Conquer Club

cairns, I am having a lot of trouble reading any of the text that is not part of the playing area. So you know, the white text under the title is he easiest for me to read but some of the bonus text is almost unreadable. You have the fleur de lis in colour so maybe the text can go into white. An idea, use it or not, this is up to you, enlarge the fleur de lis and put the number on it. That might give you room to bold the text like under the title.

The map is much easier to read now for sure ; I can more clearly see the bonus borders. I agree with koontz that the portraits would look cooler drawn but of course this is easy for us to say.
I did prefer the swordsmen before though, the old image is gone so I can't say why. I think that they all look like girls now.

I am confused about the word impracticable. That means impossible and not impassable.
The building above the wording cour du louvre blends in to the ground, a different color might look good.
Some of the chimneys on the buildings might need a touch more detail than black squares.
This version is easier to understand.

A good bit of the men in this time period either did have long hair or they wore wigs.

show

It might be neat too for the men with black underwear to be wearing a green cape like the one man in this picture. I will leave that up to
your artistic discretion though.

show

sorry this pic isn't very big but maybe you can still spot him.

koontz1973 wrote:cairns, I am having a lot of trouble reading any of the text that is not part of the playing area. So you know, the white text under the title is he easiest for me to read but some of the bonus text is almost unreadable. You have the fleur de lis in colour so maybe the text can go into white. An idea, use it or not, this is up to you, enlarge the fleur de lis and put the number on it. That might give you room to bold the text like under the title.

OK, i give you enlarged FLD with numbers on it, and increased the other text.

Funkyterrance wrote:The map is much easier to read now for sure ; I can more clearly see the bonus borders. I agree with koontz that the portraits would look cooler drawn but of course this is easy for us to say.
I did prefer the swordsmen before though, the old image is gone so I can't say why. I think that they all look like girls now.

girls...well only early days...so we'll see...

generalhead wrote:I am confused about the word impracticable. That means impossible and not impassable.
The building above the wording cour du louvre blends in to the ground, a different color might look good.
Some of the chimneys on the buildings might need a touch more detail than black squares.
This version is easier to understand.

A good bit of the men in this time period either did have long hair or they wore wigs.
...
It might be neat too for the men with black underwear to be wearing a green cape like the one man in this picture. I will leave that up to
your artistic discretion though.
...
sorry this pic isn't very big but maybe you can still spot him.

the word impracticable is the french translation for "impassable"
if someone who is fluentent in french has an alternativer i.e. sempaispellcheck,
i would be glad to hear it...for now it will remain until i hear from sempai.

OK, OK. enough of the graphics comments and suggestions. That comes later.
For now, please let's get down to discussion on gameplay.
Does everyone hear.....GAMEPLAY please.

Gameplay discussion please.

Version 6.

cairns, clarify this for me please.
Apart from the neutral starts, you have 116 (first post) starting positions. Is this correct?
You have on the map that the duellers are +1 auto deploy. Will players also get deployable troops? If so, how many. Small games you would get rather a lot. How do you counter first go advantage? If no deployable troops, this needs to be stated somewhere on the map and in the game play notes.
With the black pants, whilst they are easier to see now why not have a different shirt colour and trousers. The Garde du Corps (royal bodyguard) where red with a blue coat. Bloody hell, did they not have colour blind people back then. But this might be a better way to show getting into the building.
You say, duellers immediately forward of a passageway have access to an opponent. I take it you mean the breaks in the impassables? This might be tricky but how about showing a dueller straddling the divides?


Text is a lot better, thanks apart from bottom left.

I am color blind as well so I hope that this is taken into consideration whilst fine tuning this map as I am already a fan of it. While I love the Waterloo map I have had some real troubles with it in the past due to zones being too close in color for me to distinguish. Give the guys yellow and pink tights if you have to.
Ok, on topic with gameplay...
My biggest concerns with maps are drop issues. That being said I may need clarification on the attack routes. For instance, in the case of H01, CO2, CA, and HB, are all four of these terts considered adjacent? Also, from what I can tell you can only assault the buildings from the front? If this is the case I feel that the Cour du Lourve zone may be a game ender once secured. An even drop would of course delay this progression but an uneven one seems like it could make for a short and potentially unbalanced game. This may or may not apply to Place du Carousel as well but these things are of course hard to tell until the map is actually played. Perhaps a route between those two zones, either by the little alleyway or from Carousel to the building?

Funkyterrance wrote:I am color blind as well so I hope that this is taken into consideration whilst fine tuning this map as I am already a fan of it. While I love the Waterloo map I have had some real troubles with it in the past due to zones being too close in color for me to distinguish. Give the guys yellow and pink tights if you have to.
Ok, on topic with gameplay...

terrance, did you check the previous page of posts and the first page to see that there is a CB version already done?
If you had, you would know whether these colours are suitable for you.

Cairns,

A nice idea but I really can't tell which regions can attack each other at the moment.

Funkyterrance wrote:...
My biggest concerns with maps are drop issues. That being said I may need clarification on the attack routes. For instance, in the case of H01, CO2, CA, and HB, are all four of these terts considered adjacent?

OK, i will fix that issue over borders.

Also, from what I can tell you can only assault the buildings from the front? If this is the case I feel that the Cour du Lourve zone may be a game ender once secured. An even drop would of course delay this progression but an uneven one seems like it could make for a short and potentially unbalanced game. This may or may not apply to Place du Carousel as well but these things are of course hard to tell until the map is actually played. Perhaps a route between those two zones, either by the little alleyway or from Carousel to the building?

I assume you mean Place de Carrousel 4...
i really don't want open up that route between PdC4 and Cour du Louvre...while i understand you have concerns about it, you haven't explained it well enough to convince me that this would in the best interest of the even balanced game.

This might be tricky but how about showing a dueller straddling the divides?

i think that would seem logocial to do, but it might also confuse others quite a deal.
I have a fix.

ManBungalow wrote:Cairns,

A nice idea but I really can't tell which regions can attack each other at the moment.

Oh, dear how many lessons does it take to connect the dots.

MB, the instructions say that duelers can assault other duelers in their immediate vicinity i.e. the guy next door...
does not that give you some idea of who can assault who from simply looking at the map on either side of the region borders?

I don't know if this would be graphical or technical so please don't get mad at me.
The gentleman at c36 might need turned the other way, it looks like he is dancing with his partner.
At first I had a hard time telling who could attack who on the old maps, but with the new legend it is pretty easy to understand.
This should be in the main foundry correct?

generalhead wrote:I don't know if this would be graphical or technical so please don't get mad at me.
The gentleman at c36 might need turned the other way, it looks like he is dancing with his partner.

Promise i won't get mad if you create humour
yes, those duelers at those angles will be difficult but that is a graphics issues...gameplay discussion please.

At first I had a hard time telling who could attack who on the old maps, but with the new legend it is pretty easy to understand.
This should be in the main foundry correct?

I hope it will get easier for all with the new version i am working on.

koontz1973 wrote:cairns, clarify this for me please.
Apart from the neutral starts, you have 116 (first post) starting positions. Is this correct?

Yes

You have on the map that the duellers are +1 auto deploy. Will players also get deployable troops? If so, how many. Small games you would get rather a lot. How do you counter first go advantage? If no deployable troops, this needs to be stated somewhere on the map and in the game play notes.

Perhaps we need to minimise that somehow

With the black pants, whilst they are easier to see now why not have a different shirt colour and trousers. The Garde du Corps (royal bodyguard) where red with a blue coat. Bloody hell, did they not have colour blind people back then. But this might be a better way to show getting into the building.

Were the Garde Du Corps around in 1574? Yes since 1419...so i will see about that later in graphics...please remind me if i forget. However, i'll also take account that they were red and blue and we've already had troubles with red for CB issues.

You say, duellers immediately forward of a passageway have access to an opponent. I take it you mean the breaks in the impassables? This might be tricky but how about showing a dueller straddling the divides?
Text is a lot better, thanks apart from bottom left.

Those issues should be fixed this version 7

generalhead wrote:...This should be in the main foundry correct?

your guess is as good as mine

ManBungalow wrote:Cairns,
A nice idea but I really can't tell which regions can attack each other at the moment.

I hope this is clearer MB.

Funkyterrance wrote:...That being said I may need clarification on the attack routes. For instance, in the case of H01, CO2, CA, and HB, are all four of these terts considered adjacent? Also, from what I can tell you can only assault the buildings from the front? ...

I hope this version clarifies this for you

Version 7

Awesome! every thing has been made clear.

Awesome! every thing has been made clear. Much better.

and this is a general 88s vision (from xml) of what it may look like at start

Al right cairns, I can start to see where this one is going now, it take me time sometimes to see these things. All looking good. As always, sticky for a few days and then you get the move.

koontz1973 wrote:Al right cairns, I can start to see where this one is going now, it take me time sometimes to see these things. All looking good. As always, sticky for a few days and then you get the move.

Thank-you koontz for keeping as always the stuff upper lip...holding up the process...instead of getting this into workshop where players can see it the gameplay discussion area, you're going to hold it up for a few more days...congratuations...are you sure you didn't work for the Brits before WWI before the "parade ended"...sometimes the bueacracy never ceases to amaze me
no offense koontz, but holding up a map for the sake of process is simply plain stupid.

cairnswk wrote:Thank-you koontz for keeping as always the stuff upper lip...holding up the process...instead of getting this into workshop where players can see it the gameplay discussion area, you're going to hold it up for a few more days...congratuations...are you sure you didn't work for the Brits before WWI before the "parade ended"...sometimes the bueacracy never ceases to amaze me
no offense koontz, but holding up a map for the sake of process is simply plain stupid.

No it is not stupid. And I did not hold the map up for the sake of the process. I held this one up as I was not sure which way you where going with it so until I was, I kept it here as per the drafting room guidelines.
As for the playable image, you only provided bonuses 2 days ago and text that I could read yesterday, and finished that of with the update before your 88 tests. All done whilst I was asleep. I asked you a gameplay question about the starting advantage which you have answered with this:

Perhaps we need to minimise that somehow

You want ideas from us, but you have not given any indication of what your ideas would be, what your preference would be. I gave you the benefit of the doubt as you have made many many maps and gave you the sticky. I did this as soon as I had logged on.

So where in your opinion have I held this up for the sake of it?

koontz1973 wrote:

cairnswk wrote:Thank-you koontz for keeping as always the stuff upper lip...holding up the process...instead of getting this into workshop where players can see it the gameplay discussion area, you're going to hold it up for a few more days...congratuations...are you sure you didn't work for the Brits before WWI before the "parade ended"...sometimes the bueacracy never ceases to amaze me
no offense koontz, but holding up a map for the sake of process is simply plain stupid.

No it is not stupid. And I did not hold the map up for the sake of the process. I held this one up as I was not sure which way you where going with it so until I was, I kept it here as per the drafting room guidelines.
As for the playable image, you only provided bonuses 2 days ago and text that I could read yesterday, and finished that of with the update before your 88 tests. All done whilst I was asleep. I asked you a gameplay question about the starting advantage which you have answered with this:

Perhaps we need to minimise that somehow

You want ideas from us, but you have not given any indication of what your ideas would be, what your preference would be. I gave you the benefit of the doubt as you have made many many maps and gave you the sticky. I did this as soon as I had logged on.

So where in your opinion have I held this up for the sake of it?

koontz...yes i have done many maps, and because of the process of this foundry where everyone gets to have a say, i quite often now hold back on my opinions about how things should work, since my ideas may not always be the best for the map, and others e.g yourself, funkyterrance, DoomYoshi etc. in this map may have ideas that will enhance the playability of the map particarliy (since conditional border were discussed as one stage), and everyone seemed to have difficulty at how the connections worked since i failed to state clearly in everyone else's language their machanics.
I beleive i gave the main coditions for what my ideas were for the map at the start, and this has now been somewhat enhanced and i have had to improve the graphics towards same.
If i only provided the main conditions for the map while you were asleep, then now that they seem to be provided, holding it up does nothing for the discussion process.
So continue, if you want to hold it up...

So continue, if you want to hold it up...

Thank you for giving me permission.

And as always, I stickied when conditions warranted it and will move it 48 hours later as per my normal routine. I am not stopping you talking about game play or graphics while here. In fact, I encourage it as it means less work later for the game play and graphics mods.

koontz1973 wrote:

So continue, if you want to hold it up...

Thank you for giving me permission.
...

oh you didn't need my permission !

Cairns, when I stated I was hopeful that the map would take color-blindness into consideration I mean in general. I'm not all that familiar with the drafting process so I didn't know whether or not once a change was made if it was permanent and tbh I still had a little trouble telling the black pants from the brown(?) pants. I just figured I would get my 2 cents in before the map was advanced to the next stage, causing you to get further agitated.

I still would appreciate a direct answer to this question:

Funkyterrance wrote: For instance, in the case of H01, CO2, CA, and HB, are all four of these terts considered adjacent?

If I knew the answer to this question I would have a better idea whether or not my fears of an unbalanced map were warranted. If the borders of certain bonus areas are 2 terts wide as opposed to 1 it would make a world of difference.

I've got a suggestion that may be helpful: Make pavestones or something on the ground under the duelers so that it is obvious who can attack who. As it stands it could be a bit jumbled. Something like a dueler can attack any adjacent pavestone. It's just the sort of thing that could make the difference between someone trying or not trying out the map based on how easily read it is. If you don't know what I mean by pavestones I can try to clarify.