[Abandoned] - Age of Quests

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Re: RPG Map - second go

Postby DiM on Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:01 am

foregone wrote:Couple of points:

1. Part of the problem with the blood is that it goes under the "writing" everywhere, making the writing itself pop out from the map and not seem like its written on the paper/parchment.

2. Also, while the explanation on the right is fine now, would it be legible on a small map?

3. Very minor point, and it may just be me...I can make out the symbols for everything but intelligence. I can tell where it is everywhere, just not what its supposed to be.

4. Looking awesome though, glad you came back to it.


1. yes i know the writing is on top of the blood and that's not realistic but if i put the blood to be above those layers then people won't be able to read the text or even see some terits and that would suck. probably my best bet regarding the blood is to make it look like an stain. i'll do that in the next update and see what people think

2. for me it is readable even on small but the text is going to be changed anyway

3. it's supposed to be an open book :)

4. thanks


PS: update coming in a few minutes.
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Re: RPG Map - second go

Postby DiM on Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:38 am

V4
made the blood look as a stain to improve visibility and make it more real (used to have the text layer above the blood layer and it wasn't real)
fixed blood coming off the map
added lines in the legend (yes i made them jiggly on purpose)
made the map lighter
made the seal edges broken and added a wax stain where those edges were supposed to be.
changed font all over the place (except for the seal which is waiting for a new name)
fixed letters and stuff going off the map

to-do
add neutral values on the map so people can discuss gameplay. i'll do it later cause i'm leaving to do some shopping right now



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Re: RPG Map - V4-page1&2

Postby ZeakCytho on Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:47 am

I'm not convinced by the page curl in the top right. It looks...fake.

The blood stain looks a million times better now.

The wax seal (I think it's a seal, at least) is still really hard to read.

The treasure chest bonus/penalty - is it that all blues are bonuses, and all reds are penalties, or vice versa, or some random combination where a blue could be either a bonus or a penalty, and same for the reds? If the former, then things are fine. If the latter, this gives a huge advantage to people who have played the map before and know which chests are traps and which are bonuses.

It seems to me that not all start positions are the same distance from the objective. Is this going to be evened out with the addition of neutrals?

Overall, awesome map!
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Re: RPG Map - V4-page1&2

Postby foregone on Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:56 am

Not sure, but I think I prefer the darker background.

So, new round:

1. The pencil lines look great, IMO. Very pencilly.

2. The new font on the top right seems very pixelated and maybe a little too neat. What I did like about the previous one's font was that it looked like a handwritten note on the map, like the first person to use it made notes for the next.

3. I like the broken stamp/seal, but the broken bits seem look artificial at the edges. Also, theres a white edge at the top of the seal that doesn't look quite right. Shouldn't it be the same as the black at the bottom of the seal?

4. It might just be me but the blue starting points on the map are just a shade darker than the one in the legend? My eyesight might be going though.

5. Any chance that another colour could be used for the objective? The lumo green seems slightly out of place for me.

6. The blood is better as a stain, in my opinion. I do think you could make it a tad more red though.

Hopefully this is mildly useful. :)
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Re: RPG Map - V4-page1&2

Postby yeti_c on Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:47 am

1) Good and Evil are mutually exclusive - and thus could be shortened to one column? (Alignment) - which might give you a bit more room for the slanty text to come in a bit from the edge.

2) Top right fold is pixellated.

3) Still can't read the title. (Who's the second person on the map? (Is it me?!))

C.
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Re: RPG Map - V4-page1&2

Postby DiM on Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:50 pm

ZeakCytho wrote:I'm not convinced by the page curl in the top right. It looks...fake.


yeah the curl is too pixely. i don't know why but it will be redone.

ZeakCytho wrote:The blood stain looks a million times better now.


good to hear

ZeakCytho wrote:The wax seal (I think it's a seal, at least) is still really hard to read.


yes i know normally seals are supposed to be round but a rectangular one fits better. and yes it's hard to read cause i haven't bothered to change the font until i find a suitable name for the map.

ZeakCytho wrote:The treasure chest bonus/penalty - is it that all blues are bonuses, and all reds are penalties, or vice versa, or some random combination where a blue could be either a bonus or a penalty, and same for the reds? If the former, then things are fine. If the latter, this gives a huge advantage to people who have played the map before and know which chests are traps and which are bonuses.


well, if you look at the legend you'll see some characters are good (blue) or evil (red). when a blue character takes a blue treasure chest he gets +2. if he gets a red one he gets -2. and vice versa for the other alignment.

ZeakCytho wrote:It seems to me that not all start positions are the same distance from the objective. Is this going to be evened out with the addition of neutrals?


yes they aren't at the same distance but really that should not be a problem since you're supposed to take skill terits and stuff in order to have enough troops to take and hold the objective. plus all non important terits will have 1's and travelling will be easy.

ZeakCytho wrote:Overall, awesome map!


thanks.


foregone wrote:Not sure, but I think I prefer the darker background.


me too but people said it's too gloomy. if i get more opinions on this i shall make it darker/lighter

foregone wrote:So, new round:

1. The pencil lines look great, IMO. Very pencilly.


good to hear

foregone wrote:2. The new font on the top right seems very pixelated and maybe a little too neat. What I did like about the previous one's font was that it looked like a handwritten note on the map, like the first person to use it made notes for the next.


that's why i liked the previous one too but it was kinda hard to read. i could try other fonts if people want me to.

foregone wrote:3. I like the broken stamp/seal, but the broken bits seem look artificial at the edges. Also, theres a white edge at the top of the seal that doesn't look quite right. Shouldn't it be the same as the black at the bottom of the seal?


the white thing is the light falling from top left towards bottom right so naturally the stamp being made of wax and stuff has to drop some sort of shadow hence the whiteness on top and blackness on bottom.
as for the edges what exactly looks artificial? are they too straight? or what?

foregone wrote:4. It might just be me but the blue starting points on the map are just a shade darker than the one in the legend? My eyesight might be going though.


could be. i kinda see your point but i'll check the layers to see what's the problem.

foregone wrote:5. Any chance that another colour could be used for the objective? The lumo green seems slightly out of place for me.


suggest one and i can use it.

foregone wrote:6. The blood is better as a stain, in my opinion. I do think you could make it a tad more red though.

Hopefully this is mildly useful. :)


tad more red. i can do that but i'll have to check for the visibility issues first.



yeti_c wrote:1) Good and Evil are mutually exclusive - and thus could be shortened to one column? (Alignment) - which might give you a bit more room for the slanty text to come in a bit from the edge.


i prefer the way it is now because i can put the good/evil icons on top in line with the other icons. plus if i need more space for the slanted text i can simply move the chart a tad to the left.

yeti_c wrote:2) Top right fold is pixellated.


will be redone

yeti_c wrote:3) Still can't read the title. (Who's the second person on the map? (Is it me?!))

C.


it's not supposed to be readable since i don't have a name for the map. and the name there is Kat. you will be added as soon as the map is deemed worthy of continuing. if people say it's crap and i abandon it then xml will be the least of my worries :P
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Re: RPG Map - V4-page1&2

Postby ZeakCytho on Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:04 pm

DiM wrote:
ZeakCytho wrote:The treasure chest bonus/penalty - is it that all blues are bonuses, and all reds are penalties, or vice versa, or some random combination where a blue could be either a bonus or a penalty, and same for the reds? If the former, then things are fine. If the latter, this gives a huge advantage to people who have played the map before and know which chests are traps and which are bonuses.


well, if you look at the legend you'll see some characters are good (blue) or evil (red). when a blue character takes a blue treasure chest he gets +2. if he gets a red one he gets -2. and vice versa for the other alignment.


That makes sense to me now, but it's really not at all clear from the legend. What if you made the "good" and "evil" columns one column called "alignment" instead of two separate ones. Then, by the chest, say "Chests of the same alignment give you a +2 bonus, those of opposite alignments give you -2" - or something like that.
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Re: RPG Map - V4-page1&2

Postby DiM on Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:28 pm

V5.

made the blood stain a tad more red
added various font types please tell me which one you like best.
reworded the treasure chest explanation. hope it's more clear now.
made the map just a bit darker. it should be halfway between V4 and V3
added neutral values and starting locations values. the terits that don't have a number on them have a 1 neutral army. i was too lazy to add so many numbers :P

to do:
fix curl
fix the wax seal (when foregone tells me what's wrong with the broken edges)
decide on font type
decide on a name

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Re: RPG Map - V5-page1&2

Postby foregone on Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:42 pm

DiM wrote:fix the wax seal (when foregone tells me what's wrong with the broken edges)


I've been busy staring at it continuously trying to work out how to translate it into words. The broken edges just feel too sudden to me and make it look removed from the map. What about trying to add a little ridge with a lightened colour, kinda of like broken coloured candle has a lighter colour on the inside?
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Re: RPG Map - V5-page1&2

Postby DiM on Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:47 pm

foregone wrote:
DiM wrote:fix the wax seal (when foregone tells me what's wrong with the broken edges)


I've been busy staring at it continuously trying to work out how to translate it into words. The broken edges just feel too sudden to me and make it look removed from the map. What about trying to add a little ridge with a lightened colour, kinda of like broken coloured candle has a lighter colour on the inside?


i still have no idea what exactly you want me to do :(
i'll try to rework it on my own and see if i match your wish :mrgreen:



edit//
would this be better?
i made it look like it broke in steps and partial pieces still remained at the broken edges. also i reduced the whiteness you mentioned before and made the cracks more visible.
the text is still crappy but as i said before it will be changed when i find a name.

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Last edited by DiM on Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: RPG Map - V5-page1&2

Postby MrBenn on Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:01 pm

I wonder if a circular seal would fill the space better?
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Re: RPG Map - V5-page1&2

Postby foregone on Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:05 pm

DiM wrote:
foregone wrote:
DiM wrote:fix the wax seal (when foregone tells me what's wrong with the broken edges)


I've been busy staring at it continuously trying to work out how to translate it into words. The broken edges just feel too sudden to me and make it look removed from the map. What about trying to add a little ridge with a lightened colour, kinda of like broken coloured candle has a lighter colour on the inside?


i still have no idea what exactly you want me to do :(
i'll try to rework it on my own and see if i match your wish :mrgreen:



edit//
would this be better?
i made it look like it broke in steps and partial pieces still remained at the broken edges. also i reduced the whiteness you mentioned before and made the cracks more visible.
the text is still crappy but as i said before it will be changed when i find a name.

Image


Much much better, thanks DiM. Satisfies me on that point.
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Re: RPG Map - V5-page1&2

Postby DiM on Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:06 pm

MrBenn wrote:I wonder if a circular seal would fill the space better?


indeed a circular seal would fit nicely in that corner and i wouldn't have to bother with broken edges and stuff BUT i wouldn't be able to fit the map name inside a circular seal
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Re: RPG Map - V5-page1&2

Postby DiM on Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:41 pm

V6.

redid the wax seal
removed the curl in top right corner to make room for text
added explanation that there are no diagonal attacks
changed text on map (except chart numbers)

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image



i'd like the discussion to be oriented towards the gameplay. graphics can also be done later.
so please take a look at the bonuses and the placement of skills and treasure chests and give me your opinion. i think i've done a decent job arranging them but i've been looking at the map so much that i may have missed important things so it's always better to hear an opinion from somebody else.
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Re: RPG Map - V6-page1&2

Postby foregone on Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:05 pm

On gameplay, as you requested (although I'm prob not the best for this):

So far I've only managed to stare at the bottom right corner, and it seems to me that the troll is in a far better position than the archer. As far as I can tell, the troll can get a +3 rage 5 territories up and a +3 strength 6 territories right. The archer can get a +2 within 3 territories leftward but his next closest bonus is the other +2 for strength up-left 10 territories away. The archer thus has 13 territories to wade through for a +4 to the troll's 11 for +6. And the archer's second likely +4 is very close to the beastmaster's start position.

Perhaps switching the dex at m13 and the cha at o13 would make it better for the archer's position? This way he'd only move a further 3 territories making it 7 territories for a +4 bonus vs the troll's 11 territories for a +6.
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Re: RPG Map - V6-page1&2

Postby DiM on Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:31 pm

fair point.

i guess the best way to do this is by making a chart of each character and looking at each separate skill and deciding mathematically the distance.
unfortunately i don't have the time to do it now so i'll leave it for tomorrow.
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Re: RPG Map - V6-page1&2

Postby bbqpenguin on Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:04 pm

the bloodstains now resemble spagghetio's stains...

is it supposed to be orc blood?
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Re: RPG Map - V6-page1&2

Postby cairnswk on Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:12 pm

Dim. I've just looked at this new map...starting very professional. However i will look in more on it later to understand what is going on.
For now, i can't read whatever is on the red stamp top left corner. :(
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Re: RPG Map - V6-page1&2

Postby DiM on Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:15 pm

bbqpenguin wrote:the bloodstains now resemble spagghetio's stains...

is it supposed to be orc blood?


considering ketchup and blood leave very similar stains i guess they're ok. :mrgreen:



cairnswk wrote:Dim. I've just looked at this new map...starting very professional. However i will look in more on it later to understand what is going on.
For now, i can't read whatever is on the red stamp top left corner. :(


the red wax seal is where the title goes and i haven't bothered to make it legible because i don't have a title yet.
but i just might make it legible cause everybody seems to mention it :lol:
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Re: RPG Map - V6-page1&2

Postby Kaplowitz on Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:06 pm

I dont like parchment, i think this would look better if you just made it like AoR1.
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Re: RPG Map - V6-page1&2

Postby DiM on Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:18 pm

Kaplowitz wrote:I dont like parchment, i think this would look better if you just made it like AoR1.


do you really think i can fit 261 terits and a lengthy legend if i make graphics like that? :roll:
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Re: RPG Map - V6-page1&2

Postby Kaplowitz on Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:24 pm

Why not one big island? You can still have square territories, and everything.
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Re: RPG Map - V6-page1&2

Postby DiM on Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:10 pm

Kaplowitz wrote:Why not one big island? You can still have square territories, and everything.


let's be serious. a square island with square terits is pointless.
the graphics i chose are much more suited for the needs of this map.
i don't know if you played mud games. they were huge a long time ago when graphics weren't important and most of the maps looked like the map i made.

take a look at these:
http://www.deadofnight.org/images/pangaea.jpg
http://discworld.atuin.net/external/atlas/zoom-klk.gif

and these are examples of maps with good graphics because they were usually made in ascii ;)
to be honest i actually pondered for a while on the idea of making the map only in ascii but i realised it's much harder than i thought :lol:
“In the beginning God said, the four-dimensional divergence of an antisymmetric, second rank tensor equals zero, and there was light, and it was good. And on the seventh day he rested.”- Michio Kaku
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Re: RPG Map - V6-page1&2

Postby DiM on Sat Oct 04, 2008 10:46 am

V7.
font changed all over the map
changed map name to Age of Quests (temporary until a better alternative is found)

Click image to enlarge.
image



i need feedback on the gameplay. anything from the value of neutrals, bonuses and placement of bonus terits on the map.
graphics can wait but don't be shy to post graphic comments also.
Last edited by DiM on Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
“In the beginning God said, the four-dimensional divergence of an antisymmetric, second rank tensor equals zero, and there was light, and it was good. And on the seventh day he rested.”- Michio Kaku
Image
User avatar
Major DiM
 
Posts: 10554
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:20 pm
Location: making maps for scooby snacks
Medals: 45
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (2)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1)
Cross-Map Achievement (2) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (4) General Achievement (4) Map Contribution (10)
Tournament Contribution (4) General Contribution (3)

Re: Age of Quests - V7-page1&3

Postby MrBenn on Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:55 pm

This map is ready to start moving along the development chain...

[Advanced Draft]
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PB: 2661 | He's blue... If he were green he would die | No mod would be stupid enough to do that
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