[Abandoned] - Goblin Tribes

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Re: Goblin Tribes[D]v14 pg1&9 Aug13 finalizing gameplay

Postby Danyael on Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:37 pm

squishyg wrote:The small legend is a little hard to read, but if anyone has trouble, they can just click "larger map", right?

:lol:

yes the small map legend is hard to read
"same type connect" in the gate legend is pretty hard to read still i did make it a little bigger but not yet big enough
same goes with the text under chiefs
and the evil mine icon is pretty much impossible to tell what it represents
i will improve all of these(may use different font if unable to size this one right
are those the only culprits ?

and yes logically thats what i would do is to just look at the large to know what i can read
but as we all know not everyone is logical and new players may not know of being able to change the map size
So i need to make the small as 100% legible as possible so nothing will be unclear

but yah if you can't read it just look at the large :lol:

new page map bump
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D]v14 pg1&9 Aug13 finalizing gameplay

Postby iancanton on Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:38 am

Danyael wrote:So i need to make the small as 100% legible as possible so nothing will be unclear

making the small map slightly taller will solve the text problem. this will let u either make the bonus legend bigger or move it to a bar at the bottom that isn't part of the map graphics (as in eastern hemisphere). incidentally, u've misspelled their as thier on both maps.

to my eyes, the colours of the blood regions, skull regions and gates are very similar. from the symbols, we can immediately tell that the blood and skull regions are part of different bonuses. however, using the brown fang colour for the gates will help to distinguish them at first glance from bloods and skulls, since the gates do not border any fang regions.

with the addition of the second mushroom path, the bloods are slightly more difficult to hold than the skulls, so give a +5 bonus, instead of +4, to the bloods. this bonus change will make only a small difference (if any) to most games, so i am happy to stamp this map for gameplay in advance.

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ian. :)
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D]v14 pg1&9 Aug13 finalizing gameplay

Postby squishyg on Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:04 pm

Yay! Congrats Danyael!!! Can't wait to play!
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v14 pg1&9 Aug13

Postby Danyael on Sun Aug 16, 2009 6:52 pm

iancanton wrote:
Danyael wrote:So i need to make the small as 100% legible as possible so nothing will be unclear

making the small map slightly taller will solve the text problem. this will let u either make the bonus legend bigger or move it to a bar at the bottom that isn't part of the map graphics (as in eastern hemisphere). incidentally, u've misspelled their as thier on both maps.

to my eyes, the colours of the blood regions, skull regions and gates are very similar. from the symbols, we can immediately tell that the blood and skull regions are part of different bonuses. however, using the brown fang colour for the gates will help to distinguish them at first glance from bloods and skulls, since the gates do not border any fang regions.

with the addition of the second mushroom path, the bloods are slightly more difficult to hold than the skulls, so give a +5 bonus, instead of +4, to the bloods. this bonus change will make only a small difference (if any) to most games, so i am happy to stamp this map for gameplay in advance.

Image

ian. :)

Thank you very much ian
I'll make it taller that will clear up a lot of room. Damn dyslexia I'll fix the their good catch.
all this time i thought the fangs were red I'll see about using the fang colour on the gate but I'll also try a few different idea to make it stand out more from the other land colours
the adjustment to the bloods makes perfect sense will do
if i get the chance all changes will be done next update hopefully Monday evening after work but for sure Tuesday
once again thanks for the stamp!!!

squishyg wrote:Yay! Congrats Danyael!!! Can't wait to play!

i can almost smell the muds im so excited graphic and xml to go

UPDATED TO DO
chief names and text still working on good setup
large map graphics
fix fuzz around legend text
fix weird straight line in legend in tribes
small map graphics
make taller and improve spacing
work on better font format for "regions"
many other things
Gameplay *give a +5 bonus, instead of +4, to the bloods.
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v15 pg1&10 Aug18

Postby Danyael on Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:08 pm

quick update
Version 15 large map
Click image to enlarge.
image

Changes
fixed fuzz on legend and spelling error
fixed perfect line in the legend
changed vivid light colour overlay on zip and zap
upped bloods to +5

small update will be ready on thursday
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v15 pg1&10 Aug20 Small legibility

Postby Danyael on Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:50 pm

Version 15 small map
i have increased the height by 30 pixels scaling the top and clone and bandageing the bottom
this as allowed me too increase the legend quite a bit
is it more legible? should it be increased more
moved around region icons and names as well increased the text size of the name their is a few that still need tweaking but i think this will work great and save time from switching the font type
I have moved the one way tree down to the bottom right and blacking out the background to make it more noticeable
as well with the added space the mythos now fits nicely but i noticed "fungi" has a shadow on it i will fix this
Click image to enlarge.
image

I have also noticed that the colour change doesn't stand out as much on zip and zap as it does with the big or is that just my colourblindness screwing with me

anyways
TO DO
I'm going to make a shot of both maps with different army number colours to make sure they all look ok
fix mythos as stated
tweak names and symbol sizes
tweak any legibility concerns
other minor things
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v15 pg1&10 Aug20 Small legibility

Postby sinctheassasin on Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:36 am

Hey, congrats on the second stamp, i wish conquer crater had one of those, it's our fifth month in the draft room ;)

Anyway, looks great to me. You might want to look at and post on different maps in here as well as the draft room to see what people are looking for in terms of tweaking graphics....

Just in case 8-)
Woop Woop, i love conquer club, why'd i leave for a year?
Who LIkes finishing what they started? :D
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v15 pg1&10 Aug20 Small legibility

Postby Danyael on Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:50 am

sinctheassasin wrote:Hey, congrats on the second stamp, i wish conquer crater had one of those, it's our fifth month in the draft room ;)

Anyway, looks great to me. You might want to look at and post on different maps in here as well as the draft room to see what people are looking for in terms of tweaking graphics....

Just in case 8-)


thanks
and please don't complaint about your stalled map in another persons topic
it will not help you out

*I'll try and point you in the right direction read what i wrote and follow it carefully then you might not be stalled
next time you will be foed

*see your map topic
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v15 pg1&10 Aug20 Small legibility

Postby RedBaron0 on Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:01 am

Looking pretty good kiddo, couple little things:

I think the edges of the map are too dark, especially around the 2 chiefs, mudd and blood. Your numbers look good, and will fit into their territories well, check the colors of the armies... which I see is on your list. I'm not sure, but I'm not sure exactly how the numbers get written on the image whether they get centered over the coordinates or if it starts at the left edge of the coordinates. That's probably for down the road, but it'll affect where you place army circles. Last thing, the text looks very readable in the territories, but looks squashed. Specifically the "F's" in most words you can figure out are "F's" but look more like an uppercase gamma in most cases.

Simple things there, shouldn't be to long before you get that next stamp!
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v15 pg1&10 Aug20 Small legibility

Postby squishyg on Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:38 pm

Baron has a point about the edges. The area around blood chief is particularly dark, now that i take a second look. The text doesn't bother me though, I like how rounded it is, which is probably what gives it a slight squashed look.

I like your mountains more every time I look at the map.
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v15 pg1&10 Aug20 Small legibility

Postby Danyael on Sat Aug 22, 2009 7:57 pm

its been awhile since i've been called kiddo
thanks for the comments and suggestions
Today while at work i was showing off my map to a co worker and on the old computer i used
the map was super dark it was mainly a monitor adjust to bring it almost to what i see on my computer
But its true around the mud and blood chief its very gloomy and sinisterly dark
i kinda like it but i will try out a few different thing to brighten up those sides
but i might just end up re tweaking the jpeg setting a higher overall brightness
which in turn may pop out even more details

as i do not want it to bright taking away from the overall forest of faces background
with kinda sets the mood if you know what i mean ;)

but yes it will be brighter

As for the F in this may and may not cause problems on the large in my option they are distinguishable as Fs but on the small is a different story
squishyg is right that the roundness is what causes the squished look but for the small i'll try a vertical scale 1 or two notches to improve the F

squishyg wrote:I like your mountains more every time I look at the map.

thanks again squishyg
yes there are so many small details in there a 1 pixel smudge brush is what i used to get the neat look it took a long time to perfect but hell it was worth it

thanks again squishyg and baron-o ;)
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v15 10 sept 2 is that bright enough

Postby Danyael on Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:46 pm

Click image to enlarge.
image

i have been damn busy working but no work this week end :)
I'll have v16 ready large and small this week end but i need no know
is this bright enough around the blood chief and mud chief
if so i got some major blending todo mainly
see 1, 2, 3
and i need to fix up a few other things small stuff and where 4. points to i'm going to darken this up slightly so it looks more like the other inner forestry areas
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v15 pg10 sept 2 is that bright enough

Postby squishyg on Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:15 pm

Blood and Mud are bright enough for me. Fangy is getting a little too bright now... His background looks like it's glowing. Was he bitten by a radioactive spider? ;)
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v15 pg10 sept 2 is that bright enough

Postby captainwalrus on Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:29 am

squishyg wrote:Blood and Mud are bright enough for me. Fangy is getting a little too bright now... His background looks like it's glowing. Was he bitten by a radioactive spider? ;)

Yeah, I agree. I have not really said much about this map, but I have poked my head in here a bit every now and then, and I like it a lot. The Fang guy does look a little bight but on a whole it is good.
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v15 pg10 sept 2 is that bright enough

Postby jpcloet on Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:43 am

Really great work. I too have been in an out of this map thread.

Quick text suggestion, can you move the Skivee text up a little off his head?
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v16 pg11 sept8 Final Large? Smallproblems

Postby Danyael on Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:29 pm

So after many busy days and I apologize about the delay
Version 16
Click image to enlarge.
image

Changes
Brighten up the background so its not as dark around Moodoog and Billeh.
Expanded the faces around the title
Moved Skivee's name off his head and downsized him slighty (Thank you JP know you can see his eye brows lol)
Fixed alot of small pixels and such

I'm about 100% happy with the large.
I've fiddled with the F but i really enjoy how it looks and I do not believe people will confuse it with a different letter(at least on large)
my only concern is the chief name combo. So I'll try some other things out as well as work on any nitpick you my may have(concerning legend names and things of those nature

The small on the other hand i had to start over which caused some of the delays
Click image to enlarge.
image

so it was pretty much 1 step forward 2 steps back
Small Issues
Since i redid it i'm not as happy with the streching on some parts of land(Zoop for one)
I'm planning on doing it over again but i doing the small over a third time(and soon a forth).
I have figured out a way to make it taller and give my self even more room on the territs

That said I believe the large is on its final version(besides your nitpicks, any suggestion you may have and the chief name fiddling. The small will be ready to finalize as well soon.

TO DO
Large:
your nitpicks *no major overhauls*
and playing around with chief names(I would greatly enjoy ideas)
Small:
redo map so land is not as distorted and give more territ space(should have that done thursday)
make a colour army numbers for small for your viewing pleasure

Now that i mention it here is the coloured numbers for large I personally see no issue.
Do you?
(i know there aren't perfectly aligned #-o )
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v16 pg11 sept8 Final Large? Smallproblems

Postby porkenbeans on Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:27 pm

I really like the cartoon style. Your characters are very cool. Maybe you would consider brightening it up just bit ?
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Last edited by porkenbeans on Sat Sep 12, 2009 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v16 pg11 sept8 Final Large? Smallproblems

Postby Danyael on Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:15 am

Pork don't waste your time you have been foed
the last update is right above you and yet you suggest a change to the previous version
(fail)
I Don't need your polish it seems to wreck more maps then most
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v16 pg11 sept8 Final Large? Smallproblems

Postby porkenbeans on Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:32 am

Danyael wrote:Pork don't waste your time you have been foed
the last update is right above you and yet you suggest a change to the previous version
(fail)
I Don't need your polish it seems to wreck more maps then most
WTF ?
I can't understand your English very well. In any case, good luck with your map.
But I do have to disagree with your assertion about my "polish". You should be so lucky to receive any pork polish. lofl. :lol:
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v16 pg11 sept8 Final Large? Smallproblems

Postby squishyg on Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:11 am

Play nicely boys...

The troop numbers look great to me!

I'm not in love with the chief names. There's something off about them. When attacking, would it say "Billeh" or "Billeh-Chief"? The names right now don't really distinguish from the other territories.
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v16 pg11 sept8 Final Large? Smallproblems

Postby SuicidalSnowman on Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:42 am

porkenbeans wrote:
Danyael wrote:Pork don't waste your time you have been foed
the last update is right above you and yet you suggest a change to the previous version
(fail)
I Don't need your polish it seems to wreck more maps then most
WTF ?
I can't understand your English very well. In any case, good luck with your map.
But I do have to disagree with your assertion about my "polish". You should be so lucky to receive any pork polish. lofl. :lol:



I'm a little late to the party, and I don't know if you guys have some past history and this is maybe a troll post, but I agree that the lighter version is easier to see or read.


Otherwise though, I am really impressed with the graphics on this map!
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v16 pg11 sept8 Final Large? Smallproblems

Postby Danyael on Sat Sep 12, 2009 1:07 pm

i agree squishyg I'm not a big fan of the font for the chiefs and its look
My ideas
in the xml Will have it
Billeh Blood Chief
But there is otherways it could work
Billeh Bloods
Blood Chief Billeh
Billeh (Chief)
Billeh (blood Chief)
and so on and so forth. any you would prefer or that work best
I could Just have the Chiefs name on the map(different font?!) and in the xml it will have the Blood Chief Billleh
As i did in a previous does the title font look better as the chief font. If i use the title font(lowercase) I'll just have the Chiefs' Name on the map and one of the ^ Examples
in the xml if that makes sense

SuicidalSnowman wrote:
I'm a little late to the party, and I don't know if you guys have some past history and this is maybe a troll post, but I agree that the lighter version is easier to see or read.


Otherwise though, I am really impressed with the graphics on this map!

there is no reason to quote his flame baiting and trolling
He has no idea what he is talking about does not understand mood or atmosphere
as the mythos goes "Deep within the Forest of Faces" not "close to the sun goblins have there fun"
the map yes is dark on a proper computer monitor properly set it is perfectly legible and there is proper lighting
he posted and edited on version that he copied and saved in his own photo bucket account
Probably edited it there too #-o
as well look at the previous update and the question i posed and then he wait till my next update to post like i didn't even work on brightening it up
and post a overly bright look and a darker look which causes confusion to people that reads the topic for the first time

I don't want to give this troll any attention due to the fact He's a flame baiting Troll and i don't have the easiest time biting my tongue

As i'm almost off topic
Thanks for the compliments on the map i hope you understand that it supposed to be a spooky map and upping the Brightness enough to distort it ruins the atmosphere of it
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v16 pg11 sept8 Final Large? Smallproblems

Postby porkenbeans on Sat Sep 12, 2009 4:13 pm

"I really like the cartoon style. Your characters are very cool. Maybe you would consider brightening it up just bit ?"Gotta say I was quit puzzled by Dans attitude. I said nothing in the way of a flame or bait. On the contrary, I like his map, and even went the extra step by illustrating a suggestion for him. And yes, I did just take it to photobucket to quickly make fine adjustments to the settings. You must know that all images must be hosted on a site like photobucket to be able to upload them here.
Like I said, I WAS puzzled until I did A little searching to see just where dan must have gotten miffed with me. I found it, and it is a crack up. The 4 posts beginning here says it all.
viewtopic.php?f=64&t=68322&start=30#p2161802
I wish you luck in your future map making quests. Your style is unique, and with the help of those experienced map makers here at CC, that are willing to help, ...You just might be able to quench a few. ;)
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v16 pg11 sept8 Final Large? Smallproblems

Postby SuicidalSnowman on Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:00 pm

Thanks porkenbeans, I enjoyed that little bit of context.

As for the map itself, I am just offering my commentary as a player. I think the map has beautiful graphics, but I doubt I will play very many games on it. When playing, I don't want to have to strain to figure out where boundaries are or how bonuses work, or to read the text.

While I don't really care who takes credit for it, the lightened example is, for me, much easier to read.

Some examples where I am struggling with the current version are the bonus descriptions in the top right, the poem in the bottom left, territories myz, mek, boo, booger, bug, fungi, sqk, skizz, and socket, among others. I find myself having to lean closer to my monitor to fully get an idea of what is going on, where the borders are, etc.

I am not skilled in computer graphics and illustration myself, however as a practical lay person who enjoy CC games, the lighter version demonstrated is MUCH easier to read. To me, it also still manages to capture much of the atmosphere.

Also, my laptop automatically adjusts the screen brightness for optimal conditions. Even then, with scaling through all the options, I still find the dark version unnecessarily hard to read.



I also think that in today's lexicon, you might change the names of Skank and Skizz to something with a little less adult connotations.

I DO think the naming is otherwise very intuitive.

Also, you might want to make the legend for the one way attacks a little bit clearer. Perhaps rotate the graphic in the legend to show that the arrow is facing the same direction as the leaf.
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v16 pg11 sept8 Final Large? Smallproblems

Postby Danyael on Sat Sep 12, 2009 7:03 pm

SuicidalSnowman wrote:As for the map itself, I am just offering my commentary as a player. I think the map has beautiful graphics, but I doubt I will play very many games on it. When playing, I don't want to have to strain to figure out where boundaries are or how bonuses work, or to read the text.

While I don't really care who takes credit for it, the lightened example is, for me, much easier to read.

I very much appreciate your comments
I completely agree that having to be close up to the screen to have to read things is a problem
not being able to read important information such are the mythos which contains important info on one way secrets
I don't use the same computer for internet that i do my adobe. The one i use is 10 year old computer monitor the map itself is very dark and lot darker then on the laptop.
I can still read everything perfectly but since i've spend so much time looking at the map i don't notice things in the same light as a fresh viewer. I understand that Brightness is an issue but in no way is it for the overall map
Only key spots as you've stated below and is 100% more helpful of a suggestion than just screwing with the flattened image causing everything to be out of whack and causing more issues in the long run so as you are more helpful in pointing out the issues lets address and fix the issues
Some examples where I am struggling with the current version are the bonus descriptions in the top right, the poem in the bottom left, territories myz, mek, boo, booger, bug, fungi, sqk, skizz, and socket, among others. I find myself having to lean closer to my monitor to fully get an idea of what is going on, where the borders are, etc.

just in case you are not looking at the most up to date image
Version 16
Click image to enlarge.
image

First off the poem
Yes it actual is harder to read since i did the adjust in the background and I noticed that its layer and font is not set to what it should be will work on its clarity
In a previous version i blacked out the background to improve the clarity but I must of erased that layer with out noticing i will work on improving it so its clear what it say
But i apologize you must at least read it once its important knowledge ;) (i hate reading too)
Now lets address the territs
Myz and Mek are the only ones I'm puzzle with. Do you Struggle to see the territ names or borders?
Has for The Territs around Zoom these are very dark compared to most of the map
I think some of the problem is the darkness around the impassable forest area(its casted shadow) mainly under it and then having the font so close to it make the names a little harder to make out as boo and bug have extra grit on the land i think if i make its opacity less this will improve its clarity ten fold
Same thing was added to booger blok and bud there fore I'll tweek the grit there too
Fungi I think the name is the only thing that is tough to see this is because the hobhouse's shadow is overlapping it This is cause from the house being on a higher layer then the name easy layer move will fix this thanks for pointy that one out as it was a step I overlooked
I hope these are what Causes the issues with the overall darkness in theses areas
I believe that all of the borders are prominent enough to see the connections
If layed back 3-4 feet from the moniter they aren't as easy to tell but when in a forest your not familiar with you can get lost and deeper you get harder it is too see where to go so a closer look is needed to find the right path I like that about this map
I hope that makes sense as well remeber Goblins are tricky and they are are tricky bunch ;)

As for the legend I'll make the font colour a touch more of a true red
As i am very colour blind I have an easier time seeing the true colours on black hen on white
thus it might not be a true red and this making it darker or harder to read for people with perfect eyes so i'll adjust its colour better hopefully improving the legibility(once again as its important info)
Thank you for indicating the main problems as said this is helpful as some people posts are not. So i'll fix these little Problems and in the next update please let me Know if it is clearer
because I in the long run this will improve the map and still not throw off the overall feel

I am not skilled in computer graphics and illustration myself, however as a practical lay person who enjoy CC games, the lighter version demonstrated is MUCH easier to read. To me, it also still manages to capture much of the atmosphere.

Also, my laptop automatically adjusts the screen brightness for optimal conditions. Even then, with scaling through all the options, I still find the dark version unnecessarily hard to read.

No need to explain as a layman player of the game your comments are needed in the foundry
Because they are precise and helpful. Yes its a darker map and not everyone is into that and i have no problem in excepting this. I don't want it super bright but I do not want it to be unplayable due to this. Since I believe its not unplayable as is, minor tweaks in the areas mentioned will help out and improve your issues


I also think that in today's lexicon, you might change the names of Skank and Skizz to something with a little less adult connotations.

I DO think the naming is otherwise very intuitive.

Also, you might want to make the legend for the one way attacks a little bit clearer. Perhaps rotate the graphic in the legend to show that the arrow is facing the same direction as the leaf.

:lol: :roll:
As some English words have a Bad or dirty meaning it all depends on the persons interpretation not the actual word.
As Skank is mainly a term used to refer to a slut or hooker this is not the meaning i think of when skank is said
Its more along the line of the style of dancing ska fans refer to as Skankin
and this makes me think of black suited thin tie goblins skanking it up :lol:
and i don't even know what Skizz would refer too i thought i made it up
as i see why some people would have a problem i think they should just suck it up or grow up and stop having a dirty mind
I'll rotate the one way arrow but i think it demonstrates the direction properly
"one way from tree to leaf tip"
So i don't see how the rotation will improve anything but I'll give it a try
Thanks for your input keep an eye out the next update will address your concerns
P.S pork made a bright version and compared it to another edit of the same version making it darker then it was This causes confusion
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