[Vacation untill July 2014] Massacre à Paris

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Re: Re: Massacre à Paris [15.1.13] V11-P8 border symbols

Postby nolefan5311 on Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:58 am

Moved

Per mapmakers request. If the mapmaker wants to continue with the map, then one of the Cartography Assistants will be able to help put the thread back into the Foundry system, after an update has been made.
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Re: * Massacre à Paris [23.7.13] V12 P9

Postby cairnswk on Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:30 pm

Version 12...an update

I changed the title and top frames a fraction, to give more eye-space there, just to keep this out of the bin.

Notice that the xml person is empty, so whoever wants to do this and hasn't done xml before i.e. a newbie xml person, can have the job.
This is not a complicated map for the xml process.
Please PM me with details if you want this xml job. I will also guide the person as much as possible.

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Re: * Massacre à Paris [23.7.13] V12 P9 newbie XMLer require

Postby cairnswk on Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:30 pm

Seems nobody wants to learn xml or earn some premium :oops:
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Re: * Massacre à Paris [23.7.13] V12 P9 newbie XMLer require

Postby sempaispellcheck on Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:32 pm

cairnswk wrote:Seems nobody wants to learn xml or earn some premium :oops:

I'm in! Sorry I didn't see this before.
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Re: * Massacre à Paris [23.7.13] V12 P9 newbie XMLer require

Postby cairnswk on Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:36 pm

sempaispellcheck wrote:
cairnswk wrote:Seems nobody wants to learn xml or earn some premium :oops:

I'm in! Sorry I didn't see this before.
sempai

Thanks, i'll add your name to the map :)
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Re: * Massacre à Paris [23.7.13] V12 P9 Gameplay ?

Postby cairnswk on Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:52 pm

OK, there was lots of previous discussion some months back about gameplay and the visisbility of component and borders...etc

Can we make a move on finalising gameplay please?
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Re: * Massacre à Paris [23.7.13] V12 P9 Gameplay ?

Postby sempaispellcheck on Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:07 am

Attached is my first draft of the XML for V12.

Unfortunately, Gilligan (our resident XML expert) has informed me that there is no such thing as conditional bonuses autodeploy (EDIT), so the doubled autodeploy is not going to happen.

Also, since you haven't yet responded to my PMs (it hasn't been that long, but I'm not the world's most patient person), I'll post my notes and questions here to be sure you see them.

Notes:
Henry de Navarre should be Henri de Navarre.
The word is "Maisons," not "Masions" - it's right in the legend, but not on the map itself.
Bottom right corner - there should be a space between the comma and the "f" in "fences."
There should be an accent on the first lowercase "e" in "Entrée."
Legend at right - there should be space between "with" and "any" in "with any Huguenot." - though this will probably be deleted anyway, since it is impossible to code with current XML.
Legend should say H16 borders H26, not H18.
Dueler C35 still has an asterisk - please remove that, since it no longer means anything.

Question:
What (if any) regions do you want to start neutral (besides the buildings and the royals)? How many neutrals should they start with? Do you want any of them to be killers?

sempai
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Re: * Massacre à Paris [23.7.13] V12 P9 Gameplay ?

Postby Gilligan on Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:06 am

Well you can do conditional bonuses, just not auto deploys.
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Re: * Massacre à Paris [11.8.13] V13 P9 Gameplay ?

Postby cairnswk on Sun Aug 11, 2013 12:28 am

sempaispellcheck wrote:Attached is my first draft of the XML for V12.

Unfortunately, Gilligan (our resident XML expert) has informed me that there is no such thing as conditional bonuses autodeploy (EDIT), so the doubled autodeploy is not going to happen.

Gilligan wrote:Well you can do conditional bonuses, just not auto deploys.


OK, we'll do conditional bonus....
each dueler is still +1 autodeploy.

but the new bonus is:
Henri de Navarre with Huguenot group
or Charles IX with Catholique group
from each bonus region
doubles the bonus


Notes:
Henry de Navarre should be Henri de Navarre.
The word is "Maisons," not "Masions" - it's right in the legend, but not on the map itself.
Bottom right corner - there should be a space between the comma and the "f" in "fences."
There should be an accent on the first lowercase "e" in "Entrée."
Legend at right - there should be space between "with" and "any" in "with any Huguenot." - though this will probably be deleted anyway, since it is impossible to code with current XML.
Legend should say H16 borders H26, not H18.
Dueler C35 still has an asterisk - please remove that, since it no longer means anything.

Fixed.

Question:
What (if any) regions do you want to start neutral (besides the buildings and the royals)? How many neutrals should they start with? Do you want any of them to be killers?sempai

Neutrals are thus marked on the map - even temporarily - so please beware they may change
I hadn't planned any to be killers, nor have i heard anyone argu for that.

Version 13.
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Re: * Massacre à Paris [11.8.13] V13 P9 Gameplay ?

Postby sempaispellcheck on Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:50 pm

cairnswk wrote:the new bonus is:
Henri de Navarre with Huguenot group
or Charles IX with Catholique group
from each bonus region
doubles the bonus

Not sure I understand this.
You would only receive the bonus if you hold all Huguenots and all Catholiques in a given region, yes?
So simply holding Henri and all Huguenots in a region wouldn't give you anything if you didn't hold all the Catholiques in that region (0 doubled is still 0).
OR do you want Henri and all Huguenots in a region to give the bonus even if all Catholiques in the region aren't held?

cairnswk wrote:Neutrals are thus marked on the map - even temporarily - so please beware they may change

OK. I've coded the neutrals into the attached XML - but they can easily be changed if/when needed.

sempai
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Re: * Massacre à Paris [11.8.13] V13 P9 Gameplay ?

Postby cairnswk on Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:04 pm

sempaispellcheck wrote:
cairnswk wrote:the new bonus is:
Henri de Navarre with Huguenot group
or Charles IX with Catholique group
from each bonus region
doubles the bonus

Not sure I understand this.
You would only receive the bonus if you hold all Huguenots and all Catholiques in a given region, yes?
So simply holding Henri and all Huguenots in a region wouldn't give you anything if you didn't hold all the Catholiques in that region (0 doubled is still 0).
OR do you want Henri and all Huguenots in a region to give the bonus even if all Catholiques in the region aren't held?
sempai

Your first is incorrect, but your second is correct.
The optional word is OR in the statement.
So Henri de Navarre with the Huguenot group in any bonus region doubles the bonus...you do not have to hold the Catholiques also since the Catholiques are not aligned religiously with Henri de Navarre.
The opposite applies to Charles IX.
If you hold Henri de Navarre and Charles IX and all of a region, then the bonus quadruples.

This provides a good conditional strategy. You have to hold the guards, the buildings, or the royal personage and fort them very well to stop your opponent from gaining those extra bonuses.
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Re: * Massacre à Paris [13.8.13] V13 P9 Gameplay ?

Postby cairnswk on Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:03 am

After all the work done previously...i'm afraid this map will fail...if no-one bothers with it from here in.
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Re: * Massacre à Paris [13.8.13] V13 P9 Gameplay ?

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:15 am

cairnswk wrote:After all the work done previously...i'm afraid this map will fail...if no-one bothers with it from here in.

cairns, give me till Tuesday please. Will have a read of the thread since the last look I had and give you any notes I see.
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Re: * Massacre à Paris [13.8.13] V13 P9 Gameplay ?

Postby koontz1973 on Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:29 am

cairns, honestly, I cannot see much wrong with this - but:

Movement between duellers is pretty well explained in the legend and I like the idea of having a map with no lines on it. But the symbols are overtly complicated IMO when you attack over borders. When you need to start adding examples in the legend, it might be time to try and have a think about a different way. When you consider that you have explained how the attacks work, why the need for the symbols at all? By adding the symbols and text, on the one hand you seem to be trying to stop any confusion, but by adding them, I feel you have added to it (I hope you understand this ;) ). By removing the symbols and examples, you have more room to expand on the picture example making that even more clear. A simple line of text saying it goes over borders as well should suffice. What is your opinion on this?

Les Bonus.
    +1 auto deploy dueller
      Do all duellers get an auto deploy?
    If I hold Henri or Charles, I double my bonus?
      So if I hold Henri and all of the green men in Port Neufue, what is my bonus? Or does the doubling or the bonus only happens when I hold the bonus (both green and yellow duellers)?
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Re: * Massacre à Paris [13.8.13] V13 P9 Gameplay ?

Postby cairnswk on Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:59 am

koontz1973 wrote:cairns, honestly, I cannot see much wrong with this - but:

Movement between duellers is pretty well explained in the legend and I like the idea of having a map with no lines on it. But the symbols are overtly complicated IMO when you attack over borders. When you need to start adding examples in the legend, it might be time to try and have a think about a different way. When you consider that you have explained how the attacks work, why the need for the symbols at all? By adding the symbols and text, on the one hand you seem to be trying to stop any confusion, but by adding them, I feel you have added to it (I hope you understand this ;) ). By removing the symbols and examples, you have more room to expand on the picture example making that even more clear. A simple line of text saying it goes over borders as well should suffice. What is your opinion on this?


Yes koontz i agree re no lines, that would be horrendous, but this is what the players who input into this map couldn't quite understand, and the borders of who was able to attack whom was most in dispute.
Thus the symbols were added to stop the confusion for those inputting.
I knew what i was about, but they didn't, so it stays as it is i am afraid.

Les Bonus.
+1 auto deploy dueller
Do all duellers get an auto deploy?

Yes

If I hold Henri or Charles, I double my bonus?

by them selves, no.

So if I hold Henri and all of the green men in Port Neufue, what is my bonus?
4

Or does the doubling or the bonus only happens when I hold the bonus (both green and yellow duellers)?

well no,
henri is protestant - green
charles is cathloic - yellow
so you can't have them siding with the opposite team, can you.

You should read the previous 8 pages to see how this map came to this :)
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Re: * Massacre à Paris [13.8.13] V13 P9 Gameplay ?

Postby koontz1973 on Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:10 am

cairnswk wrote:You should read the previous 8 pages to see how this map came to this :)

I know their was something I should of done . :P

So Port Neufue is worth a total of 4 in auto deploys, 2 as a normal bonus or 8 if I hold 2 other regions (Charles and Henri). That is a lot to hand out?
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Re: * Massacre à Paris [13.8.13] V13 P9 Gameplay ?

Postby cairnswk on Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:24 am

koontz1973 wrote:
cairnswk wrote:You should read the previous 8 pages to see how this map came to this :)

I know their was something I should of done . :P

So Port Neufue is worth a total of 4 in auto deploys, 2 as a normal bonus or 8 if I hold 2 other regions (Charles and Henri). That is a lot to hand out?


their > there

at present...
if you hold all of port neufue there are 4 autodeplays plus 2 for the region.
if you also hold either Charles or Henri then it's 4 autodeploys, plus 4 for the region.
if yuo hold both Charles and Henri then it's 4 autodeploys, plus 8 for the region.
yes it is a lot , but if you had the king on your side in those days, wasn't it like having extra strength?
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Re: * Massacre à Paris [13.8.13] V13 P9 Gameplay ?

Postby sempaispellcheck on Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:51 am

Thank you both. I understand it perfectly now.

One question, though, cairns:
If you hold Charles and all Catholics in a region, but NOT all Huguenots in the region, do you want that to give a bonus as well?

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Re: * Massacre à Paris [13.8.13] V13 P9 Gameplay ?

Postby cairnswk on Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:56 am

sempaispellcheck wrote:Thank you both. I understand it perfectly now.

One question, though, cairns:
If you hold Charles and all Catholics in a region, but NOT all Huguenots in the region, do you want that to give a bonus as well?

sempai


no. if you hold Charles and catholics in a region, you get the bonus, that's what the legend says.
why would you give a bonus for NOT holding all the Huguenots?
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Re: * Massacre à Paris [13.8.13] V13 P9 Gameplay ?

Postby koontz1973 on Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:02 pm

OK, now that we agree on the bonuses being a lot, is there a way to negate some of it maybe? Here are some ideas for you to have a think about. Each one should be seen as a single idea as they may not work together.

[1]Double the bonus once only for either Henri or Charles.

[2]With the auto deploys being a large part of the bonuses, how about reducing the region bonuses by 50%? This would work better if you ignore [1]. So the first doubling will give you a normal bonus for the region and the second would give you double.

[3]You could introduce a captain of the guard or two into each region for the auto deploys (should be easy to add and would not take up any extra room). Hand these out as starting positions so your neutrals are not effected too much. I am not sure (I will ask ian) if a map of all auto deploy would be OK.
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Re: * Massacre à Paris [13.8.13] V13 P9 Gameplay ?

Postby cairnswk on Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:05 pm

koontz1973 wrote:...
[2]With the auto deploys being a large part of the bonuses, how about reducing the region bonuses by 50%? This would work better if you ignore [1]. So the first doubling will give you a normal bonus for the region and the second would give you double.
...

i think this option is acceptable for the small regions :)
but not sure about the larger regions...perhaps some adjustment needed for the larger.
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Re: * Massacre à Paris [13.8.13] V13 P9 Gameplay ?

Postby koontz1973 on Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:09 pm

cairnswk wrote:
koontz1973 wrote:...
[2]With the auto deploys being a large part of the bonuses, how about reducing the region bonuses by 50%? This would work better if you ignore [1]. So the first doubling will give you a normal bonus for the region and the second would give you double.
...

i think this option is acceptable for the small regions :)
but not sure about the larger regions...perhaps some adjustment needed for the larger.

I will run the numbers tonight then to see what the calculator spits out at me. Then see what might be good numbers.
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Re: * Massacre à Paris [13.8.13] V13 P9 Gameplay ?

Postby cairnswk on Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:12 pm

koontz1973 wrote:
cairnswk wrote:
koontz1973 wrote:...
[2]With the auto deploys being a large part of the bonuses, how about reducing the region bonuses by 50%? This would work better if you ignore [1]. So the first doubling will give you a normal bonus for the region and the second would give you double.
...

i think this option is acceptable for the small regions :)
but not sure about the larger regions...perhaps some adjustment needed for the larger.

I will run the numbers tonight then to see what the calculator spits out at me. Then see what might be good numbers.


koontz, do we need an adjusted calculator for new 12 player games?
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Re: * Massacre à Paris [13.8.13] V13 P9 Gameplay ?

Postby koontz1973 on Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:14 pm

cairnswk wrote:koontz, do we need an adjusted calculator for new 12 player games?

A difference between the 8 and 12 layer games should be so small it is not worth it. As it is a smaller jump than the current 2-8 player games it is already programmed for. But another good question that others may of overlooked. I will raise it with the higher ups.
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