looking for a student

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looking for a student

Postby silversun6 on Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:03 am

hey all,
not sure its the correct place for such post, so delete it or move if it isnt.

im looking for a low ranked student willing to improve. with preemium , and 99% or more turns taken.

what i have in mind is several games to get it started and if the chemistry good ,sky is the limit.

cheers,
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Re: looking for a student

Postby kuma32478 on Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:17 am

I would be interested
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Re: looking for a student

Postby Viceroy63 on Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:26 am

"a low ranked student willing to improve." Huh?

How low does the student have to go? :lol:

But seriously; I think that is admirable. I also desire to share what I know with others. To help others improve their game and pleasure. That is why I write.

When I don't feel too lazy that is. LOL.

I also try and be some what active in the strategy forums.
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Re: looking for a student

Postby silversun6 on Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:52 am

to Viceroy63 - i dont know if you were sarcastic, but my intentions are selfish , as the players i mainly play as teammates are majors and colonels and if we win in a simple double game we gain somewhere around 10 points and if we loose its about 30 , so to improve the score we need to win 4 out 5 game , and even than its not too much of a gain.

so the "low rank" should be somewhere around 1100 points .
also sorry i didnt write it in a first post , the player aslo need to be not in the clan currently - so sorry kuma. i would like to have the option to invite the player to join osa eventually.
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Re: looking for a student

Postby kuma32478 on Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:23 am

Or you could just join AQoH instead. =)
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Re: looking for a student

Postby Viceroy63 on Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:21 pm

silversun6 wrote:to Viceroy63 - i dont know if you were sarcastic, but my intentions are selfish , as the players i mainly play as teammates are majors and colonels and if we win in a simple double game we gain somewhere around 10 points and if we loose its about 30 , so to improve the score we need to win 4 out 5 game , and even than its not too much of a gain.

so the "low rank" should be somewhere around 1100 points .
also sorry i didnt write it in a first post , the player aslo need to be not in the clan currently - so sorry kuma. i would like to have the option to invite the player to join osa eventually.


I apologize for the bit of humor and I was not trying to be sarcastic. That is a very intriguing, and selfish idea. Perhaps if it works as a form of strategy for game play then others will soon pick up on it as well and we will soon see many top competitive teams composed of three high ranking players and one low ranking player. In such a speculative end however the strategy would then fail as the score would also end up the same regardless of the winner if teams fighting each other are composed of such foursomes.

In the meanwhile it would also leave that low ranking player as the "Odd Man Out." The sooner that his total score goes up beyond a certain number it would be time to retire him and find a new "LRP" (Low Ranking Player). While the LRP would come out of the adventure with considerable experience and learning, If his mental aptitude for learning is high, he would also eventually come to know the most important lesson of all. That of being used by the top dogs for his Low Rank.

I might interject here that as I understand it, the SoC was formed to prevent the advantages that HRP's (Higher Ranking Players) were taking of, of LRP's. No sooner would some one Join CC that they were played with for their score. Although this is a new angle it still seems like fishing or farming in a way. I could be wrong and this is just a thought.

And on the flip side, if the strategy proves successful then it would also create an industry for finding LRP's to replace the one's being retired. But again as mentioned before it the strategy does prove successful then it might lead to it's own downfall as everyone would be doing it and the advantage would then be lost and so even the industry for finding LRP's would also die. Not to mention that some top players may not enjoy the idea as they mostly like to keep it in-house. You know, the family that plays together, shares the score together.

In View of some HRP's wanting to play exclusively with HRP's, this tactic may even appear as "low down dirty in the shame?!" Unless it was previously agreed upon, then bringing in an LRP may just lead to some highly pissed off HRP's placing other HRP's on certain foes list. And that would certainly put an early end to that strategy as the players list becomes shorter perhaps even by word of mouth. I am not trying to dampen any spirits here, just attempting an evaluation of future venues of this plan.

There are two other points I would like to illustrate on the negatives of this plan. One; That finding LRP's willing to do as told rather than think and contribute may also pose a problem. So that while an LRP may go with it for the first time or so but then may decide not to be a puppet any longer and simply not play with the team in the next game or ever again. It is possible that some may just not enjoy the game no matter how much they are learning from the experience. Part of being in a team is being recognized for your idea contribution. To just be a play puppet may not promote very much enthusiasm.

Again, I am not saying that the LRP will become a play puppet but really, a HRP becomes an HRP through the experiences that he/she has had in the course of their career here on CC. A LRP does not really have anything to offer except score.

And Two; And probably the most important aspect of team games is the quality of the "Team Mind." The whole idea behind several minds playing together on the same team, is to produce a kind of awesome "Supermind." Just as two sets of eyes see more than just one then also four minds would think better than three minds and one LRP puppet. The four minds would then have a superior advantage leading to the win of the game unless the three HRP team are already incredible strategist such as "Mua," thank you very much (LOL), I don't see how the three minds can out produce four participating minds.

In other words, If I am playing with a team of four participating individuals against three HRP's and one LRP then I would simply break out the champagne early or maybe not too early but I would have it out and ready for the celebration as soon as the game was over. I would simply see that as a disadvantage to your team. If you look at minds like Horsepower, then surely 4 horsepower will always out perform 3. Unless there is either a break down in the four horse power team or the 3 horse power team are on steroids. LOL.

For the most part that idea of finding an LRP to gain the scoring advantage must also involve taking the risk that the LRP will do as told. The moment that he deviates from doing what he is told it would hurt the team in so many ways. An LRP may simply not realize this without being conditioned and that cost of conditioning must also play a role just as employee preparation and training is a cost covered and accepted by many industries. If the cost is worth it then so be it but if it is not, then why bother?

I Would think it simply better to just form a top notch team of thinkers and just go out and kick ass!
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Re: looking for a student

Postby dhallmeyer on Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:22 pm

Official SOC response:

We do train students in both team and singles play. We do not have a one-on-one mentoring program like what is described above. If you are seeking someone you can train, you may find them here, or perhaps by posting an ISO ad in the strategy section.

Personal thoughts:

More power to you. Many moons ago, when CC was young, wacicha had a similar concept and began tutoring players on his own. That concept has grown and morphed over time into what we have now. Send me a PM if there's any way I can help.
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Re: looking for a student

Postby macbone on Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:33 pm

This sounds like an awesome opportunity, silver. Yep, it's fine to post that here, and hopefully you'll have someone who will bite.
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Re: looking for a student

Postby Viceroy63 on Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:38 pm

Let me add that I do not think that this is a completely bad idea, only that it has some negative aspects to it. There are some positive aspects as well. For example it would give the LRP (Lower Ranking Player) an increase in score and rank. And making aware that your clan is accepting members is always a good offer to lay out there. I think Kuma is doing the same as are others who have their eye on finding new members for their clans in the SoC.

But if I understood correctly the purpose of the Original Post, It is to get a Low Ranking Player of about 1100 points to play in a quad game against Higher Ranking Players because that way when you guys win the points, it would be more, and if you lose, the points lost would also be less because it would be like just the average of the score system where the lower score always gets more from the higher score when the Lower score wins. That is an original idea. I think.

It's not a bad idea all the way around but let's be honest here; At what point does the lower score player ceases to be an asset to the team score wise? Once the Lower Ranking, Lower Score player, raises his score to the rest of the Quad team, What happens then? The way I see it, this is more like a short term deal than a mentoring program. Joining any clan is a learning experience but that is not the purpose of this post. Or is it?

At any rate if I can personally be of any service in mentoring to anyone, let me just say for the record that all you have to do is just ask me. Part of the reason why I write so much is not because I am some know it all, show off, because I am not. Everything I know about strategy, I learned or figured it out right here in the SoC. And yes in other forums as well. But I write because I sincerely desire to share what I know and understand with others. I think that the SoC Forums are an Excellent place to post any article of information and strategy to help others to learn and improve their games.

On this note I will add that the SoC Advisers are the best when it comes to mentoring. The SoC Program is efficient and accurate, teaching from a proven manual. They are not wasting their time because if the student does not want to participate then the student won't post in their training field and that's what it comes down to. The person who wants to learn will come to the mentor and ask for advise through the TF thread that they set up and not the mentor coming to the person who wants to learn. The same if they write them an E-mail or just simply bother to read one of my articles posted on the threads or participate in any of the thread discussions.

I just wanted to clarify that I was not beating up on the idea, only pointing out that there already exist better ways.
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Re: looking for a student

Postby macbone on Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:46 pm

Having played in a number of games with Silversun, I can attest to his skills. =)

There's also the Mentoring Program that is another way to give players training.

And don't be fooled by a low rank! There are many players with stripes who play extremely well.
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Re: looking for a student

Postby shadistic on Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:07 pm

Viceroy63 wrote:I might interject here that as I understand it, the SoC was formed to prevent the advantages that HRP's (Higher Ranking Players) were taking of, of LRP's. No sooner would some one Join CC that they were played with for their score. Although this is a new angle it still seems like fishing or farming in a way. I could be wrong and this is just a thought.


A player's score is kind of like a price in economics. It's the basis for transactions, and it means something, but what exactly it means isn't always well-defined. Most of the SoC's teaching involves getting players used to counter-intuitive settings that can be applied to a variety of situations.
As long as the student is learning instead of just being outmatched in an arena they're uncomfortable with, it's not farming. It's possible that the student's singles skills would lag behind those for team games for a little while, but that's not so much of a disadvantage. Also, the kind of people who take up offers like this tend to be players who show promise and learn more quickly than most.

In other words, If I am playing with a team of four participating individuals against three HRP's and one LRP then I would simply break out the champagne early or maybe not too early but I would have it out and ready for the celebration as soon as the game was over. I would simply see that as a disadvantage to your team. If you look at minds like Horsepower, then surely 4 horsepower will always out perform 3.


In the quote that begins this post, you assume that the student's score will shoot up, possibly to the point where it's mis-representative of the student's skill. In the quote above, you suggest that a LRP will drag his/her team down most of the time. These assertions can't both be right.
If you've played enough team games, you understand that if a weak teammate can take advice from a strong teammate, they can perform closer to the strong teammate's level. In any case, it's a risk that the OP is willing to take.

In the meanwhile it would also leave that low ranking player as the "Odd Man Out." The sooner that his total score goes up beyond a certain number it would be time to retire him and find a new "LRP" (Low Ranking Player). While the LRP would come out of the adventure with considerable experience and learning, If his mental aptitude for learning is high, he would also eventually come to know the most important lesson of all. That of being used by the top dogs for his Low Rank.


Let's crunch some numbers.
Silver's got a score of 3430, and is looking for someone around 1100 to play with.
The team's average score for doubles would be about 2300 (high-end estimate), as opposed to averaging around 3200 alongside officers.
Compare the point gains/losses versus a typical team (averaging around 2800), and versus a low-end team in score (averaging around 1500).
Default team against regular opponents: 17 for a win, 23 for a loss (must win 57% of time to break even)
Default team against low-rank opponents: 9 for a win, 43 for a loss (must win 83% of the time to break even)
Student team against regular opponents: 24 for a win, 16 for a loss (must win 40% of the time to break even)
Student team against low-rank opponents: 13 for a win, 31 for a loss (must win 70% of the time to break even)

Winning 40% of the time is a lot easier than winning 57% of the time. I'd wager this is even the case when you correct for your teammate's skill.

I'm not going to go into the math of how many games it would take for the student to rise up in rank, but put it this way.
As long as they play all their games with Silver, they'll get the exact same increase in points that he does. They can't go from 1100 to 2100 without Silver going from 3430 to 4430, effectively putting him in the top 5. Even a 300-point gain, which would give Silver a new high score, wouldn't alter the dynamics all that much.
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Re: looking for a student

Postby Viceroy63 on Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:18 pm

Interesting! Didn't see it like that. :)
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Re: looking for a student

Postby Suppurator on Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:16 pm

Have you found a candidate?
If not, I'd like to...errrrr....apply for the position.
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Re: looking for a student

Postby jsnyder748 on Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:20 am

A good example of this working would be how emmdizzle became conquerer. Emmdizzle played with cooks who would consistantly take their turns and would follow directions blindly. not much tutoring, but a very affective strategy to go up ranks.

what silver is doing though is better for both players. The low ranker will learn good strategy to use later when going up rank or applying for a clan. Emmdizzle didn't teach the cooks and was playing 8 person freestyle objective games (my specialty). I have tried this a few times, but never stuck with it.
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Re: looking for a student

Postby xerocco on Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:15 pm

I would be interested !
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