[Abandoned] - Switzerland

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Re: SWITZERLAND v03 10sep

Postby RjBeals on Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:05 pm

ahh... http://www.fileden.com/ is blocked from work. They have blocked tons of sites recently - who knows, cc may be next :o
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Re: SWITZERLAND v03 10sep

Postby captainwalrus on Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:58 pm

This is really good, I like how, unlike Berlin 1961, 2 people can hold the bonus for one region.
Maybe more interesting text could add some more flavor to it.
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Re: SWITZERLAND v03 10sep

Postby thenobodies80 on Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:31 pm

No suggestions or critics? :-s

I think that the map is very well developed and i don't see big problems, it's time to focus on gameplay...

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Re: SWITZERLAND [D] v03 10sep

Postby pamoa on Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:09 am

Poll results
should the 22 German speakers cities be divided by 2 or 3 to determine the bonus ?
+7 each set of 11 - 6 votes / 50%
+5 each set of 7 - 6 votes / 50%

As it is 50/50 then its my opinion who takes the decision
it will be +5 each set of 7

and thanks for the stamp thenobodies80
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Re: SWITZERLAND [D] v04 19oct

Postby pamoa on Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:55 am

SWITZERLAND v04 new features : German cities bonus +5, red bg less bright, signature
any more gameplay comments?

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Re: SWITZERLAND [D] v04 19oct

Postby Evil DIMwit on Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:25 pm

Hmm. If you hold Zurich and Sankt Gallen, you can get a +5 bonus with only 7 territories and only 2 borders. That may be a bit of an unbalanced point.
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Re: SWITZERLAND [D] v04 19oct

Postby isaiah40 on Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:29 pm

Evil DIMwit wrote:Hmm. If you hold Zurich and Sankt Gallen, you can get a +5 bonus with only 7 territories and only 2 borders. That may be a bit of an unbalanced point.


I agree with Evil on this point.

There is one thing that could possibly be a problem when you do the small map. That is Stuttgart, Strasbourg, Geneve and Lyon may need to be moved up or down to make sure the army numbers don't cover those names up. Also you may want to consider moving Appenzell and Herisau down and away from each other for the same reason. The army numbers might cover up/blend in with each other including Sankt Gallen.

For now that is all I have. Keep up the good work!
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Re: SWITZERLAND [D] v04 19oct

Postby pamoa on Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:25 am

Evil DIMwit wrote:Hmm. If you hold Zurich and Sankt Gallen, you can get a +5 bonus with only 7 territories and only 2 borders. That may be a bit of an unbalanced point.

good point two solutions possible
either adding a road from Herisau to a mid point between Zug and Glarus
or increasing the bonus +7 each 11 territories


isaiah40 wrote:There is one thing that could possibly be a problem when you do the small map. That is Stuttgart, Strasbourg, Geneve and Lyon may need to be moved up or down to make sure the army numbers don't cover those names up. Also you may want to consider moving Appenzell and Herisau down and away from each other for the same reason. The army numbers might cover up/blend in with each other including Sankt Gallen.

I know I will have to make some small adjustments for the small map
but thanks for pointing it out
for the moment I'm concentrating on the gameplay
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Re: SWITZERLAND [D] v04 19oct

Postby a.sub on Sat Nov 21, 2009 7:58 pm

my main advice for now is to tone down the red, its blinding. and up the contrast on the white areas because you have a gorgeous texture, but its hidden because i am distracted by the red and its hard to see anyway.
show: example

maybe not as extreme as i have it here, but it gets the idea across
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Re: SWITZERLAND [D] v04 19oct

Postby cairnswk on Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:36 pm

a.sub wrote:my main advice for now is to tone down the red, its blinding. and up the contrast on the white areas because you have a gorgeous texture, but its hidden because i am distracted by the red and its hard to see anyway...
maybe not as extreme as i have it here, but it gets the idea across

pamoa, i kinda agree with a.sub on this one.
the red needs toning down (darkening) just a fraction, that way also the white glow on the texts on that red might make those words stand out a little more.
After that, i can't see why this shouldn't be on it's way to quench. It's been long enough in the field here....i beleive. :)
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Re: SWITZERLAND [D] v04 19oct

Postby the.killing.44 on Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:41 pm

The map is very nice, but the surrounding area is just … meh. There's nothing exciting. You have the most boring sans serif font, plainest color in its plainest form, and no decor. Find some sort of decorative font (Europe is such a great subject for nice fonts); get rid of your "CC Swiss map by pamoa" from the timeline (c'mon, really?); and find someway to make everything work cohesively (that means making the country labels fit in, toning down the red, etc.) and you'll be with a much better project. In its current form it looks like a white fill of Switzerland over a red background with some boring fonts and lines stuck on top of it.
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Re: SWITZERLAND [D] v05 22nov

Postby pamoa on Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:05 am

a Swiss map by a Swiss SWITZERLAND v05 new features : German cities bonus +7, red bg less bright, signature
Click image to enlarge.
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oh btw killing the plain boring font is called Helvetica
you can now see why I used it
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Re: SWITZERLAND [D] v05 22nov

Postby the.killing.44 on Sun Nov 22, 2009 1:23 pm

pamoa wrote:oh btw killing the plain boring font is called Helvetica
you can now see why I used it

Yes I can, but it doesn't mean it makes the map look better. Plus, how many people are going to recognize that's Helvetica?
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Re: SWITZERLAND [D] v05 22nov

Postby captainwalrus on Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:52 pm

Someone I know can recognize tons of fonts right away, he is crazy. Most people, however, are not like that, and until you said something, I don't really think anyone knew.


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Re: SWITZERLAND [D] v05 22nov

Postby ghirrindin on Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:06 pm

Quite a few people will notice that the font is Helvetica, actually. It's a Swiss invention and fits perfectly with the map. Go with it!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0847817/
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Re: SWITZERLAND [D] v05 22nov

Postby the.killing.44 on Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:07 pm

ghirrindin wrote:Quite a few people will notice that the font is Helvetica, actually. It's a Swiss invention and fits perfectly with the map. Go with it!

Out of 20,000, how many do you predict? Less than 100.
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Re: SWITZERLAND [D] v05 22nov

Postby ghirrindin on Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:21 pm

Do you really want to argue about numbers?

Look, the map depicts contemporary Switzerland, and I think Helvetica appropriately captures late twentieth/early twenty-first century Swiss aesthetics.
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Re: SWITZERLAND [D] v05 22nov

Postby the.killing.44 on Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:25 pm

ghirrindin wrote:Do you really want to argue about numbers?

Look, the map depicts contemporary Switzerland, and I think Helvetica appropriately captures late twentieth/early twenty-first century Swiss aesthetics.

And it looks boring as shit! The point is, if a huge majority of people don't recognize the font and what it means, it just looks boring. Using it for tert names? Fine. For every single aspect of the map? Just boring.
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Re: SWITZERLAND [D] v05 22nov

Postby ghirrindin on Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:43 pm

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on the matter then. I get what he's going for and appreciate it, and I don't think he should worry about a couple of people being bored by the font on the map.

Incidentally, this argument is quite humorous, especially considering the discussion that surrounded the last map of Switzerland by Kaplowitz. That map was ruthlessly attacked for not being Swiss enough. Here we have Pamoa's rendition with a Swiss font and Swiss national colors, and yet the foundry community ripped those elements apart.

Although, I will admit that the really bright red was hard on the eyes. ;)
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Re: SWITZERLAND [D] v05 22nov

Postby Evil DIMwit on Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:55 pm

The more I look at this map the more solid the gameplay seems. Time for a stamp, that's what I say.
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Re: SWITZERLAND [D] v05 22nov

Postby jefjef on Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:40 pm

Hi Pomoa!

Thought I'd stop and look real quick.

I have to wonder how this map would look with diff colors for the neighboring countries. Germ. France. Italy. Instead of just a kinda bland red.
This post was made by jefjef who should be on your ignore list.
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Re: SWITZERLAND [D] v05 22nov

Postby pamoa on Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:08 pm

jefjef wrote:Hi pamoa!
Thought I'd stop and look real quick.
I have to wonder how this map would look with diff colors for the neighbouring countries. Germ. France. Italy. Instead of just a kinda bland red.

thanks for dropping
the graphic concept is the Swiss flag white cross in a red square
so sorry but I'll stick to this
and I'm still waiting for my gameplay stamp :-s
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Re: SWITZERLAND [D] v05 22nov

Postby Incandenza on Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:55 am

So having looked thru the thread, I can't help but notice that no one's said anything about what, to me, seems like a large gameplay issue: the dead ends. I count 8, 9 if you include Geneve (which is behind Lausanne). That's a lot, tho solving the problem might be difficult (i.e. adding roads to resort towns, or having all foreign cities be able to attack each other, or something). It's not a deal-breaker, but it's worth talking about, since maps with a substantial percentage of dead-end terits have been generally considered a Bad Thing.
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Re: SWITZERLAND [D] v05 22nov

Postby pamoa on Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:35 am

Incandenza wrote:So having looked thru the thread, I can't help but notice that no one's said anything about what, to me, seems like a large gameplay issue: the dead ends. I count 8, 9 if you include Geneve (which is behind Lausanne). That's a lot, to solving the problem might be difficult (i.e. adding roads to resort towns, or having all foreign cities be able to attack each other, or something). It's not a deal-breaker, but it's worth talking about, since maps with a substantial percentage of dead-end terits have been generally considered a Bad Thing.

for me having all foreign cities connected is fine
it's only an instruction string in the legend
if you think it will help the gameplay making it more open
on the opposite adding roads make no sense for me
but maybe inventing some helicopter connection between touristic resorts
it may be an aerial connection theme:
    airplanes connects all foreign cities
    helicopters connects all touristic resorts
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Re: SWITZERLAND [D] v05 22nov

Postby Evil DIMwit on Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:19 pm

Incandenza wrote:So having looked thru the thread, I can't help but notice that no one's said anything about what, to me, seems like a large gameplay issue: the dead ends. I count 8, 9 if you include Geneve (which is behind Lausanne). That's a lot, tho solving the problem might be difficult (i.e. adding roads to resort towns, or having all foreign cities be able to attack each other, or something). It's not a deal-breaker, but it's worth talking about, since maps with a substantial percentage of dead-end terits have been generally considered a Bad Thing.

Really, shallow dead ends -- dead ends with a depth of one -- are all right. You can conquer them, not transfer any troops onto them, and move on from the territory they're attached to. That's not so bad, particularly in a map like this with collector-style gameplay. It's the deeper dead ends that disrupts a player from conquering on through. I only count two of those -- Lyon and Stuttgart. Resolve those as you might, but the other 'dead ends' are fine in my mind.
pamoa wrote:
    airplanes connects all foreign cities
    helicopters connects all touristic resorts

That changes gameplay quite a bit; it turns each set of collectible territories into a continent of sorts. It'd make the bonuses for external cities and resorts easier to take and harder to hold -- I think that's a negative effect.
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