[Abandoned] - Zodiac Map

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Re: Zodiac Map(v5.2 on First post and page6)

Postby bbqpenguin on Wed Sep 24, 2008 4:24 pm

rsacheli wrote:
drake_259 wrote::) funny that the Aquarius is in Air when its got the most to do with Water


i thought that too...........



did you arbitratilly assign the constellations to elements or is there actually some historical significance to that?
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Re: Zodiac Map(v5.2 on First post and page6)

Postby rsacheli on Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:18 pm

I did a simple search and this is the elements that are generally accepted across the interweb
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Re: Zodiac Map(v5.2 on First post and page6)

Postby benny profane on Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:29 pm

The jury is still out on the black hole issue...

But lemme see if I get these bonuses right.
Let's say I hold Pisces, Scorpio, and Cancer.
For holding each of those, I'll get a total of 20 armies.
Is the Elemental (or Seasonal, as the case may be) bonus on top of that, leading to me actually getting 33 armies?
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Re: Zodiac Map(v5.2 on First post and page6)

Postby mibi on Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:06 pm

There is way too much glow going on here.
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Re: Zodiac Map(v5.2 on First post and page6)

Postby rsacheli on Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:50 am

benny profane wrote:But lemme see if I get these bonuses right.
Let's say I hold Pisces, Scorpio, and Cancer.
For holding each of those, I'll get a total of 20 armies.
Is the Elemental (or Seasonal, as the case may be) bonus on top of that, leading to me actually getting 33 armies?



That is correct, the seasonal/elemental bonuses are in addition to the bonuses recieved by the individual constellations. Is that too much?
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Re: Zodiac Map(v5.2 on First post and page6)

Postby bbqpenguin on Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:43 am

rsacheli wrote:
benny profane wrote:But lemme see if I get these bonuses right.
Let's say I hold Pisces, Scorpio, and Cancer.
For holding each of those, I'll get a total of 20 armies.
Is the Elemental (or Seasonal, as the case may be) bonus on top of that, leading to me actually getting 33 armies?



That is correct, the seasonal/elemental bonuses are in addition to the bonuses recieved by the individual constellations. Is that too much?


i kind of don't think so. it'll still be very difficult to hold 1 individual constellation, and the difficulty of getting an element makes it that much harder because of the amount of borders you'd have to maintain. seasons should be easier to hold than elements (fewer borders to defend) so i think you should decrease the bonus for holding them so that they're a bit lower than the element bonuses
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Re: Zodiac Map(v5.2 on First post and page6)

Postby rsacheli on Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:08 pm

bbqpenguin wrote:
rsacheli wrote:
benny profane wrote:But lemme see if I get these bonuses right.
Let's say I hold Pisces, Scorpio, and Cancer.
For holding each of those, I'll get a total of 20 armies.
Is the Elemental (or Seasonal, as the case may be) bonus on top of that, leading to me actually getting 33 armies?



That is correct, the seasonal/elemental bonuses are in addition to the bonuses recieved by the individual constellations. Is that too much?


i kind of don't think so. it'll still be very difficult to hold 1 individual constellation, and the difficulty of getting an element makes it that much harder because of the amount of borders you'd have to maintain. seasons should be easier to hold than elements (fewer borders to defend) so i think you should decrease the bonus for holding them so that they're a bit lower than the element bonuses



Makes sense... will incorporate in next update
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Re: Zodiac Map(v5.2 on First post and page6)

Postby benny profane on Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:27 pm

Agreed. I would tentatively suggest:
Summer +8
Fall +8
Winter +7
Spring +7
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Re: Zodiac Map(v5.2 on First post and page6)

Postby rsacheli on Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:29 am

benny profane wrote:Agreed. I would tentatively suggest:
Summer +8
Fall +8
Winter +7
Spring +7


how did you determine these values?

I was thinking more like:
Summer +6
Fall +8
Winter +7
Spring +8

And those might even bee too high
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Re: Zodiac Map(v5.2 on First post and page6)

Postby benny profane on Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:06 am

I just went by the number of borders each season (in total) would have to defend.
They do run high, but to hold a season means you are holding A LOT of territories.
That would probably be an end game situation, so the high added bonus of the season would sort of have an effect like escalating cards. Anyways, it's just a suggestion, and I'm sure there will be plenty of discussion on bonuses to come.
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Re: Zodiac Map(v5.2 on First post and page6)

Postby MrBenn on Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:35 am

It might be worth your while checking out the bonus in one of the bonus spreadsheet calculators...

Link to the mapmaking tools :arrow: http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1410
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Re: Zodiac Map(v5.2 on First post and page6)

Postby Friskies on Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:47 pm

Beautiful map, though I fear it will be hard to decipher when it's small.
The legends are already difficult to understand. Don't use so many symbols like -, +, & at the same time. Don't use asymmetry in those texts. And make the two lines at the bottom easier to understand too... so that we don't have to search in this topic to learn the way to get bonuses.
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Re: Zodiac Map(v5.2 on First post and page6)

Postby bbqpenguin on Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:08 pm

Friskies wrote:Beautiful map, though I fear it will be hard to decipher when it's small.
The legends are already difficult to understand. Don't use so many symbols like -, +, & at the same time. Don't use asymmetry in those texts. And make the two lines at the bottom easier to understand too... so that we don't have to search in this topic to learn the way to get bonuses.


this is a good point, in the legend you use hyphens to set of the bonus names, which looks like a minus sign. try something else like a dot, a colon, or a ~
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Re: Zodiac Map(v5.2 on First post and page6)

Postby rsacheli on Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:44 pm

Friskies wrote:Beautiful map, though I fear it will be hard to decipher when it's small.
The legends are already difficult to understand. Don't use so many symbols like -, +, & at the same time. Don't use asymmetry in those texts. And make the two lines at the bottom easier to understand too... so that we don't have to search in this topic to learn the way to get bonuses.


this is the small... after this one is finished ill convert it to the larger size...
Ill change the hyphens... and make the legend a little clearer if i can...
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Re: Zodiac Map(v5.2 on First post and page6)

Postby MrBenn on Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:11 am

rsacheli, have you had much thoughts about how games might play out? Are there any aspects of the gameplay (bonuses et al) that you specifically would like to discuss?
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Re: Zodiac Map(v5.2 on First post and page6)

Postby bryguy on Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:28 am

First look at this, and I gotta admit I like it! :)

Graphix:


1) Some of the words are hard to read in the legend.
2) Could you make the colors that are the same (on the map) brighter, and slightly different? (different shades of blue, different shades of green, etc)
3) The black hole right now looks like a frisbee.... go fetch rover! :D ( :lol: )
4) Its almost impossible to read the info about the black hole
5) The background colors seem a little dull.

Gameplay:

1) How will the different constellations be named in the xml? if its named just as numbers, you cant tell which is which. If its named as like Leo 2 or such then its not a problem
2) The bonuses in places seem a little high, but thats just my opinion. No need to change them if you like
3) Whats the negatives for the blackhole? it seems like if you hold like all of gemini you will get a -10 penalty on the black hole. I dont even know how you would code that in the xml for all the possiblities. Maybe just have the black hole a killer neutral?? If you did, maybe have the number of neutrals 3? that way its easy to take, but you cant hold it indeffinately.

All for now. Looking great!
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Re: Zodiac Map(v5.2 on First post and page6)

Postby rsacheli on Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:16 pm

I currently have limited internet access... (im not supposed to be on now, but i got in thru a proxy at work)

in regard to bryguy's comments...

ill re-adjust the legend a bit, make it easier to read... to include a fix on the black-hole... i think im gonna rework it...

if i change the colors to be brighter ppl have complained about the contrast of bright on dark...

the black hole... well what does a black hole look like??? as far as im concerned... it stays...


xml territ names will be "leo1, leo2, ... ares1, ares2, etc...."

Bonuses have been reworked... (just need to get online from my laptop to upload)

and again, the black hole issue is up for discussion, i do have an idea that i will publish with the next update...




beyond that, I dont foresee any issues with gameplay...
I would like to start the XML soon, so if i can get the go ahead with the idea stamp... ill make up the large version soon, and start the XML not long after that...

The less changes i have to make to the graphics after i make the larger version the better!
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Re: Zodiac Map(v5.2 on First post and page6)

Postby TaCktiX on Sat Oct 18, 2008 2:31 pm

I fully suggest holding off on a large map until graphical feedback slows to an absolute crawl. Doing double updates is a royal pain in the butt, and I only did those for 6 versions of The Citadel (out of 25).
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Re: Zodiac Map(v5.2 on First post and page6)

Postby MrBenn on Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:59 am

MrBenn wrote:It might be worth your while checking out the bonus in one of the bonus spreadsheet calculators...

Link to the mapmaking tools :arrow: http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1410

I still think the bonuses seem a bit arbitrary... I'd like to see the results of some proper analysis from one of the bonus calculator spreadsheets to reassure me ;-)
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Re: Zodiac Map(v5.2 on First post and page6)

Postby rsacheli on Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:47 am

MrBenn wrote:
MrBenn wrote:It might be worth your while checking out the bonus in one of the bonus spreadsheet calculators...

Link to the mapmaking tools :arrow: http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1410

I still think the bonuses seem a bit arbitrary... I'd like to see the results of some proper analysis from one of the bonus calculator spreadsheets to reassure me ;-)



I ran the numbers thru one of the calculators last night... and for the individual constellations, they all came out about the same or Higher

For the grouped constellations (elements and seasons) idk if the number from the calculators would be that good... idk... ill play with that a little tonight... and look for another update in 2 or 3 days
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Re: Zodiac Map(v5.2 on First post and page6)

Postby mibi on Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:01 pm

You've entered the wall-of-criticism zone!

There is a lot about this map that doesn't sit right. It's too dark, the glow is all very muted for some reason. The text is brighter than the star spaces. The font is also a bit annoying. It's legible but only barely. You might want to adjusts the aliasing on those, looks a little anemic. There is also way to much outer glow going on period. You should find some other ways to 'starify' those spaces, be creative. Some of the connections are weird and arbitrary, like Gemini 9 is practically touching Taurus 7 but there is no connection. And some are a stretch, like Virgo 1 to Libra 1 when Libra 3 to Virgo 4 seems more natural. The legend is rather ugly. This is where Cairns would come up with some cool way to integrate the legend and title into the piece. Now it just looks like some crammed text thing. The glow on the black text is horrid and practically unreadable. Bottom line, this map needs to be looking more astrological and less lite-bright.
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Re: Zodiac Map(v5.2 on First post and page6)

Postby rsacheli on Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:31 pm

mibi wrote:You've entered the wall-of-criticism zone!

There is a lot about this map that doesn't sit right. It's too dark, the glow is all very muted for some reason. The text is brighter than the star spaces. The font is also a bit annoying. It's legible but only barely. You might want to adjusts the aliasing on those, looks a little anemic. There is also way to much outer glow going on period. You should find some other ways to 'starify' those spaces, be creative. Some of the connections are weird and arbitrary, like Gemini 9 is practically touching Taurus 7 but there is no connection. And some are a stretch, like Virgo 1 to Libra 1 when Libra 3 to Virgo 4 seems more natural. The legend is rather ugly. This is where Cairns would come up with some cool way to integrate the legend and title into the piece. Now it just looks like some crammed text thing. The glow on the black text is horrid and practically unreadable. Bottom line, this map needs to be looking more astrological and less lite-bright.


its dark because it is outerspace... and i have had "lighter" versions in the past and it didnt sit well either... this seems to be more like-able...
the glow is muted due to people complaining about high contrast hurting their eyes...
The text is only brighter because if its any less bright its next to impossible to read... and the starts cant be brighter due to the complains of brightness/contrast
The glowing is mostly to distinguish the separation of continents... the glow in the legend is just for show and to help ease the readability...
I chose the connections that I have based on where the dead ends are, as well as not having connections too close together...
Iv made some changes to the legend, idk if you will like them or not but it looks a little better...

Ill see if i can make any alterations based on your comments... (my posting of an update last week go delayed due to amount of time i actually had available during class)
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Re: Zodiac Map(v5.2 on First post and page6)

Postby MrBenn on Sat Nov 01, 2008 6:48 am

This map is on the verge of being put into retirement, as it has been over a month since the last update.

Get your skates on rsacheli!
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Re: Zodiac Map(v5.2 on First post and page6)

Postby rsacheli on Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:32 pm

if i get a chance on friday I will post the update i have been working on... (its really difficult to do during class, and thats the only time i have internet on my laptop)

if not this week then next week for sure
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Re: Zodiac Map(v5.4 on First post and page8)

Postby rsacheli on Fri Nov 14, 2008 5:39 pm

Click image to enlarge.
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