Postby pamoa on Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:11 am

back from holiday

pamoa wrote:your right for the ranking
but I had to simplify for gameplay purpose
I used stars to differentiate their level of command
Oneyed wrote:I did not mean to differentiate them only
but add them another role
maybe for Corps commanders add another bonus
as I didn't used that level of command for the Union it would unbalance the gameplay

pamoa wrote:made them a +1 bonus if both hold
Oneyed wrote:try to think about any strategic role for them more as just simple bonus
it was common that who won cavalry battle he used cavalry for any attack from behind or so...
lets think about this map more as strategis as bonuses, I think
they already are positioned as historically it was as a bypass
but it can be empowered by giving an attack range of 2 or even 3


Oneyed wrote:there were also more Union units/soldiers in battle but you have more confederate units...
pamoa wrote:I know but I choose to made the gameplay even
as it ended in a relative draw around 23,000 casualties on each side
I could have fusion McLaw/Hood divisions
but the fight around Peach Orchard would have been to simplified
Oneyed wrote:this was just end of battle. but your map shows 3 days of battle.
... and you made it right when you did not unite them
oh btw
I don't have more confederate units but more officers
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Re: Field of Gettysburg [D] v03p3sep17

Postby ManBungalow on Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:38 pm

Did all the leaders of the American Civil War have such awesome beards?
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Re: Field of Gettysburg [D] v03p3sep17

Postby nolefan5311 on Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:48 pm

ManBungalow wrote:Did all the leaders of the American Civil War have such awesome beards?


Not just beards...

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Re: Field of Gettysburg [D] v03p3sep17

Postby pamoa on Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:42 pm

not much of an enthusiasm I'm getting here
or development input
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Re: Field of Gettysburg [D] v03p3sep17

Postby nolefan5311 on Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:45 pm

I've been busy with a couple other things Pamoa. I promise to look at this one in the next few days and provide some gameplay feedback.
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Re: Field of Gettysburg [D] v03p3sep17

Postby nolefan5311 on Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:59 pm

First things first, and I know I haven't posted in this thread much, but this is a very nice looking map.

Ok, first, I think you need to remove "The Gettysburg Campaign" from it's current spot, make it stand out on it's own. It's supposed to be an introduction to the map, but right now it sort of gets muddled in with all of the gameplay instructions.

I don't like that Lee can only be attacked by 3 regions (Ewell, Hill, and Longstreet) while Meade can be attacked by 7 regions. Even more unbalanced is that those 3 regions are then protected on both sides. It seems Meade is significantly more vulnerable to the rest of the map, and thus his bonus easier to break.

I think the legend needs quite a bit more sorting as well. For instance, break each of the Map Legend components out separately and indicate what they can do in their own little box, as opposed to how it currently is.

What are the dimensions of the map? I think it could stand to be enlarged a little bit so that things aren't so congested and that your legend markers (Troops, Battlefield, Cavalry, etc) can be a little easier to distinguish.

I'll admit I wanted to get something posted tonight because I haven't posted anything in a while, so that's a start. I will try to look closer at things soon, see if things make more sense when I'm not tired :D.
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Re: Field of Gettysburg [D] v03p3sep17

Postby trinicardinal on Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:13 am

nolefan5311 wrote:First things first, and I know I haven't posted in this thread much, but this is a very nice looking map.

Ok, first, I think you need to remove "The Gettysburg Campaign" from it's current spot, make it stand out on it's own. It's supposed to be an introduction to the map, but right now it sort of gets muddled in with all of the gameplay instructions.

I don't like that Lee can only be attacked by 3 regions (Ewell, Hill, and Longstreet) while Meade can be attacked by 7 regions. Even more unbalanced is that those 3 regions are then protected on both sides. It seems Meade is significantly more vulnerable to the rest of the map, and thus his bonus easier to break.

I think the legend needs quite a bit more sorting as well. For instance, break each of the Map Legend components out separately and indicate what they can do in their own little box, as opposed to how it currently is.

What are the dimensions of the map? I think it could stand to be enlarged a little bit so that things aren't so congested and that your legend markers (Troops, Battlefield, Cavalry, etc) can be a little easier to distinguish.

I'll admit I wanted to get something posted tonight because I haven't posted anything in a while, so that's a start. I will try to look closer at things soon, see if things make more sense when I'm not tired :D.


An extremely nice looking map at this stage. I understand and agree with most of what nolefan is saying but I would suggest that the introduction to the map remain where it is... those who are interested in it will still read it and those who aren't will overlook it anyway and I honestly like the look of where it is
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Re: Field of Gettysburg [D] v03p3sep17

Postby pamoa on Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:16 am

nolefan5311 wrote:... this is a very nice looking map.
trinicardinal wrote:An extremely nice looking map at this stage.
thanks for encouragement
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Re: Field of Gettysburg [D] v03p3sep17

Postby pamoa on Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:42 am

thanks for your patience

nolefan5311 wrote:Ok, first, I think you need to remove "The Gettysburg Campaign" from it's current spot, make it stand out on it's own. It's supposed to be an introduction to the map, but right now it sort of gets muddled in with all of the gameplay instructions.
I think the legend needs quite a bit more sorting as well. For instance, break each of the Map Legend components out separately and indicate what they can do in their own little box, as opposed to how it currently is.
trinicardinal wrote:I understand and agree with most of what nolefan is saying but I would suggest that the introduction to the map remain where it is... those who are interested in it will still read it and those who aren't will overlook it anyway and I honestly like the look of where it is
for the moment I'll keep everything in a single box
but I keep in mind your suggestion about moving out of it the historical part
as it is not a gameplay legend


nolefan5311 wrote:What are the dimensions of the map? I think it could stand to be enlarged a little bit so that things aren't so congested and that your legend markers (Troops, Battlefield, Cavalry, etc) can be a little easier to distinguish.
as I said in first post this is the small map ( width 630 pixels - height 600 pixels )
I always work on the small map first to be sure all fits in
in this case the lower left corner was tricky to adjust


nolefan5311 wrote:I don't like that Lee can only be attacked by 3 regions (Ewell, Hill, and Longstreet) while Meade can be attacked by 7 regions. Even more unbalanced is that those 3 regions are then protected on both sides. It seems Meade is significantly more vulnerable to the rest of the map, and thus his bonus easier to break.
corps and army commanders aren't part of any bonus
they just trigger the attack through battlefields
the difference is in command structure on both side
for the Union only Meade can trigger attack thus is attackable by all is generals
instead for the Confederates you have two level of command
corps commanders can trigger attack only for generals under his command
Lee can do it for all the army
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Re: Field of Gettysburg [D] v03p3sep17

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:31 pm

pamoa, from me a couple of things. In assault conditions can you swap the army and corps commanders around. Army commander seems to be higher in rank so should come first. Secondly, do you have room to increase the text size at all. I am finding it slightly hard to read at the moment (not imposable) but with the conditional border, it might be nice to see if the text itself can become easier to read. It might be the italics.
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Re: Field of Gettysburg [D] v03p3sep17

Postby pamoa on Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:47 am

koontz1973 wrote:pamoa, from me a couple of things. In assault conditions can you swap the army and corps commanders around. Army commander seems to be higher in rank so should come first.
what if changed as below
Assault Conditions (actual)
to attack through a Battlefield
you must hold your respective
Corps or Army Commander,
i.e. to attack Rock Creek
Johnson troops must hold
Ewell (Corps) or Lee (Army)
Assault Conditions (proposed)
only Army Commander can order
an attack through a Battlefield
as Corps Com. in their sector,
i.e. to attack Rock Creek
with Johnson troops you must
hold Ewell (Corps) or Lee (Army)


koontz1973 wrote:Secondly, do you have room to increase the text size at all. I am finding it slightly hard to read at the moment (not imposable) but with the conditional border, it might be nice to see if the text itself can become easier to read. It might be the italics.
Again this is the small map
and strangely enough italic is more readable than normal font
here is an enlarged version as large map preview
Click image to enlarge.
image
de gueules à la tour d'argent ouverte, crénelée de trois pièces, sommée d'un donjon ajouré, crénelé de deux pièces
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Re: Field of Gettysburg [D] v03p3sep17

Postby koontz1973 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:29 am

Again this is the small map

I only use the small map so having to click over to the large will become annoying. As I said, it is not imposable for me to read, just differcult. Can I please ask to see if you can find a solution to see if something better can be found. O:)

Assault Conditions (actual)
to attack through a Battlefield
you must hold your respective
Corps or Army Commander,
i.e. to attack Rock Creek
Johnson troops must hold
Ewell (Corps) or Lee (Army)

I like the original but only change this.
a Battlefield
you must hold your respective
Army or Corps Commander,
As I said, Army seems to have a higher rank so it seems better suited to have them first.
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Field of Gettysburg v04p4nov22

Postby pamoa on Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:27 am

v04 small new features : Cavalry range of 2 instead of bonus, Victory condition, added Long Lane Battlefield, removed Devil's Den - Big Round Top attack route
those gameplay modifications are made to give more importance to Battlefields and Assault Condition
Click image to enlarge.
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Re: Field of Gettysburg [D] v04p4nov22

Postby Oneyed on Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:18 pm

nice progres, pamoa.
to attack Rock Creek must player holds Slocum troops and Meade or any Union general?

have Union generals also bombardment ability? because acording legend only Army or Corps commanders have this ability. you have only Corp commanders in Union army, if I am not wrong yes?

what about to do Gettysburg as battlefield too? it was the goal of battle - Gettysburg was important crossroad.

cavalry could have another ability as attack range of two. Lee sent his cavalry to atack Unionist from behind, maybe add to cavalry alike ability...

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Re: Field of Gettysburg [D] v04p4nov22

Postby pamoa on Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:54 pm

Oneyed wrote:to attack Rock Creek must player holds Slocum Troops and Meade or any Union General?
to attack Rock Creek from Slocum Troops one must hold Meade (Army Commander)

Oneyed wrote:have Union Generals also bombardment ability? because according legend only Army or Corps Commanders have this ability. you have only Corps Commanders in Union Army, if I am not wrong yes?
your right only Corps and Army Commanders can bombard each-other
mainly to retard an attack through a Battlefield as they are necessary to do so
and Corps Commander are only in Confederate Army
as in reality Confederate Corps were larger and more autonomous
than Union Corps (represented by Union Generals on this map)
which were smaller and under "straight" control of Meade


Oneyed wrote:what about to do Gettysburg as battlefield too? it was the goal of battle - Gettysburg was important crossroad.
no real fight occur IN Gettysburg
yes it was the strategic objective
but to control it each must first wipe the opposing army
at that time no army would actually fight INSIDE a town
so first day they fight north-west of it
second and third south of it


Oneyed wrote:cavalry could have another ability as attack range of two. Lee sent his cavalry to attack Unionist from behind, maybe add to cavalry alike ability...
yes Lee did so and Meade anticipated it by sending his cavalry at the same position east of the main battlefield
and giving a range of two gives that kind of back door effect
but maybe you have a smart idea here
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