[Abandoned] - Trench Warfare!

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Re: Trench Warfare! V5 Legend goodness Pg 1/10 [I] [GP]

Postby yeti_c on Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:53 am

But Inc is a big poopoo head?

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Re: Trench Warfare! V5 Legend goodness Pg 1/10 [I] [GP]

Postby Incandenza on Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:58 pm

And yeti smells!
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Re: Trench Warfare! V5 Legend goodness Pg 1/10 [I] [GP]

Postby MrBenn on Sat Nov 01, 2008 5:48 pm

[-X Back on topic ;)
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Re: Trench Warfare! V5 Legend goodness Pg 1/10 [I] [GP]

Postby mibi on Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:54 pm

MrBenn wrote:[-X Back on topic ;)


what else is there to do around here.
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Re: Trench Warfare! V5 Legend goodness Pg 1/10 [I] [GP]

Postby Incandenza on Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:19 am

MrBenn wrote:[-X Back on topic ;)


Weeeeellllll..... do you have any graphic comments?

Or any comments about the general smelliness of yeti?
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Re: Trench Warfare! V5 Legend goodness Pg 1/10 [I] [GP]

Postby saaimen on Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:36 am

I sure don't :)
Maybe Benn doesn't like the tetris-shapes? Don't think Nintendo will threaten lack for that ;)
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Re: Trench Warfare! V5 Legend goodness Pg 1/10 [I] [GP]

Postby asl80 on Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:35 pm

just a quick one ... maybe already mentioned, but it seems by way of the graphics that the machine guns can only be entered from behind, is this correct? i think it would be good if this was so in any case.
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Re: Trench Warfare! V5 Legend goodness Pg 1/10 [I] [GP]

Postby mibi on Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:03 am

asl80 wrote:just a quick one ... maybe already mentioned, but it seems by way of the graphics that the machine guns can only be entered from behind, is this correct? i think it would be good if this was so in any case.


it is not the case, they can be 'entered' from behind or on top or even from the side.
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Re: Trench Warfare! V5 Legend goodness Pg 1/10 [I] [GP]

Postby asl80 on Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:53 am

mibi wrote:
asl80 wrote:just a quick one ... maybe already mentioned, but it seems by way of the graphics that the machine guns can only be entered from behind, is this correct? i think it would be good if this was so in any case.


it is not the case, they can be 'entered' from behind or on top or even from the side.


ok, no worries, seems good i suppose.


Incandenza wrote:XML and related issues
Conditional XML would need to be implemented
Killer neutrals respawning to a different army count would need to be implemented
Territory names in the XML (and drop-downs, obviously) will follow a "Coordinate" "Evocative Description" format, i.e. "A-3 German Front", "B-7 German Bunker", "L-3 Allied Machine Gun", and so forth. Orders territories, having no coordinates, will simply be "Allied/German Mortar/Reinforcements/Artillery", as appropriate.


Any progress on the xml upgrades inc.?
what's "conditional xml"?
the last point on the territory names doesn't seem like a real problem, on account of other maps like waterloo, and upcoming ww2europe?
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Re: Trench Warfare! V5 Legend goodness Pg 1/10 [I] [GP]

Postby Incandenza on Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:56 am

Conditional xml is basically what would be required to make the trench bonuses work properly.

And as far as xml upgrades, as always we await the kind intervention of the turtle.
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Re: Trench Warfare! V5 Legend goodness Pg 1/10 [I] [GP]

Postby yeti_c on Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:45 am

Yeah - which is why we're in this weird kinda limbo - like Maze Craze!!

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Re: Trench Warfare! V5 Legend goodness Pg 1/10 [I] [GP]

Postby Meditron on Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:06 pm

Alright first off I want to say I love the idea of a World War 1 style trench war map, as a history major the world wars are are probably my favorite parts of history to study, though there are others up there but that's really irrelevant at present.

I don't know if this has been said yet or not (I really didn't want to read all 12 pages in full) but I feel you could expand this map more and allow the German side the addition of the in-depth elastic defenses, create more of a system of trenches to work with. I don't really have any XML experience or programming knowledge to draw anything at all, but I the majority of machine guns on the German side especially were usually layered in the rear in front of the artillery so that the front trenches could be abandoned quickly to lure the enemy into heavy machine gun fire.

Additionally you could potentially have your machine guns with a certain bombard range, and then add artillery in with a longer one, since artillery played a huge roll in trench offenses up until the Germans developed new tactics (based on Russian design) at wars end.

I mean of course this is all just suggestion and feel free to ignore it, or maybe sometime someone could make a larger World War 1 trench war style map based on this that could include more aspects of the trench system but anyway that's my suggestion for the map.
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Re: Trench Warfare! V5 Legend goodness Pg 1/10 [I] [GP]

Postby Incandenza on Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:23 pm

Meditron wrote:I don't know if this has been said yet or not (I really didn't want to read all 12 pages in full) but I feel you could expand this map more and allow the German side the addition of the in-depth elastic defenses, create more of a system of trenches to work with. I don't really have any XML experience or programming knowledge to draw anything at all, but I the majority of machine guns on the German side especially were usually layered in the rear in front of the artillery so that the front trenches could be abandoned quickly to lure the enemy into heavy machine gun fire.


We've kept the trench system pretty clean and simple, especially since this is supposed to be somewhat of an abstraction of WWI trench warfare, and not a specific scenario like Verdun or the Somme. Plus the way it is now keeps the gameplay balanced, we wouldn't want a situation where the player that drops in strength on, say, the German side has a distinct advantage. Besides, there's not a lot more room to fit additional gameplay elements.

Meditron wrote:Additionally you could potentially have your machine guns with a certain bombard range, and then add artillery in with a longer one, since artillery played a huge roll in trench offenses up until the Germans developed new tactics (based on Russian design) at wars end.


Actually, that's the way it works now. Machine guns reach to the end of No Man's Land, then the mortars bombard the opposing front, so combined operations will be key to victory on this map.

Much obliged for the comments!
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Re: Trench Warfare! V5 Legend goodness Pg 1/10 [I] [GP]

Postby Meditron on Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:45 pm

Awesome, I'm not horribly familiar with the bombard feature as I typically don't play maps that feature it, but that's great that it works that way.

I wasn't trying to imply that the German side should be substantially stronger by any means, just the differences between the two sides style of trenches and tactics would be more accurately expressed in combat. I totally respect the concept of making it an abstraction though, hopefully someone can make a Somme, Ypres, or Verdun style map in the future to satisfy my insatiable history nerd hunger lol.

I'm pretty excited for this map though, so keep up the good work.
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Re: Trench Warfare! V5 Legend goodness Pg 1/10 [I] [GP]

Postby oaktown on Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:48 pm

Here's a thought that might improve legend/play clarity... what if the legend info about the "orders" (mortars and the like) were moved up to the top of the column, directly under the territories? It seems like that would just make more sense, and perhaps draw needed attention to them as territories.
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Re: Trench Warfare! V5 Legend goodness Pg 1/10 [I] [GP]

Postby mibi on Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:31 pm

oaktown wrote:Here's a thought that might improve legend/play clarity... what if the legend info about the "orders" (mortars and the like) were moved up to the top of the column, directly under the territories? It seems like that would just make more sense, and perhaps draw needed attention to them as territories.


This could work.... the legend is currently in a loose order of importance or "what will likely be used in the game" trenchs, machine guns, etc... all the way down to artillery which is the least likely scenario.

The thing about the orders is that they will definetly look like territories when they have actual army numbers on them.
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Re: Trench Warfare! V5 Legend goodness Pg 1/10 [I] [GP]

Postby Incandenza on Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:45 pm

And just to augment mibi's point: the legend as it stands basically aligns with how a game will go: in the early going you secure trenches, then move forward and take a machine gun, then hit the bunker and start chipping away at the orders... plus none of the orders are likely to come into play in the first couple of turns, giving people time to become acclimated on the map.

No matter what, people are going to make mistakes. People will misread the legend, they won't understand a certain instruction, whatever. But like I said before, the most comprehensive legend in the world won't entirely eradicate user error.... and experience is always the best teacher. Ask anyone that's marooned a huge army on an artillery in waterloo, I guarantee they'll never make the same mistake.
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Re: Trench Warfare! V5 Legend goodness Pg 1/10 [I] [GP]

Postby blue sam3 on Sat Nov 15, 2008 6:44 am

Incandenza wrote:Ask anyone that's marooned a huge army on an artillery in waterloo, I guarantee they'll never make the same mistake.


providing they aren't me anyway
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Re: Trench Warfare! V5 Legend goodness Pg 1/10 [I] [GP]

Postby mibi on Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:45 am

I wonder if there is a timeline on any xml update...it's been a while since we have had one.
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Re: Trench Warfare! V4 Pg 1/9 [I]

Postby Incandenza on Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:49 pm

Well, I'm not exactly holding my breath, but who knows?

Meanwhile, here's Version 5 again:

Click image to enlarge.
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Re: Trench Warfare! V5 Legend goodness Pg 1/10 [I] [GP]

Postby TaCktiX on Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:18 pm

This is a nitpick in the purest sense, but the G on the grid is a little too destroyed, and a quick glanceover could mistake it for a C (even though there's a C column higher up) Perhaps a little less grime on that section?
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Re: Trench Warfare! V5 Legend goodness Pg 1/10 [I] [GP]

Postby Androidz on Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:22 pm

Another nittypick the corner in 1 and A is a bit destroyed. unfilled with colours (black line. in the other area...
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Re: Trench Warfare! V5 Legend goodness Pg 1/10 [I] [GP]

Postby Hopscotcher on Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:36 pm

I have to admit I haven't read the entire log, but have you considered adding landmines somewhow? Perhaps if you take a space adjacent to a machine gun, you lose one extra troop or somesuch? just an idea.
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Re: Trench Warfare! V5 Legend goodness Pg 1/10 [I] [GP]

Postby Incandenza on Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:17 pm

Hopscotcher wrote:I have to admit I haven't read the entire log, but have you considered adding landmines somewhow? Perhaps if you take a space adjacent to a machine gun, you lose one extra troop or somesuch? just an idea.


Thanks for your interest. Landmines were discussed and ultimately rejected. It's hard enough getting across No Man's Land as it stands.

Tac and Androidz, I think we're at a point where further graphic touch-ups will be waiting on the needed xml update. But we'll definitely keep your comments in mind.
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Re: Trench Warfare! V5 Legend goodness Pg 1/10 [I] [GP]

Postby Blitzaholic on Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:50 am

whoa Incandenza with a map, awesome =D> =D> =D>

does it seem a little dark or hard to see?
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