[Abandoned] - Peru

[GeneralN20]

Mod Note: Similar Map --> viewtopic.php?f=242&t=106051

Number of Territories: 42.

Number of Continents (Regions): 8.

The map:

Click image to enlarge.

Descriptions: Peru is a rather diverse nation situated in an area which houses a Pacific coast, the Andes mountains, and the Amazon rainforest.

[*]The images currenty depict, in order from left to right, Miguel Grau (Peruvian naval hero), Ramon Castilla (Peruvian "Libertador" and iconic president), and Machu Picchu (Inca citadel built atop a mountain, recently voted as a "New 7 Wonder of the World").

[*]Made several updates as suggested. Specially focused on making the ocean better (made it more pleasing to the eye), and the mountain section (also more eye-pleasing).

[*]Legend is updated and runing effectively with the current map.

[*]Added 2 more territories to get the 42 as suggested.

[*]Currently working on: Mountains and rivers.

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/8131/perumapgt0.png

[*]Added borders of other nations, as suggested.
[*]Improved the Andes mountains, as suggested.
[*]Made some corrections to the legend, as suggested.
[*]Improved the terrain, as suggested.
[*]Changed the font of various words to Comic Sans, and the font sizes are about the same. Note that some are larger or smaller depending on the territory's size, but most are around the same size.
[*]Gave ports their names.
[*]Improved the mini-map.
[*]Made the map less longer, as suggested. Note that Peru is in its actual position, the thing that makes it seem different is that I made it more wide in order for me to include the names of the territories. I've shrunk it in length (quite a bit) from the previous version.

Some questions

1. Should I count/make the ports individual territories (Not part of any continental bonus), or should they belong to a coastal territory in the map?

2. Not really sure what to do with the blank spot in Colombia. Any ideas? I've got some, but I'd like to see other opinions.

3. Are the font colors of the territories easy to read? If not, could you give a suggestion for color change of the fonts (not much I can do for the territories themselves by this point).

4. Any other suggestions? I know I have to fix the Legend, but first I'd need for the first question to be answered.

Version 2 (Previous): http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/7779/perusd4.png

[*]Removed the "Amazon" green lines and replaced it with rivers, as suggested.
[*]Made the river color more along the lines of the Pacific Ocean, as suggested.
[*]Eliminated a number of pictures in order to make the map seem less crowded, as suggested.
[*]Changed the colors to help the color blind, as suggested.
[*]Added a mini-map, as suggested.
[*]Improved the mountains, as suggested.
[*]Moved the colors around to better locations.
[*]Removed the port in La Libertad in order to keep things balanced, as suggested.
[*]Improved the bridges and included their description in the Legend.


Version 1 (Outdated):http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/9505/peruciudadesez1.png

[*]The map has a large part of an arm of the Amazon River splitting the map between west and east.
[*]There are bridges that connect territories adjacent to the river, but there is a section between Arequipa and Cusco that is open.
[*]The Andes mountains are also in the map, but represented by thick brown lines that give the center of the map a sort-of defensive wall.
[*]In the eastern section there are green lines that symbolize the Amazon rainforest, but the only one that really blocks territories is the one in between Urubamba and Atalaya.
[*]The major ports of Peru are symbolized by the Peruvian Navy's anchor symbol, and these are all connected in such a way that players from the south can make an easy move to the north through the coast.
[*]The major and most important cities of Peru are marked by little suns, which look more like red dots with a yellow border (which look nice as well).
[*]In order to symbolize the importance (and the increase in population) the player gets a +1 bonus for each city.
[*]Holding all of the ports gives a bonus, and holding all of the cities also gives a bonus.




[*]Please, if you want to give suggestions, also remember to try and give a solution to a problem you may see.
[*]Compliments would be welcomed.


Thanks in advance.

[ZeakCytho]

Not bad for a first draft

Here are a few things that I would change:
Make the Andes Mountains actual mountains, not just lines.
Add some sort of texture to the continents. Right now the plain color for each one is too boring to look at. Alternatively, you could do some sort of a glow on each continent, like the Portugal map, or make territories different shades of the same color, like the Netherlands map.
Get rid of the pictures you're using to fill the dead space on the right. I just don't like them very much, and they're a bit pixely. Also, why's there a floating head in the middle of the ocean?

I think once you look at those things, the map will clear itself up nicely.

[bryguy]

First thing I noticed: The colors. At a first glance the colors are nice and appealing to the eye
Second thing I noticed: The colors in the north and south are to similar, which may cause problems for color blind people
Third thing: Its WAY to pixely

so, a list of things...


1) could you make the colors differ more?
2) The map is to pixely, i suggest you take a small 1 pixel brush, zoom in to 800% or more, and then draw/erase that way so that it is less pixely
3) could you make the river the same blue as the ocean?
4) I dont care for the impassables. The "amazon" impassable doesnt look good green, why not have it the same color as the river? and the Andes, im assuming those are the Andes mountains, and yet they dont look like mountains.
5) The pictures all around bug me. They crowd up the map with unneeded things. In place of the picture in the ocean, why not a mini-map for bonuses? and instead of the pictures in the gray area, why not lines for the outlines of the other countries in that area? along with names of each country.
6) Best graphix in the entire map is the ports, but you dont specify how to get to them or what territories they are attached to.
7)The words in the legend are small and pixely, and the pictures to either side of the name Peru arent that good, could you work on those?

Overall, I believe with some work that this could become a very good map. Keep up the good work

edit: oh and whats the little lake-ish thing in the lower right corner?

[GeneralN20]

Not bad for a first draft

Thanks. It's my first map too.

Well, not my "first" map, I've made others, but on paper, back in the day. This is my first using a computer program that's not Paint to make a map.

Make the Andes Mountains actual mountains, not just lines.

Lol. That would be awesome, but sadly I'm horrible at making mountains. My first attempts came out looking like...well, they're not even worth the description. My second attempt messed up the first attempt at the map, which is how I discovered you could make another layer in this program (which was nice; program is Paint.net, btw). Then I decided to do what every person does at times of trouble: use the internet. The internet had some nice pictures of mountains, and I even found some that I could use for free, but none of them really went well with the map.

Maybe Gimp has mountain creators....but can't quite remember. I'd appreciate it if anybody who knows how to create good mountains can give me some tips.

Add some sort of texture to the continents. Right now the plain color for each one is too boring to look at. Alternatively, you could do some sort of a glow on each continent, like the Portugal map, or make territories different shades of the same color, like the Netherlands map.

I don't know how to do that.

I used the British Isles, Brazil, and Netherlands maps as a basis....but could never find a way to do shading. I'll probably check out if Gimp can help out in this matter.

But yeah, I agree that the colors are a tad too plain.

Get rid of the pictures you're using to fill the dead space on the right. I just don't like them very much, and they're a bit pixely.

I'll find a way to fix that. Otherwise I'll take them out like you said.

Also, why's there a floating head in the middle of the ocean?

He's one of the few naval heroes of Peru that can be considered an American hero (not just South American): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_Grau_Seminario

I have to include him in there...added that a floating head in the ocean always looks fun.

Second thing I noticed: The colors in the north and south are to similar, which may cause problems for color blind people

Do you mean both Northern-Southern sections (Andes and Coast), or a specific northern-southern section (Andes or Coast)?

Third thing: Its WAY to pixely

Not really sure what you mean, but I guess it sounds like those mountains really need to be changed...and the pictures on the right.

2) The map is to pixely, i suggest you take a small 1 pixel brush, zoom in to 800% or more, and then draw/erase that way so that it is less pixely

I did that for the pictures of the peoples heads...but didn't really feel like doing it for the animals. I'll get to it, though.

3) could you make the river the same blue as the ocean?

Alright.

4) I dont care for the impassables. The "amazon" impassable doesnt look good green, why not have it the same color as the river?

I could do that. I'll miss the green lines, though.

Actually, that could work out nicely. Then I'd get to use my bridge some more, which really looks more like a little bug.

and the Andes, im assuming those are the Andes mountains, and yet they dont look like mountains.

Hahaha. lol. My poor mountains.

5) The pictures all around bug me. They crowd up the map with unneeded things. In place of the picture in the ocean, why not a mini-map for bonuses?

I think I'll just keep the heads of the people and do away with the animals. The idea of the mini-map sounds better than the floating head.

and instead of the pictures in the gray area, why not lines for the outlines of the other countries in that area? along with names of each country.

That was the original idea I had, but then I had to make Peru larger in order to better fit the smaller regions (Specially those in the south, like Tacna and Moquegua). Eventually, it left me with only Colombia and Brazil as the closest thing to fit in as separate names....and then Brazil has the majority of the eastern gray side (which ends up leaving a large gray circle). I'll try to fix the surroundings.

6) Best graphix in the entire map is the ports, but you dont specify how to get to them or what territories they are attached to.

Thanks. Hmm...I thought they were self-explanatory, but I suppose I should make a ports section (maybe add it along with the mini-map).

7)The words in the legend are small and pixely, and the pictures to either side of the name Peru arent that good, could you work on those?

There's not much at all I can do for the words in the legend. Nevertheless, I think I can work on the words in the name Peru.

edit: oh and whats the little lake-ish thing in the lower right corner?

[/quote]

I think it's the largest lake in South America...and supposedly located at the highest altitude (for a non-frozen lake). It's a pretty important geographic symbol of Peru.

[ZeakCytho]

I'm not familiar with Paint.net, so I can't really help with telling you how to do things. Try looking up some tutorials on using it in general online.

For mountains, I think some basic triangles will work for now. They'll be better than the lines you currently have. Graphics can always be fine-tuned later on.

As for textures, I'm not sure what the best way to do them in Paint.net is. One way is to make a layer with your texture and turn it to a low opacity or set its blending mode (does Paint.net have those?) to overlay or something similar. I know you can do that in GIMP for sure. Photoshop has nice layer effects that include textures/patterns, but Paint.net may not have that.

[GeneralN20]

I just downloaded GIMP, and I'm currently checking out the program. It's change quite a bit since I last used it....but it's still as confusing.

I'll have to play around a tad with the program to see if I can get the hang of it.

[whitestazn88]

i personally don't see the need for ports... at least not that many.

there are plenty of ways to navigate this map, looks good in terms of layout. are you using real political divisions or making them up?

as some people said earlier, definitely change the boundaries that are impassable

[GeneralN20]

i personally don't see the need for ports... at least not that many.

I could probably do away with one of them. It would have to be either the one in La Libertad (where there's a major city bonus) or the one in Piura, in order to keep the ports (and the game) balanced.

are you using real political divisions or making them up?

In terms of territories, I'm using both regions and provinces. Some regions, such as the one in the Amazon, are large and just take up unnecessary room, hence I divided them into provinces. Other regions were too small, so I left them as such. Jauja and Junin are the only ones that are rather untrue to the political divisions.

The continent bonus just has to do with locations. I had to look up which areas went best with specific places. At first I simply had 4 continent bonuses, and as time went on I added more in order to have the continental locations in a balanced and consistent look.



On bad news, GIMP still confuses me far too much, but I'm keeping it just in case I might really need it later.

On good news, I found out how to create a "relief" effect on the mountains. The good thing is that it makes them look mountain-like. I should be able to post up the new changes by today.

[GeneralN20]

Alright. I posted up the improved map.

I think the idea is itself good...but might need some more support for it to get moved up.

Meanwhile, any more suggestions?


I'll be currently trying to make the terrain more attractive. I can't make the mountains any better than they are right now, but you can express your like/dislike for them.

Here are some questions that would help me:

-What do you think I should do with that large blank spot on the right?
-Do you understand which ports belong to which city by just looking at the map?
-Can you read the words (names, phrases, etc.) correctly?


Any other comments, especially compliments, are still welcomed and will be noted (in other words, I won't ignore you).

Thanks in advance.

[ZeakCytho]

The mountains are better, but could still be improved. I'd take each little mountain triangle and make it larger, and have fewer triangles total, that way it's easier to see them.

For the dead space, consider putting the Peruvian flag there? Or some sort of state crest, which I think is what's floating north of Maynas, but larger?

The text is okay...not great, but okay. A few nitpicks - could you choose a more interesting font? The one you have now is legible, but a bit boring. And could you make all the territory names the same size? Some are larger than others right now. Just a thought - you might want to consider using a thinner font with some sort of glow around it.

If GIMP is confusing you, you might want to take a look at some tutorials online. I've always found it fairly straightforward. Just google "GIMP tutorial" and mess around with a few things. Or keep using paint.net, your choice.

For the future, could you repost the image when you give an update, so people don't need to scroll back to the first post? And it helps if you give the date the most current version was released in the title, so people know if they've seen it or not at a glance. Also, put the page number of the most recent update once the thread gets to multiple pages.

[bryguy]

1) The map seems... uh... to loooooooong. to fix this, maybe try rotating it it, since there is room at the top and bottom. That way, it will just seem more like it is taller.
2) The river looks much better!
3) Mountains... still need some work. They are to small as is, and to bright.
4)The colors are MUCh better now to me. There are no 2 shades of blue, and no 2 shades of red for the continents
5) You wrote bonus twis in the legend... so its
Bonus
Bonus

but slightly overlapped
6) Looks better in the gray areas without the pictures
7) Maybe do something like kap has done in the switzerland map. It has switzerland, then in slightly different colors surrounding it, the surrounding countries. You could have ecuadar, Bolivia, Brazil (sometiems spelled Brasil) and Chile, since thos are the surrounding areas.

Also, I suggest rotating it so that it looks more like the peru in this map:

Click image to enlarge.

[whitestazn88]

the graphics are still a little messy, you should definitely invest in photoshop or gimp.

this could be really good, but the mountains and stuff look kinda bad despite the improvement it is compared to the x's or w/e they were before

[GeneralN20]

Click image to enlarge.

It took me a couple of days, but I think the map looks much, much better. Well, that's just how I think....hopefully you think the same too.

I tried to take as many as the suggestions all of you gave me, but I might have excluded some.

Some questions

1. Should I count/make the ports individual territories (Not part of any continental bonus), or should they belong to a coastal territory in the map?

2. Not really sure what to do with the blank spot in Colombia. Any ideas? I've got some, but I'd like to see other opinions.

3. Are the font colors of the territories easy to read? If not, could you give a suggestion for color change of the fonts (not much I can do for the territories themselves by this point).

4. Any other suggestions? I know I have to fix the Legend, but first I'd need for the first question to be answered.



Once again, like before, any comment is welcome and will not be ignored, and compliments are always the most wanted.

[ZeakCytho]

1. Should I count/make the ports individual territories (Not part of any continental bonus), or should they belong to a coastal territory in the map?

I'd make the ports belong to the coastal territories. However, the map currently has 40 territories. For a two/three player game, each player starts off with 13 territories, which is not awful, but there's still a chance that the first player to go can take two of the second player's territories, dropping him to a +3 instead of +4 to start. If you could add two territories somewhere to get that nice golden 42, where everyone starts with 14 territories, this isn't a problem. If there's no good place to add territories, then it's fine as is. I'd still keep the ports part of the coastal territories, not separate.

2. Not really sure what to do with the blank spot in Colombia. Any ideas? I've got some, but I'd like to see other opinions.

I'd leave it alone for now. It's not a glaring problem with the map, so deal with it later.

3. Are the font colors of the territories easy to read? If not, could you give a suggestion for color change of the fonts (not much I can do for the territories themselves by this point).

Continent colors: The colors are all pretty bold. This can be good or bad depending on how you feel. I like bold colors, but you might want to tone yours down a bit, especially the yellow and the red. I'd also make the central coast territory a bit darker in color - keep it a cream/off white, but a bit darker.
Font colors: I can read everything fine, but the discontinuity of color is a bit jarring. There's not much you can do, though, so I'd leave it as is for now.

4. Any other suggestions? I know I have to fix the Legend, but first I'd need for the first question to be answered.

Mountains - better than before, but still need work. Try making 3-4 different little triangles and scattering those about, so you don't have the same image copy/pasted everywhere. And I'd make each out a bit larger.
Ocean - I like the texture in the southermost part, where the waves are larger. If you could use that everywhere, instead of having the waves get smaller in the north, it'd be good
Coasts - the thin light line is still there - I still recommend using a gradient and making it wider and fade into the sea better.
Textures - the discontinuity is my biggest problem with them. I'd pick a plain one and use it for every continent. Personally, I'd use the one that's on the central coast, and just have the colors differ from continent to continent. That one is simple, but better than plain color.
Dead Space - I'd put the names of the neighboring countries in them. I'd also get rid of that light grey line you have running next to the Peruvian border. Then, make all the unplayable countries the same color, and make the border between them thin. This will focus the map more on Peru.
Rivers - could you make them the same color as the lake/ocean?

Phew, think that's it for now.

[GeneralN20]

I'd make the ports belong to the coastal territories.

Thanks. I agree with you there, so now I'll go and make the legend improvements.

However, the map currently has 40 territories. For a two/three player game, each player starts off with 13 territories, which is not awful, but there's still a chance that the first player to go can take two of the second player's territories, dropping him to a +3 instead of +4 to start. If you could add two territories somewhere to get that nice golden 42, where everyone starts with 14 territories, this isn't a problem.

I never thought about this problem, thanks. I'll go and see if I can get a couple of territories in the map. I'll probably get them from the Amazon areas...

I'd leave it alone for now. It's not a glaring problem with the map, so deal with it later.

Okay.

I like bold colors, but you might want to tone yours down a bit, especially the yellow and the red. I'd also make the central coast territory a bit darker in color - keep it a cream/off white, but a bit darker.

I'll try to make the changes.

Mountains - better than before, but still need work. Try making 3-4 different little triangles and scattering those about, so you don't have the same image copy/pasted everywhere. And I'd make each out a bit larger.

Thanks. I think I can keep this current mountains as medium sized one....so now I'll make a larger and smaller version of it.

Ocean - I like the texture in the southermost part, where the waves are larger. If you could use that everywhere, instead of having the waves get smaller in the north, it'd be good

This might be a tad hard since I got the texture from a photo of the Pacific Ocean. I'll try to find a picture that assimilates more to the southern part.

Dead Space - I'd put the names of the neighboring countries in them.

Hmm...I keep trying that, but it tends to come out rather bad (There's not enough space between pictures and names). I'll give it another try.

Textures - the discontinuity is my biggest problem with them. I'd pick a plain one and use it for every continent. Personally, I'd use the one that's on the central coast, and just have the colors differ from continent to continent. That one is simple, but better than plain color.

I'd like to keep the textures as they are at the moment due to that it shows the geographic diversity of Peru.

Perhaps a way I could fix the discontinuity problem would be by lowering the brightness of some areas, specially the Central Andes zone.

Rivers - could you make them the same color as the lake/ocean?

They are the same color as the ocean (I used the ocean background for both the ocean and the rivers). Nevertheless, now that you mention it, this river reminds me of the original rivers I posted (too blue and a little hurting on the eyes). I'll use the lake's texture as the basis for the rivers and see how that comes out.

[bryguy]

I like that you added the borders for the surrounding areas, but the colors, and the water seem to have taken a step back...

Textures: Looks to me like you used pictures and set them on overlay. I cant stand any of them except for the trees in the green area. Those look awesome!!!

Mountains: Getting better! a little bit bigger is all you need and to take a 1 pixel brush to make them less pixely.

Rivers: Looks much better! same for the bridges, although they could be a tad bit larger (not much mind you)

Mountain picture in the grey area: Egad! its back! call the scotland yard! quick, someone, get The dynamic duo to save us! (mibi and dim.... )

The water: didnt really need to have a texture. It looked fine as it was.

The Legend: The words are a little blurry, but its looking better!

basically you just need to change the textures (mostly). Try something [i]simpler[/b]. If you ask around, im sure you can find a good way to do them.


Keep up the good work!

[whitestazn88]

i like the regional background/texture on the map. its really cool and captures the features of the country very well.

props for the lines of nazca

[GeneralN20]

Thanks. I also like the line of Nazca in the south.

Okay, here's the more-recent update. I might not make another in a while (going on a short trip), but I might be able to do some of this work while on the trip.

Quick Question: What exactly do I need by now to make the idea get into the main foundry?


Notes: I didn not improve the rivers or the mountains, sorry. I will make the improvements for these two things in the next version. Hope you like it.

Click image to enlarge.

Descriptions: Peru is a rather diverse nation situated in an area which houses a Pacific coast, the Andes mountains, and the Amazon rainforest.

[*]The images currenty depict, in order from left to right, Miguel Grau (Peruvian naval hero), Ramon Castilla (Peruvian "Libertador" and iconic president), and Machu Picchu (Inca citadel built atop a mountain, recently voted as a "New 7 Wonder of the World").

[*]Made several updates as suggested. Specially focused on making the ocean better (made it more pleasing to the eye), and the mountain section (also more eye-pleasing).

[*]Legend is updated and runing effectively with the current map.

[*]Added 2 more territories to get the 42 as suggested.

[*]Currently working on: Mountains and rivers.

[TaCktiX]

The most recent update looks good, but you've got a thematic clash going on. Most of it is handcrafted digital graphics, but the new territory textures are obviously actual photos of Peru. Take the photos as inspiration, and do some handcrafted magic on the image.

In the top left with the Peruvian flag, the color switch on what I assume is the nation's motto is a little too jarring. I'd suggest lighter shades of red on the flag, and an outer-glow-enhanced motto with a single solid color.

In the same area, who are the people pictured there? I would suggest tagging on their actual names to give all of us foreigners a perspective as to who they are, and let Wikipedia answer the rest for the overtly curious.

The bonus area in the bottom left is really small on the text. You've got space to make it all bigger and increasing its readability as a result.

The bridges proper remind me of crosswalks instead of actual bridges. Keeping with the classic-looking mountains, how about a woodbridge knockoff?

Finally, do you get +4 IN ADDITION to the +6 you'll garner for holding all the capitals, or will your bonus be reduced to +4? This isn't clear.

Overall, fairly good start to this map (I know you're on version 4, I haven't commented yet, so it's a start for me ), best of luck on future versions.

[whitestazn88]

i don't like the bridges in this version, they don't seem to be realistic and blend in with the rest of the style of the map... something more rustic might be better....

[ZeakCytho]

The bridges look a bit like pill-bugs

Other than that, I agree with what Tack wrote.

[GeneralN20]

Most of it is handcrafted digital graphics, but the new territory textures are obviously actual photos of Peru.

Technically speaking, only the Amazon (2 sections) and the Northern/Souther Coast (2 sections) are actual photos of Peru.

The other 4 sections, the Andes and the capital province, are not. Version 3 had an actual picture of the Andes mountains in the center sections, but as Bryguy and Zeak noted that the drastic change from section to section bothered them, I took out the Andes and instead made a simple mountainous texture that would create an easier flow. Then in the Northern Coast section I wasn't able to do a complete fill-in of the region like with the Southern Coast or the Amazon, so I had to work with a small picture and conveniently setting it in each territory to get it all nice and neat.

Take the photos as inspiration, and do some handcrafted magic on the image.

So do you want me to re-work the Amazon and Northern/Southern Coast? I really can't do it at the moment (still on the trip), but I would like to know for sure (in order for me to begin planning a change).

But then again, the green Amazon and the Northern Coast really do look like normal textures. I specially like the texture of the Amazon.

In the top left with the Peruvian flag, the color switch on what I assume is the nation's motto is a little too jarring. I'd suggest lighter shades of red on the flag, and an outer-glow-enhanced motto with a single solid color.

I'm going to completely re-work the flag. It's still under the same standards of the original version.

In the same area, who are the people pictured there? I would suggest tagging on their actual names to give all of us foreigners a perspective as to who they are, and let Wikipedia answer the rest for the overtly curious.

Sure, I'll do that. No problem.

The bonus area in the bottom left is really small on the text. You've got space to make it all bigger and increasing its readability as a result.

Will do.

Finally, do you get +4 IN ADDITION to the +6 you'll garner for holding all the capitals, or will your bonus be reduced to +4? This isn't clear.

lol. That might end up being quite the problem. I'll fix that along with the key.


Thank you for the help.

[MrBenn]

Moved into retirement - it has been a couple of months since the last post, and it doesn't look like the mapmaker is working on it any more.