[Abandoned] - Goblin Tribes

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Re: Goblin Tribes v7 June 6 update pg 1 & 5

Postby Danyael on Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:37 pm

squishyg wrote:The new chiefs look great. The legend is also much more readable. The lettering needs to be bigger below "Gates" and above "Chiefs". It could also stand to be just a bit bigger below "Chiefs" too, but that's me just being nitpicky.

I really like the fangs and the little mushrooms in Myz!

Thanks very much i resized them a bit let me know if they need to be bigger and don't worry nitpick away


Version 7
Click image to enlarge.
image

Changes
finished up new goblin chiefs
*might add more details
made new army marker for chiefs
*so easily distinguishable from reg army circles
moved around names and army circles
changed chief legend and gate legends
New bonus for chief
*is this wording okay does it make sense
HOLD CHIEF AND RECEIVE +1
FOR EVERY 3 OF THERE
TRIBAL TERRITORIES HELD

changed the chiefs to neutral starts of two instead of the gates
as for staring positions to stop lucky drop. What would be best?

To Do
fix spelling mistake in legend (just noticed it)Image
add in legend for secret fungi myz connection
impassables(will this be needed or is it obvious what is and is not passable)
and anything else ????

keep the support and comments coming all are very much appreciated
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Re: Goblin Tribes v7 June 6 update pg 1 & 5

Postby squishyg on Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:11 am

Lettering is very clear now and the bonuses you added make sense to me. Just change "there" to "their" and I think you're ready to take this to the next stage.
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Re: Goblin Tribes v8 June9 update pg 1 & 5

Postby Danyael on Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:32 pm

squishyg wrote:Lettering is very clear now and the bonuses you added make sense to me. Just change "there" to "their" and I think you're ready to take this to the next stage.


thanks for seeing the spelling error its now fixed and my fingers are crossed that i'll be moved to the next stage soon

Version 8
Click image to enlarge.
image

Changes
made skull chief a little smaller
added a little poem to explain the connection between fungi and myz
fixed spelling errors (added i in territories and changed there to their #-o )
To Do
refine skull and fang chiefs to look better(mainly change the outline to be same thickens as bloods and muds
and any other suggestions
keep the support and comments coming all are very much appreciated
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Re: Goblin Tribes v8 June 9 update pg 1 & 5

Postby dolomite13 on Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:49 pm

I have been watching the progress of this map. I have to say I love the concept quite a bit. I do have a few questions and comments.

- Do the goblin chiefs count as a territory of their tribe? For instance there are 5 bloods and a bonus of +1 for holding 3. If the chief counts that's a max of +2 for all bloods.

- The know you call out fungi in the poem specifically, however if you pit a single mushroom next to the hut it might be easier to see. The hut is quite dark.

- Units can get into the 3 or even 4 digit range in some games and they flow to the right out of the unit circles. It may be better to move some unit circles so that the armies don't overflow onto words making them hard to read. I have noticed this might happen in "shank" and maybe the "myz" units would overflow into "mek".

- A small nit pick... the mine gates seem a little hard to see on the map. If there was a light coming from inside the mine they might me more visible on the map. As it is now it is dark on dark and hard to see.

- Do the gates start neutral?

Great Job ... I am looking forward to playing this =)

--D
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Re: Goblin Tribes v8 June 9 update pg 1 & 5

Postby Danyael on Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:25 pm

dolomite13 wrote:I have been watching the progress of this map. I have to say I love the concept quite a bit. I do have a few questions and comments.

Thanks dolomite13
- Do the goblin chiefs count as a territory of their tribe? For instance there are 5 bloods and a bonus of +1 for holding 3. If the chief counts that's a max of +2 for all bloods.

i think i understand what you mean as it stands the chiefs don't count as a tribal territory ie 5 blood territory and one chief.
So you can hold just 3 of the tribal territs and receive +1 or you can hold a chief and three of the tribal territs and get in theory +2. So 1 for the tribe bonus and 1 for chief bonus if that makes sense this may not stay like this depending on other comments and when it comes to gameplay stamp
- The know you call out fungi in the poem specifically, however if you pit a single mushroom next to the hut it might be easier to see. The hut is quite dark.

yes it does blend in quite a bit putting mushroom or a torch will make it stick out more i'll try a few different things
do you think that the poem makes it clear enough that fungi connects to myz
- Units can get into the 3 or even 4 digit range in some games and they flow to the right out of the unit circles. It may be better to move some unit circles so that the armies don't overflow onto words making them hard to read. I have noticed this might happen in "shank" and maybe the "myz" units would overflow into "mek".

yes i agree since i use colour codes there is plenty of places army numbers might overlap with the three digit or even the mighty r888. This is not a major problem at this stage but i will work on it and have a version with the 888's on them becuase it will be an issue sooner then later
- A small nit pick... the mine gates seem a little hard to see on the map. If there was a light coming from inside the mine they might me more visible on the map. As it is now it is dark on dark and hard to see.

ah yes the mine entrance this has been quite the scourge i have tired so many different ways of lighting the inside so it beams out and lights up the territ correctly but it causes other layers to go all wonky
stay tuned I will get it eventually
- Do the gates start neutral?

at first they did(before the chiefs became separate territs
but now they do not i'm thinking maybe have starting positions set up were the 88 are now to stop easy drop bonus
even thou i would rather not have any and leave it up for luck but we will see
the only places that are a forsure neutral start are the chiefs
Great Job ... I am looking forward to playing this =)

--D

thanks once again dolomite
i'm excited to play this too
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Re: Goblin Tribes v8 June 9 update pg 1 & 5

Postby whitestazn88 on Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:14 am

hey, i'm here for the pre-foundry review.

I've gotta say, i'm not totally sure about this map going forward yet. It seems like an interesting concept, but is done is such a base manner that i'm not in the least bit interested to play it.

the graphics are funny and cartoony, i like these the way they are.

work on the gameplay, especially the bonuses i think, and this might be able to move on. but as of now, you need to develop that
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Re: Goblin Tribes v8 June 9 update pg 1 & 5

Postby Danyael on Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:15 pm

whitestazn88 wrote:hey, i'm here for the pre-foundry review.

I've gotta say, i'm not totally sure about this map going forward yet. It seems like an interesting concept, but is done is such a base manner that i'm not in the least bit interested to play it.

the graphics are funny and cartoony, i like these the way they are.

work on the gameplay, especially the bonuses i think, and this might be able to move on. but as of now, you need to develop that


i think i understand as i don't want it to be to complicated and want to keep the build your own bonus for the tribes
there is many different possiblities any thing that you would prefer to see changed or added
that would peak your interest
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Re: Goblin Tribes v8 June 9 update pg 1 & 5

Postby whitestazn88 on Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:40 pm

the problem with the current bonus structure, in my opinion, is that you might as well just have a regional bonus... because you need over half of the territories in each region already for the bonus structure you have. if you wanna have the build your own bonus thing, i'd suggest adding more territs. also, you don't have to say, own "fangs, blood, mud, etc". you could just color code your legend text and it would be understandable, as the backgrounds on your territs already look good, would be easily distinguishable.
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Re: Goblin Tribes v8 June 9 update pg 1 & 5

Postby Danyael on Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:52 pm

whitestazn88 wrote:the problem with the current bonus structure, in my opinion, is that you might as well just have a regional bonus... because you need over half of the territories in each region already for the bonus structure you have. if you wanna have the build your own bonus thing, i'd suggest adding more territs. also, you don't have to say, own "fangs, blood, mud, etc". you could just color code your legend text and it would be understandable, as the backgrounds on your territs already look good, would be easily distinguishable.


thats is understandable i could make i will make a hold all as well as the byob bonus as previously discussed i wanted to have the essence of Berlin 1961(the original and best byob imo) which i believe has less territs. I do have to say fangs blood mud skulls because i dont enjoy colour coding at all because of my colour blindness i really wanted a map that didn't depend on colours at all, if that makes sense... but i could make a colour code as well but it will be tough for me with out making it clash to much with the colours i used

thank you for responding and giving ideas to fix it
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Re: Goblin Tribes v8 more territs?

Postby Danyael on Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:05 pm

ok thinking whitestazn's sugg on even more territs. Would be a good idea but i think if i added more i should due 4 more and then i can make the gates neutral aswell stopping luck drops for those and keeping it more equal in a 1v1

some where to add them
of couse i added more to the muds and skulls
making fangs and bloods still behind from the start so
i have thought of the spots ill add
here is a quite pic of my thoughts of where to add these
sorry at no .psd available at moment wrong computer:)

over on the Bloods i have added 4 more there
-i'll add 20 pixels on the left of the image so its not as squished
-i have four spots just so you can see area i'll add it to
-i think the most south addition would be good making skq and bloz connect to the dark portal
as well as the additonal one added to bloz will connect with gate
-the north area i have added 3 purposed spots
- this will mean that bloods bonus will change due to size increase

for the fangs not sue if i should add or shouldn't
- i have added a couple new territs but i might just increase fungi to make it more prominent as suggested by dolomite
- and then add a route between fungi and on of the new added area in the bloods

See poll
so What should i do
Just add four territs to bloods and add none to fangs but increase size of fungi adding connection
or
add two in fangs and only two in bloods

or any other thoughts?

other little changes to note
look at army numbers ok so far?
added light to mine is this better?
Click image to enlarge.
image
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Re: Goblin Tribes v8 June 9 update pg 1 & 5

Postby LED ZEPPELINER on Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:09 pm

All of your goblins relate to their land, except the Mud Goblin. I just think that you should make him resemble its area better
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Re: Goblin Tribes v8 poll more territs? pg 1 & 5

Postby Danyael on Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:19 pm

LED ZEPPELINER wrote:All of your goblins relate to their land, except the Mud Goblin. I just think that you should make him resemble its area better


yes i'm adding more mud there is some around his feet but almost impossible to see
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Re: Goblin Tribes v8 poll more territs? pg 1 & 5

Postby TaCktiX on Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:52 pm

Since we're talking about gameplay pretty heavily already, and because the Drafts team considers this map ready for the Main, I bestow upon Goblin Tribes the Drafts stamp.

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Re: Goblin Tribes v8 poll more territs? pg 1 & 5

Postby squishyg on Sun Jun 14, 2009 8:30 pm

Woo hoo! Congrats on your stamp!

p.s. I voted for 2 in fangs and 2 in bloods. I think fangs has to have more territories or it become a real easy way to gain a small bonus in a game where the other "continents" have a lot of territories.
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Re: Goblin Tribes v8 poll more territs? pg 1 & 5

Postby iancanton on Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:13 am

moved into the foundry proper.

ian. :)
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Re: Goblin Tribes v8 poll more territs? pg 1 & 5

Postby Danyael on Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:16 am

TaCktiX wrote:Since we're talking about gameplay pretty heavily already, and because the Drafts team considers this map ready for the Main, I bestow upon Goblin Tribes the Drafts stamp.

Image


:o :P what a great thing to see after working hard all weekend
thank you TaCktiX and the drafts team

squishyg wrote:Woo hoo! Congrats on your stamp!


Woo hoo! indeed
i might make an image for both options and re poll so its easier to compare but we'll see

iancanton wrote:moved into the foundry proper.

ian. :)

thanks iancanton
i guess theres one thing to add to this topic put Some D's on it

and thank you to everyone once again i'll have a new update out this week
Last edited by Danyael on Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D] v8 poll more territs? pg 1 & 5

Postby Orangicus on Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:06 am

I voted Other.

with this particular map, I'd like to see...

Myz and Mek as one territory.
Scab and Skank as one.
Mudbutt and Morguk as one.

Expansion in bloods at least (maybe fangs) - way too small.

Connect Scork, Blob and evil mine.
connect Flopz and Fungi.

Move the bone king somewhere else. Too easily taken; Scab area looks nice.

Drop the gate bonuses to individual; hold one gate +2

That's all my input! Just what I would do, don't take it personally!

=D>
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D] v8 poll more territs? pg 1 & 5

Postby Danyael on Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:52 pm

thanks for your input Orangicus

with this particular map, I'd like to see...

Myz and Mek as one territory.
Scab and Skank as one.
Mudbutt and Morguk as one.

unfortunately i will not merge any of these territs due to the fact this will bring the territ count back down after i add the four others
too 39 starting territs which is not as nice as 42

Expansion in bloods at least (maybe fangs) - way too small.

as the poll looks so far i'll add 4 to the bloods making it nine territs in total

Connect Scork, Blob and evil mine.
connect Flopz and Fungi.

even thou more connections will be good i think these are not ones i want to make

P.S. if a ca or mod sees this you can take down the poll that would be appreciated greatly then i can post my up date
two reasons the bloods will get another connection by the dark portal with the addition of the new territs
and with the fang connection i think it would make it allot easier to hold and expand if theres a connection between flopz and fungi

Move the bone king somewhere else. Too easily taken; Scab area looks nice.

i think having the skull chief on Squaat works best for functionality

Drop the gate bonuses to individual; hold one gate +2

do you mean hold evil mine get +2 or hold zap get +2
the gate bounus need more disscusion on what there value will be
but i'll keep your idea in mind

That's all my input! Just what I would do, don't take it personally!

=D>

thanks once again and nothing was taken personally i appreciate your feed back
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D] v8 poll more territs? pg 1 & 5

Postby iancanton on Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:12 pm

poll stopped immediately, as requested.

Poll Result wrote:Add more territs?
Poll runs till Sat 2009 Jun 20 02:17

add four territs to bloods and add none to fangs but increase size of fungi adding connection... 3... 60%
add two in fangs and only two in bloods... 1... 20%
other (see comment)... 1... 20%

Total votes : 5


in 2-player games, to stop player 1 from having 8 muds at the start and steamrollering player 2, have u considered making the tribe bonuses include the chief, in the style of supermax: prison riot? i like the chief bonuses, which keep the game interesting when there are 5 or more players.

ian. :)
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D] v8 poll more territs? pg 1 & 5

Postby Danyael on Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:12 pm

Version 8
Click image to enlarge.
image

Changes
-with the poll result have adding 4 more territs as a clear win i have gone ahead and done that
now that there is 50 territs in total the chiefs and gates will start as neutrals i have them as starting 2 but i think that i might change the chiefs
to be higher maybe 3 or 4 depending on how the game play evolves
-I have add a glow around the evil mine entrance and updated the look in the legend
-updated bonus for bloods now its hold 5 for +3
-i slightly enlarged the hobgob hut on fungi. I tried enlarging fungi itself but decided against it because it made it way to cluttered and did not
look as nice
-added a "poo doo" to mud chief
-fixed the little mountain near zap up so it looks more natural
-added two one way arrows(see to do and discussion)
Things To Do
-Borders ??? see discussion
-continue working on hob goblin hut (might add torch or something)
-make one way arrows fit in with overall look
-work on background around new blood territs to remove pixelation and major inconsistencies
Disscusion Topics and thoughts
-first off borders are they consistent enough or should i redo them all?
Reason is i forgot to note in the psd what i did exactly to the borders last time (gauss blur amount)
and i just tried my best to match the new borders with the old ones.
if they are too inconsistent i will redo all of them again
-second off one way arrows as you can see i have added two one way arrows between bloods and fangs
I'm going to work on the look for these so they match the other all look of the map.
my reasoning behind the spots i chose for them is to make fangs land not nearly as easy to hold and build out of due to its lack of gate access
and hob gob house feature
Is there any where else you'd like to see one way arrows? Any ideas or suggestions on how they should look?
-thirdly Gameplay there has been a few suggestions on to improving this. As i do want to keep the byob style it does need improvements
i mainly play 1v1 and i understand concerns of lopsidedness that may take place which is why i want the chiefs and gates to start neutral to stop
easy drops but iancanton brings up a great point

iancanton wrote:
in 2-player games, to stop player 1 from having 8 muds at the start and steamrollering player 2, have u considered making the tribe bonuses include the chief, in the style of supermax: prison riot? i like the chief bonuses, which keep the game interesting when there are 5 or more players.

ian. :)


-i agree that being steamrolled sucks as this has happened to many of use at one point or another by people getting lucky drops i know i have
dropped the bonus in russia area on the berlin 1961 map a few times (and i always went second but one time the other player didn't see that i
had 8 there so the steamrolling started and ended the match swiftly)
so what todo i've looked at supermax: prison riot and that got the gears going.
With having the chiefs start neutral and having them needed to get the bonus is one way of fixing this.
I wonder what the chance of a good drop would be and i will look into this farther and make changes as seen fit...
More ideas on this would be appreciated.
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D] v9 pg 1 & 6 june19

Postby targetman377 on Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:30 pm

i dont know if you want to do this but the teritory in the middle sakz i think that should be in the zoom, zoop so all 3 can attack each other. i think it would bring a new challange to the game play and then if it started nuetal it might be fairer in the drop. but if you dont like it you do not have to do it
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D] v9 pg 1 & 6 june19

Postby Danyael on Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:54 pm

targetman377 wrote:i dont know if you want to do this but the teritory in the middle sakz i think that should be in the zoom, zoop so all 3 can attack each other. i think it would bring a new challange to the game play and then if it started nuetal it might be fairer in the drop. but if you dont like it you do not have to do it


Image

Well I played around to see what it would look like.
With it being right in the middle it clutters things up to much.
As well if it is set neutral that would be used as a shield too easily.

but i could always have another dark gate if i could find a perfect spot
If people want a third gate but i think there is enough movement between the gates as is
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D] v9 pg 1 & 6 june19

Postby targetman377 on Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:41 am

Danyael wrote:
targetman377 wrote:i dont know if you want to do this but the teritory in the middle sakz i think that should be in the zoom, zoop so all 3 can attack each other. i think it would bring a new challange to the game play and then if it started nuetal it might be fairer in the drop. but if you dont like it you do not have to do it


Image

Well I played around to see what it would look like.
With it being right in the middle it clutters things up to much.
As well if it is set neutral that would be used as a shield too easily.

but i could always have another dark gate if i could find a perfect spot
If people want a third gate but i think there is enough movement between the gates as is



i see what you mean about that people using that as a defense. i do like the map though keep up the good work
VOTE AUTO/TARGET in 12
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D] v9 pg 1 & 6 june19

Postby squishyg on Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:37 am

What if the Mud chief was standing in the mud? I think I'd like that better than the poop hat.

I think the mines are still too hard to see. I've been participating in this thread pretty regularly, and I had to spend a few minutes looking for the mines even after you put a glow around them (confession-I didn't even notice them until you mentioned you added a glow). They look good, just are hard to find. I like the little train tracks.

Your mountains look really good too.
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Goblin Tribes[D] v9 pg 1 & 6 june22 improved Bonus Structure

Postby Danyael on Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:02 am

targetman377 wrote:i see what you mean about that people using that as a defense. i do like the map though keep up the good work

thanks
squishyg wrote:What if the Mud chief was standing in the mud? I think I'd like that better than the poop hat.

I think the mines are still too hard to see. I've been participating in this thread pretty regularly, and I had to spend a few minutes looking for the mines even after you put a glow around them (confession-I didn't even notice them until you mentioned you added a glow). They look good, just are hard to find. I like the little train tracks.

Your mountains look really good too.

thanks again
the poo doo might be to over to top should i remove it
i will increase the main mountains and will be able to increase opening allowing better detail so i can make more noticeable
but i think i figured out what i want to do with the bonuses
my main concern is this possible to code
Latest bonus structure Idea with picture examples
show

i`m sure it would be a lot to do but i think that would make best for game play
i hope its not to confusing
values are negotiable
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