[Abandoned] - Los Angeles

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Re: Los Angeles - update pg 2 with freeways!

Postby bryguy on Thu May 15, 2008 9:16 am

yes do stars, or maybe stars with circles in the middle ;)
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Re: Los Angeles - update pg 4 with mountains!

Postby oaktown on Tue May 20, 2008 12:46 am

Click image to enlarge.
image


Cleaned some things up, made some things simpler, and spent a lot of time making mountains. I think they look quite nice. Oh, and some sample Army Stars. 8-)

Obviously the rest of the graphics haven't been brought up to speed - the regions look like shizzle - but let's talk more about the freeways and how they're going to work in this game.

If we're going to assign bonuses for portions of freeways, it really frees us up to do what we want with the regions. No longer do we need small regions that players can grab and hold early, because anything can become a small bonus - just string some freeway bits together and you're off to the races. If people like the freeway chunking idea I might like to:
• Restore Orange County to one big region
• Make one big region out of what should be LA proper - Mid City plus South Central could just become a Los Angeles City region. Bev Hills and Crenshaw could be brought together to eliminate one border (Wilshire would be protected).
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Re: Los Angeles - update pg 4 with mountains!

Postby Bones2484 on Tue May 20, 2008 12:22 pm

I guess my question with the freeway bonus that you brought up would be what are the points of interchanges? If the bonus is only getting applied to territories along the same freeway then we aren't taking advantage off all the crossings. I can't even begin to imagine the confusion that would be caused by the territory per section of the freeway bonuses.

I still like your original idea of making it possible to attack along freeways a few set spaces away. We can even work "sig alerts" in to this and make some freeways "better" than others by allowing you to attack more spaces away. I'd love to see the 10 only allow 2 space attacks while the 57 (for example) can attack up to 4 away. Although I have to admit that I don't know how that would work after changing freeways at an interchange.

edit: I *love* the Hollywood sign in there by the way!
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Re: Los Angeles - update pg 4 with mountains!

Postby bryguy on Tue May 20, 2008 1:39 pm

The mountains look great oak!


1) with the title in the upper left, i think u should move the palm tree up there also
2) I like the stars instead of circles, although in some places your gonna have to have them a littler darker/lighter
3) Maybe having bonuses for holding an entire freeway?
4) Are u gonna have territory lines along the edges of the colors? cause right now u dont...
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Re: Los Angeles - update pg 4 with mountains!

Postby Unit_2 on Tue May 20, 2008 2:03 pm

Not LAX, M13
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Re: Los Angeles - update pg 4 with mountains!

Postby oaktown on Tue May 20, 2008 2:28 pm

Bones2484 wrote:I guess my question with the freeway bonus that you brought up would be what are the points of interchanges? If the bonus is only getting applied to territories along the same freeway then we aren't taking advantage off all the crossings. I can't even begin to imagine the confusion that would be caused by the territory per section of the freeway bonuses.

I still like your original idea of making it possible to attack along freeways a few set spaces away.

Agreed - it would be fun to bring in to play the ranged attacks, but we'll have to be careful about this - there are so many freeways it could really wreak havoc on gameplay. And it seems odd that you can leapfrog somebody else's territory to attack at a distance, but I guess that's the way freeways work - you only really "control" the freeway when you have three consecutive chunks of it.

As it is the interchange territories are still important because each one contributes to multiple bonuses... if you hold downtown you can go two spaces in any direction and wrap up an easy +1.

Bones2484 wrote:We can even work "sig alerts" in to this and make some freeways "better" than others by allowing you to attack more spaces away. I'd love to see the 10 only allow 2 space attacks while the 57 (for example) can attack up to 4 away. Although I have to admit that I don't know how that would work after changing freeways at an interchange.

I'm not sure how this would work either... hmm... maybe better to keep this one simple - any freeway can be clogged up, though the 101 is always a mess in my opinion.

Bones2484 wrote:edit: I *love* the Hollywood sign in there by the way!

gosh, thanks! There will be more fun stuff like that with each new version, I hope. Any requests? I was thinking Watts Towers might be next.
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Re: Los Angeles - update pg 4 with mountains!

Postby Bones2484 on Tue May 20, 2008 2:58 pm

oaktown wrote:gosh, thanks! There will be more fun stuff like that with each new version, I hope. Any requests? I was thinking Watts Towers might be next.


My personal request would be the Big A along the 57 in Orange. http://www.flickr.com/photos/trainman/32819226/
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Re: Los Angeles - update pg 3 with mountains!

Postby mibi on Tue May 20, 2008 3:25 pm

those mountain wreak havoc with the perspective.
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Re: Los Angeles - update pg 3 with mountains!

Postby Incandenza on Tue May 20, 2008 5:02 pm

A few quick things, in no particular order:
How about holding an extra bonus for an interchange? Maybe downtown (the four-level) starts neutral, but it's worth +1 and counts as a freeway terit for each of the relevant freeways?

I like the concept of sigalerts, but I don't see how it could be practiced, save by using neutrals in key areas. Besides, any one of those freeways can be an absolute clusterfucked nightmare depending on the time of day (just try getting from work on the westside to anaheim in time for a 7:05 first pitch... it's enough to make you want to blow your brains out)

Ranged attacks along freeways seems like the best bet to make freeways an integral part of the gameplay (rather than just a parallel bonus structure), given that the platonic ideal of freeways is, of course, moving quickly through an area. This would add to the importance of interchanges. I'd say keeping the ranged attacks at 2 across the board might be the simplest way to go.

You might want to rename Wilshire Blvd. to Mid-Wilshire or Miracle Mile.

I agree with mibi that the perspective of the mountains (especially around the SF and SG Valleys) is a bit rough, but I know it's just a first draft, so not a big deal at this point.
Obviously Silverlake (I always thought it was one word, but wikipedia just proved me wrong) is going to be a tight fit when it comes to placing an army circle.

The 'd' in Marina del Rey should be uncapitalized.

Hawthorne is misspelled.

Love the Hollywood sign . Other potential attractions: the Big A (as already mentioned), the Santa Monica Pier, the Rose Bowl (Pasadena), the Getty (in the mountains along the 405), the Matterhorn... and don't forget Inc's Pimpin' Bachelor Pad (Hollywood). :D

By and large, comin' along nicely, good sir.
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Re: Los Angeles - update pg 3 with mountains!

Postby oaktown on Tue May 20, 2008 6:42 pm

mibi wrote:those mountain wreak havoc with the perspective.


Right... the mountains actually achieve the perspective I'd like to ultimately give to this map: looking in as if from the air, like a tourist postcard. It's everything else I need to work on.

The Big A? As an A's fan the idea makes me shudder. I was kinda thinking I'd put Space Mountain in Anaheim, but I could be persuaded to give a nod to the L.A. A-of-A's. :lol:

Don't think I've left space for Dodger Stadium either.

As noted, Silver Lake is clearly too small. It might be dropped completely, especially if we can lump Mid-City and South Central together in as one region... the idea wold be to shorten Wilshire (which would make sense to change it to Miracle Mile) and possibly create another non-border territory.
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Re: Los Angeles - update pg 3 with mountains!

Postby RjBeals on Tue May 20, 2008 7:12 pm

nice mountains - did you draw them?
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Re: Los Angeles - update pg 3 with mountains!

Postby oaktown on Tue May 20, 2008 7:22 pm

RjBeals wrote:nice mountains - did you draw them?

yep... took some time, but once i figured out the best method they were pretty easy. I could do them in my sleep now.
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Re: Los Angeles - update pg 3 with mountains!

Postby RjBeals on Tue May 20, 2008 7:27 pm

nicely done. Did you utilize the bevel function? Or did you create a custom brush? Please share!! (PM If you prefer - or bring it to aadomm).
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Re: Los Angeles - update pg 3 with mountains!

Postby oaktown on Tue May 20, 2008 7:37 pm

RjBeals wrote:nicely done. Did you utilize the bevel function? Or did you create a custom brush? Please share!! (PM If you prefer - or bring it to aadomm).


Actually all I did was cover an area in dark brown and added a clipping mask to the dark brown layer... on the clipping mask I used a soft small brush at about 20% opacity to paint light brown down what I thought should be the west sides of mountains. Like I said, it took some time and my eyes were ready to pop, but it got the effect i wanted.

Of course, I wouldn't suggest anybody attempt this without a tablet. i can share more in AADOMM if you'd like - that's enough thread hijacking! :)
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Re: Los Angeles - update pg 3 with mountains!

Postby Bones2484 on Wed May 21, 2008 12:35 am

oaktown wrote:The Big A? As an A's fan the idea makes me shudder. I was kinda thinking I'd put Space Mountain in Anaheim, but I could be persuaded to give a nod to the L.A. A-of-A's. :lol:


The thing that worries me about that is infringing on Disney... that's never a fun thing to do!

But if you can get away with it, I think the Castle or Matterhorn is more recognizable (and would make a cooler picture) than Space Mountain.
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Re: Los Angeles - update pg 3 with mountains!

Postby oaktown on Sat May 24, 2008 1:19 pm

Click image to enlarge.
image


I've done some work on the perspective, and tinkered with the regions and territories a bit. With all of the potential bonuses for stringing together freeways I don't think this map needs small, easy to hold regions.

I'm still having issues with how the ranged attacks will work... it means pretty much everything is a border territory, and it makes it that much more difficult to string together freeway bits. Let's discuss further.

XML is going to be a bitch on this map!

Note that the region bonuses at the bottom of the map are based on absolutely nothing.

And the grid is there to help with the perspective - I realize it floats up into the air!
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Re: Los Angeles - update pg 4

Postby gimil on Sat May 24, 2008 2:44 pm

[adv. idea]

On your way again oaktown :)
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Re: Los Angeles - update pg 4

Postby whitestazn88 on Sun May 25, 2008 1:12 am

well oak, i'd say look into some research on where real exits are on the freeways we have right now, and based on the most popular exits, like hollywood or compton or whatever, you can make those the territs that can be ranged attacked
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Re: Los Angeles - update pg 4

Postby mibi on Sun May 25, 2008 5:22 am

how do the freeways work?, there are no interchanges.
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Re: Los Angeles - update pg 4

Postby whitestazn88 on Mon May 26, 2008 1:47 am

mibi wrote:how do the freeways work?, there are no interchanges.


i don't think he quite knows what he's doing with it yet. make suggestions to your fellow mapmaker!
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Re: Los Angeles - update pg 4

Postby oaktown on Mon May 26, 2008 1:59 am

Click image to enlarge.
image


Mibi asks how the freeways work... indeed how should they work?

I am leaning toward giving a bonus for stringing together freeway territories and NOT allowing ranged attacks along freeways, because i just feel that it will wreak havoc on the play of the game. Let me explain...

Consider the San Fernando Valley region. As it now stands it is a 6 territory region with 3 defense points, and four attackers; good for a +3 or +4 bonus. If we allow all freeways to attack territories two spaces out, suddenly the region has 5 points to defend from 11 possible attacking territories.

And it gets worse... San Gabriel Valley would have 6 defense points and 12 possible attackers, Central would have to defend against 1 attackers, and Gateway would have to defend against 19 attackers. I'd consider this overly-open gameplay!

And while we could add some well spaced-out on/off ramps here and there and make it like the New York City map, that's not really how freeways work... especially in LA where the freeways don't always move you around quite as fast as you'd like. ;)

I'm still interested in hearing possible alternatives that would give the map a twist around the freeways.

What I do like is the notion of giving incremental bonuses for stringing together freeways. It would make games in this map progress in two distinct stages: 1) a linear stage of capturing and controlling freeways to get immediate bonuses, and 2) a stage of expansion out from the freeways into the city to capture and control regions. I predict games in which multiple players start by going after one region - Orange County for example - and both collect freeways bonuses while they duke it out for control of the entire region.

I'm torn between giving a bonus for controlling any three connecting freeway territories, or just giving a bonus for connecting territories of the same freeway. Really, the key triples are already falling along a single freeway - bonuses in each valley, three potential freeway bonuses in Orange County, etc. Plus, keeping it along the same freeway makes it much easier to explain and cuts down on the XML headaches; and believe me, the XML will indeed be a headache. Making the freeway bonuses fall along individual freeway lines will require coming up with different colors for each freeway just to keep things straight.

The territory bonuses shown on the map reflect what i have calculated each region to be worth on top of the freeway bonuses you will also collect for holding the entire region. For example, Orange County comes out to be worth +8, so while the +3 looks low you have to remember that there is a +3 and two +1 freeway bonuses that you will collect in addition to the region bonus.
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Re: Los Angeles - update pg 4

Postby TaCktiX on Mon May 26, 2008 9:38 pm

I really like the simple bonus-added mechanic of the freeways, and making any cool thing would likely mar the simplicity of the map's mechanics. I would say keep those. I would be biased on allowing overlap, it would give interest strategic options.
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Re: Los Angeles - update pg 4

Postby oaktown on Tue May 27, 2008 12:33 am

TaCktiX wrote:I would be biased on allowing overlap, it would give interest strategic options.

Thanks for weighing in tacky... about that overlap, if you hold four freeway bits together, aren't you holding two sets of three? No, you're holding on three and an extra bit, so how do you say that? Maybe I don't and I just hope people get it.

Anyway, here it is with different colors on the freeways. I'll be away from the computer for the next four days, so you all can rip it to shreds while I'm gone. :D

Click image to enlarge.
image
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Re: Los Angeles - update pg 4

Postby Bones2484 on Tue May 27, 2008 11:44 am

Looking good :)

I don't know (at this point) what wording you can use to explain the 3-segment problem you mentioned... But it's going to be confusing, especially on the coding (since the coding will treat 4 segments as two 3-segments). You might just need to do every number. ie: 3segments = +1, 4segments = +2, 5segments = +3, etc.

Just for our reference:
5 Freeway has 13 Territories
405 Freeway has 13 Territories
10 Freeway has 10 Territories
57 Freeway has 6 Territories
101 Freeway has 5 Territories

I like the colors on the freeways, it makes them all look very nice. But my anal nature would like to see the 110 go under the 405 and 10 if possible!

Some additional things you may be able to draw into the map (trying to space them out on the map):
Santa Monica Pier
Rose Bowl in Pasadena
Irwindale Speedway
Queen Mary (in the ocean at Long Beach)
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Re: Los Angeles - update pg 4

Postby windmaster1 on Fri May 30, 2008 6:02 pm

ur forgetting my city lynwood

maybe put the staple center in the back ground or the Hollywood sign
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