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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby thenobodies80 on Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:51 am

greenoaks wrote:
thenobodies80 wrote:
greenoaks wrote:someone recently wanted to run a tournament on maps where everyone started with 8 terits. i had to view each and every map to create a list. so for me i would like to see total terits and starting terits. maybe a yes/no for special features. if the map's name was a hyperlink it would be easy to flick to the map for an indepth look at the special gameplay


So a multi-selection page where you set some things and then the result is displayed as a list. So a sort of gamefinder page but about maps instead of games...
It was good to ask because I thought you wanted something different. :mrgreen:

Anyway, I need to make a couple of changes (or better add a couple of things) but it seems feasible.

actually i did want something different. with the other way i could hit the sort button for the relevant field's title and scroll down.

i don't mind which way, i was just pointing out how time consuming it currently is to get that info. i'm a spreadsheet guy so i understand a large table with the ability to sort alpha/numerical on the columns.

for home i'd create a spreadsheet with Map Name, Total Terits, Starting Terits for 1v1, 2 player, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. Special features. that's 10 columns. the first row has the titles and is scroll locked so no matter how far down i scroll i'll see the name of the column. the 2nd thing i'd do is create a macro button the exact size of the cell containing the heading Map Name which sits on top of that cell. when i push that button it will sort the table alphabetically by map name. similar buttons would sit on the other headings allowing the spreadsheet to be sorted by their respective columns.

it is fairly easy for me to do that but then its not accessable to anyone else and it doesn't have your awesome graphics - macro buttons are all grey.

as i said either way is good. whichever way you think adds the most functionality to the map gallery.


This can be done. It works a bit different than an excel spreadsheet but the final result could be similar.

greenoaks wrote:the other thing i thought could be in it would be a description of the map

maps like Classic, Germany, France, Middle East would be called Regular, Basic or some such name. other names could be Moderate, Complex.

i think that would be handy for TO's and players.


This a gray area. I mean, if it's simple to define a basic map, when it comes to moderate or complex is not so simple to create a tag system that fits for everyone. From a coding point of view it's just add so np, the issue is the criteria to use .... :-k

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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby greenoaks on Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:34 am

i thought i'd mention it because a maps gallery that contains information about a map might be a good place to go for information about whether a map is simple, risk-like or is chock full of winning and losing conditions, killer neutrals and decay. and if you were able to do so and and lack is serious about integrating your gallery into his site then .......... muhahaha O:)
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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby cairnswk on Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:46 am

thenobodies80 wrote:...
This a gray area. I mean, if it's simple to define a basic map, when it comes to moderate or complex is not so simple to create a tag system that fits for everyone. From a coding point of view it's just add so np, the issue is the criteria to use .... :-k

And that has always been a subjective challenge...there was great discussion some years back when Coleman and I were mods in the foundry, and yes the challenge was that everyone had differing views including mapmakers on what was moderate or complex.

A suggestion might be to have all "classic" maps with no frills xmls as "basic", and then two more groups defined by the xml types as fitting into the moderate or complex groups.
e.g. ranged attacked, one-way borders, starting positions bombardments etc as moderate
and somethings like killer neutrals, buildings, etc as complex

Just suggestions. :) There is a thread around somewhere that had this started by Coleman
viewtopic.php?f=127&t=36514&start=0
Hehe...there's some interesting topics discussed all the way back to 2007 -> is the foundry dying...seems like that one's been around forever and get rehashed every so often :) ...some as with map sizes. :)
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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby Ffraid on Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:24 am

cairnswk wrote:
thenobodies80 wrote:...
This a gray area. I mean, if it's simple to define a basic map, when it comes to moderate or complex is not so simple to create a tag system that fits for everyone. From a coding point of view it's just add so np, the issue is the criteria to use .... :-k

And that has always been a subjective challenge...there was great discussion some years back when Coleman and I were mods in the foundry, and yes the challenge was that everyone had differing views including mapmakers on what was moderate or complex.

A suggestion might be to have all "classic" maps with no frills xmls as "basic", and then two more groups defined by the xml types as fitting into the moderate or complex groups.
e.g. ranged attacked, one-way borders, starting positions bombardments etc as moderate
and somethings like killer neutrals, buildings, etc as complex

Well, if you want to avoid any subjectivity (thereby avoiding debate and, consequently, delay) you could just have two categories. Basic for no frills XML and everything else is not basic. "Not basic", obviously, not being a great name for the category but you get what I mean. While I don't think anyone would consider one-way borders "advanced", you're right, they're not absolutely no frills XML, which is a clear, objective, dividing line.

I don't really know, but I would imagine that the subjectivity of attempting to define what is merely moderate and what is complex is least a part of why there has never been any map categorization. And it sounds like a Gallery update is coming soon so, if you want any kind of category system in there, it may be best just to simplify for now. If, that is, you think that even a simple system is better than no system at all.
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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby greenoaks on Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:02 am

i like the idea of Regular/Basic or some other 'tag' that defines maps with no xml features whatsoever.

i would like to propose a list of xml features is made and those features are rated. something like decay might be a point whereas not holding a certain terit and being eliminated might be worth 3 and a killer neutral might be a 2. my basic reasoning is losing 1 on a terit (decay) is minor so 1 point, losing lots on a terit (killer neutral) is 2 points, losing the game is a major feature (losing condition) therefore 3 points. there could be additional points for multiple features of the same type such as 2 different ways to win (AYBABTU).

the xml features of a map can then be tallied and the map rated based on the overall score. rating of the maps could be done in 3 broad categories such as Basic/Moderate/Complex or more like school reports where you get a Basic+ (B+) so it is a basic map with some minor Decay but not enough to rate as a Moderate map.

is anyone interested in such a discussion?
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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby ender516 on Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:43 am

It would be nice to see all the feature tags that chipv had on his map database. Such a shame, all that information was there and now it's no longer available, except perhaps via the Wayback Machine (Internet archive).
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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby thenobodies80 on Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:28 pm

I have to discuss with lackattack a couple of things before to proceed further. I'll keep you all updated. ;)

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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby Ffraid on Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:56 pm

Oh, btw, if you're doing some sort of "click to sort" type of thing, I'm interested in the number of the map, so that we can sort oldest to newest or vice versa. E.g. Classic is #1, World 2.1 is #27, etc. I have no idea if anyone else is interested in that info or not, but if I am then there are probably others, and if it's just a matter of adding another sortable column.... :D

Normally, I hate asking people for stuff, but you did ask what we would like to see! :) On the other hand, if everyone else thinks it's a horrible idea, I won't be insulted or anything. I really appreciate all the work you've put into this valuable resource, nobodies.
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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby ender516 on Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:40 pm

Good news! There are Wayback Machine entries for the old Map and Mapmakers Database. This is the most recent:
http://web.archive.org/web/201006280043 ... ostia.com/
It may be incomplete (unfortunately, you cannot see the explanatory text for the tags used on the maps, and it only has 155 maps) but it shows a lot of information that would be useful if more easily available.
Some of that explanatory text might be recoverable from the forum topic that used to be around here concerning the Map and Mapmakers Database, but it seems to have been deleted or at least moved somewhere less obvious.
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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby thenobodies80 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:00 am

I'm aware about those data.
For now guys be patient, a bit of time is needed to do some things and discuss with the turtle.

In the meawhile I've changed the link in the first post and into the gallery as well, so now you can see an improved version of the gallery with some work I did in the past month.

In case you are lazy guys here the link for the Maps Gallery :mrgreen:

There're more info (thanks for the suggestions given) since the first launch and a lighter structure for those who don't have a powerful internet connections.

Enjoy this for now, and stay tuned. More good news soon...;)

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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby cairnswk on Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:16 pm

Rail Asia in the Gallery still has BETA ribbon on it, as does Salem's Switch

Waterloo Images need updating, as does Rail Europe.

Map 32: Classic Cities: Sydney
All cairnswk
Territories 72
Starting Neutrals 6
Gameplay: Starting Neutrals, Impassables, Ranged attacks
Description: One of Classic Cities maps, Sydney is a sister map for Sydney Metro with similar freeway design as impassable. Based on classic style gameplay, it has well-designed gameplay that goes to lengthy games and should be an easy map for the novice. It features the greater regions of Sydney from the Blue Mountains to both northern and southern National Parks on the coast.
2P 22
3P 22
4P 16
5P 13
6P 11
7P 9
8P 8

Map 33: Classic Cities: Pot Mosbi
Map: cairnswk Gameplay: Victor Sullivan Graphics: cairnswk XML: nolefan5311
Territories: 104
Starting Neutrals: 12
Special Features:Ranged attacks, starting neutrals, killer neutrals, impassables, losing condition.
Description: PNG still has an ancient culture. Pot Mosbi is based on the Tok Pisin language native to the area. 8 tribes arrive in Pot Mosbi to participate in a Sing-Sing. The local natives are wary that tribal wars might break out and one tribe try to take over. Will your tribe survive?
2P 30
3P 30
4P 23
5P 18
6P 15
7P 13
8P 11

Map 34 New Zealand
Map, GFX, XML: All cairnswk
Territories 73
Starting Neutrals 16
Special Features: Ranged attacks, Starting Neutrals, impassables
Descirption: NZ is a great place to visit and live with a fantastic combination of Māori and English culture. Plenty of flights to get around and see everything. Experience the Māori culture by receiving favours from the Tiki. Conquer the whole country and you get to be Māori Monarch.
2P 19
3P 19
4P 14
5P 11
6P 9
7P 8
8P 7
Last edited by cairnswk on Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby ender516 on Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:56 pm

Spelling note for Map 32: Blue "Mountains", not "Moutains".
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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby thenobodies80 on Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:20 am

Just to let you know I was asked to not update my gallery anymore because it will be implemented here at some point.

All the descriptions that will be posted here will be added by me to the CC map database only.
The database is the "hidden" part of the gallery so any info you can post here will be useful, even if you won't see them appear on my own gallery. ;)

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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby agentcom on Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:37 pm

Awesome!
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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby macbone on Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:42 pm

Nobodies, I'd love to have the option to sort by user rating, so I could see which maps have been rated highest in gameplay, enjoyment, etc.
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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby thenobodies80 on Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:24 am

Not sure if you care but I'm going to apply some major changes to the gallery so it won't be available for a couple of days. I'll post more info very soon! :)
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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby chapcrap on Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:30 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:Not sure if you care but I'm going to apply some major changes to the gallery so it won't be available for a couple of days. I'll post more info very soon! :)
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New info yet?!
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