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[Abandoned] - Zodiac Map

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Re: Zodiac Map(v6.3.5 on First post and page 14)

Postby Evil DIMwit on Sat Nov 13, 2010 12:08 pm

Now, Aquarius 6-Pisces 8 and Taurus 7-Gemini 9 really do look adjacent. Put distance between them, or connections between them, or players will be confused.
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Re: Zodiac Map(v6.3.5 on First post and page 14)

Postby rsacheli on Thu Nov 25, 2010 2:19 am

How is this for distinction between those that are close... as well as fixing the ares/libra strong points?

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Re: Zodiac Map(v6.4 on First post and page 14)

Postby stahrgazer on Thu Nov 25, 2010 2:43 am

No, he's right. They're too close together; they touch or nearly touch, which makes them look adjacent.
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Re: Zodiac Map(v6.3.4 on First post and page 13)

Postby Evil DIMwit on Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:09 am

1) I'm not really loving these rifts, but for gameplay purposes I can assume that you'll have some way of keeping these constellations separate by the time you get to graphics.

2) Do the wormholes have the same troop decay as the other territories next to the black holes?

3) You've still got to come up with some neutral scheme or reinforcement scheme that you like, that's fair, and that works with the current XML capabilities (See this thread for an inventory of usable XML tags).

For the last one, I still recommend putting down 1- or 2- troop neutrals on every other territory; that would make it so the huge bonus areas are easier to take, and it would make each player start with a smaller territory bonus.
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Re: Zodiac Map(v6.3.4 on First post and page 13)

Postby rsacheli on Sun Nov 28, 2010 2:24 am

Evil DIMwit wrote:1) I'm not really loving these rifts, but for gameplay purposes I can assume that you'll have some way of keeping these constellations separate by the time you get to graphics.

2) Do the wormholes have the same troop decay as the other territories next to the black holes?

3) You've still got to come up with some neutral scheme or reinforcement scheme that you like, that's fair, and that works with the current XML capabilities (See this thread for an inventory of usable XML tags).

For the last one, I still recommend putting down 1- or 2- troop neutrals on every other territory; that would make it so the huge bonus areas are easier to take, and it would make each player start with a smaller territory bonus.


I dont love the rifts either but for now they serve their purpose...
I would think the wormholes should have the same decay, because they are technically connected to the BH...
I do like the idea of set neutrals... but those wouldnt be able to be randomized, so they would have to be set ahead of time... and if not set right, then one constelation bonus might be easier to take than another... however it would give a much more fair start to the games...
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Re: Zodiac Map(v6.3.4 on First post and page 13)

Postby Evil DIMwit on Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:24 am

rsacheli wrote:I would think the wormholes should have the same decay, because they are technically connected to the BH...

It seems unclear to me so perhaps you should add "including wormholes" to the legend.

I do like the idea of set neutrals... but those wouldnt be able to be randomized, so they would have to be set ahead of time... and if not set right, then one constelation bonus might be easier to take than another... however it would give a much more fair start to the games...

If you distribute them evenly it'll probably be all right.
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Re: Zodiac Map(v6.4 on First post and page 14)

Postby rsacheli on Fri Dec 03, 2010 3:29 am

Added "including Worm Holes" to Legend
Editted some of the "Rifts" as they were crossing some connecting lines

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Re: Zodiac Map(v6.4.1 on First post and page 14)

Postby rsacheli on Fri Dec 03, 2010 3:35 am

What if I were to just do 10 or 12 randomized starting points? one in each constelation? (10 would not include aries or libra, as they would be too easy to consume right away...)
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Re: Zodiac Map(v6.4.1 on First post and page 14)

Postby Evil DIMwit on Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:17 pm

That would mean conquering anything near a full constellation would take a while.
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Re: Zodiac Map(v6.4.1 on First post and page 14)

Postby rsacheli on Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:13 am

any more input on the idea of starting points instead of random territs?
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Re: Zodiac Map(v6.4.1 on First post and page 14)

Postby ender516 on Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:13 pm

Are you suggesting a conquest-style map, with 12 starting points and the rest of the map starting neutral?
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Re: Zodiac Map(v6.4.1 on First post and page 14)

Postby rsacheli on Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:37 am

ender516 wrote:Are you suggesting a conquest-style map, with 12 starting points and the rest of the map starting neutral?


Exactly... it would give everyone a fair shot off the start...
unless i took a page out of the conquer man map and greatly reduce the territ bonuses...
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Re: Zodiac Map(v6.3.4 on First post and page 13)

Postby iancanton on Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:37 am

Evil DIMwit wrote:2) Do the wormholes have the same troop decay as the other territories next to the black holes?

rsacheli wrote:I would think the wormholes should have the same decay, because they are technically connected to the BH...

a big thumbs-up to the wormholes! aries and libra are still the easiest bonuses, but the difference between them and say, cancer, in terms of ease of holding is far less than before.

ditch the conquest map idea, which requires a lot of care and discussion as to the 8 start positions. the wormholes do more to balance the existing map than u might think.

as u say, every star that connects to either a wormhole or to the black hole ought to decay. u need to show this visually somehow, for example by giving a purplish inner glow to (or by having bright rays emanating from) each decaying star. i favour each decaying star starting neutral, so that the dust bowl problem of some unlucky players losing 7 or 8 troops instantly on their first turn doesn't happen. if u do this, then i think u don't need any other neutral starts on the board (other than the black hole and wormholes, obviously).

i assume that u intend for each wormhole to reset to only 1 or 2 killer neutrals each turn since, if u attack via a wormhole, u must go thru 2 killer neutrals to reach another star.

aquarius, taurus and leo look a bit undervalued at +5. i'd raise the latter two to +6, with aquarius being +7 (it's the only bonus where a wormhole is attached to a star that wasn't previously a border star).

ian. :)
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Re: Zodiac Map(v6.3.4 on First post and page 13)

Postby Victor Sullivan on Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:24 am

I agree with ian on all accounts. The wormholes add some much needed gameplay pizazz that wasn't there before. Like he said, include a decay for the stars bordering the Black Hole and the wormholes as well and I think you'll be good to go for gameplay. That being said, your "impassable rifts" look extremely stretched and distorted, though I imagine this will be fixed in Graphics.

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Re: Zodiac Map(v6.4.1 on First post and page 14)

Postby rsacheli on Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:16 am

ok, so basically, keep the original format of random starting points with (1-2) killer neutrals on the worm holes and (3) killer neutrals on the black hole... decay on all interior touching the blackhole...
Now, are yall suggesting that those attached to the wormholes decay as well?
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Re: Zodiac Map(v6.4.1 on First post and page 14)

Postby iancanton on Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:53 am

yes and yes (if the stars beside the wormholes don't decay, then the wormholes become a method for aries and libra to attack the large bonuses, which is the opposite of what we want).

is pisces 12 connected to taurus 9? there seems to be a faint white line that joins them together, but i'm not sure that it's meant to be there.

ian. :)
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Re: Zodiac Map(v6.4.1 on First post and page 14)

Postby rsacheli on Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:46 pm

I dont see the line you speak of...
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Re: Zodiac Map(v6.4.1 on First post and page 14)

Postby iancanton on Sun Jan 02, 2011 4:39 am

it must be my eyes then! looking closely, i see no line there after all.

as an additional bonus adjustment, try increasing scorpio to +10, since it's connected directly to 5 other constellations (maximum elsewhere is 3), as well as having to be defended at 7 points (the most elsewhere is 5).

to create some space for improving the layout of the legend, u can ditch the bonuses for fire, air, water and earth. they're unlikely to be targetted by anyone in any game.

ian. :)
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Re: Zodiac Map(v6.4.1 on First post and page 14)

Postby rsacheli on Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:52 am

iancanton wrote:try increasing scorpio to +10, since it's connected directly to 5 other constellations (maximum elsewhere is 3), as well as having to be defended at 7 points (the most elsewhere is 5).

to create some space for improving the layout of the legend, u can ditch the bonuses for fire, air, water and earth. they're unlikely to be targetted by anyone in any game.



iancanton wrote:aquarius, taurus and leo look a bit undervalued at +5. i'd raise the latter two to +6, with aquarius being +7 (it's the only bonus where a wormhole is attached to a star that wasn't previously a border star).


So aside from these bonus changes, and updating the Legend; anything else I should do for the next update?


Not yet sure how im going to work the rifts... I have been playing with some different graphic techniques but nothing really looks that good...
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Re: Zodiac Map(v6.4.1 on First post and page 14)

Postby iancanton on Sun Jan 16, 2011 1:40 pm

i'm happy with what u've done (plus those bonus and legend changes, of course). let's call in the map surveyors!

ian. :)
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Re: Zodiac Map(v6.4.1 on First post and page 14)

Postby AndyDufresne on Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:46 pm

You should add in the retrieved 13th zodiac sign, haha. :D ;)


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Re: Zodiac Map(v6.4.1 on First post and page 14)

Postby neanderpaul14 on Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:37 am

AndyDufresne wrote:You should add in the retrieved 13th zodiac sign, haha. :D ;)


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Dammit I was just gonna post that.......you beat me to it. :cry:
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Re: Zodiac Map(v6.4.1 on First post and page 14)

Postby Joodoo on Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:15 am

What does it mean when you say "The black hole decays connected by 1 including the wormhole"?
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Re: Zodiac Map(v6.4.1 on First post and page 14)

Postby ender516 on Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:55 pm

Perhaps the wording should be "Locations adjacent to the black hole decay by 1 each turn."
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Re: Zodiac Map(v6.4.1 on First post and page 14)

Postby rsacheli on Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:33 pm

ender516 wrote:Perhaps the wording should be "Locations adjacent to the black hole decay by 1 each turn."


This still doesn't convey the message that the wormholes are connected as well... I did change it a little, but can change it again if still confusing

I DISAGREE WITH THE 13th Zodiac and will NOT include it!

UPDATE will be posted shortly
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