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Postby happysadfun on Thu Dec 28, 2006 10:33 am

MarVal wrote:No, that's the sign of the city Luxembourg, not the country Luxembourgh.

But thanks for you're suggestion.

Grtz
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It says Grand Duchy. Isn't that the country?

BTW, is Grtz your multi account or something? :D
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Postby onbekende on Thu Dec 28, 2006 11:51 am

Grand Dutchy a country? :D

no

and grtz is a sort of greetings
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Postby MarVal on Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:01 pm

RuS wrote:And yet again, i'd rather see 'kempen' (with a piece of limburg also) than now the extra continent 'brugse ommeland', in belgium, everyone knows 'de kempen' but not everyone knows 'het brugse ommeland'


Oké, I agree and find it a good option.
I wait if more people wants De Kempen (the north of Antwerpen and Belgisch Limburg) instead of Brugse Ommeland.
So please people let us know what U think about it?

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And like onbekende says: Grtz means Greetings...
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UPDATE 02

Postby MarVal on Sat Dec 30, 2006 5:57 pm

UPDATE 02

Below the latest development of the map BeNeLux. Look at the first topic to view the map. Some suggestions that were mentioned:

- Country Ostkantone instead of Country Verviers.
- New Coats of arms of Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg.
- Graphics, such as the sea, the landarea around the BeNeLux and the rivers.

So let us know what U think about the map BeNeLux so far.

Grtz
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Postby onbekende on Sat Dec 30, 2006 6:09 pm

Very nice, I have only 1 thing to say

FINAL FORGE
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Postby Marvaddin on Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:20 pm

Before that, let me give another look... :D

Well, I still dont believe double numbers can fit well in these little circles, but if you tested already, great :)

Are those dark areas supposed to be hills or something? They are beautiful in pink and green continent, but they arent helping to much in the other areas, specially in light ones where they are not texturized, and mainly in Vlaams Brabant, where it looks like another country, in fact.

About the capitals, can I suggest you change Vlaams Brabant name to Bruxelles, and mark it with a simple star (without the "B") and do the same to other capitals?

I like the ocean. But, the shields are too bright, I believe... And could you try put the names of the continents in the proper colours in the legend? By the way, the title looks like very simplistic, and the map could deserve something more elaborated... why orange, is there a reason (just curious, since you are always posting Benelux in orange, too)?

I suppose you are going to abbreviate some names in the xml, at least, so the drop box wont be gigantic, huh? :wink:

About playability, a classic analysis...
Countries, Border countries, Attack routes.
Luxembourg, 3, 1, 2... bonus 1 ok
La Wallonie, 9, 5, 6... bonus could be 6... or you could block the route to neufchateau.
Belgisch Brabant, 2, 2, 6... bonus 2 ok, since you can start already with half of it... or it all :)
Vlaanderen, 6, 6, 8... for a bonus of 4? And the countries arent connected! Man, this is the most undervalued continent of all maps, not even Africa (classic) can be worse... I would strongly suggest block the routes to the countries to west, and connect the countries, so it would simply suck (with a bonus of 4), but this way and with this bonus its simply the worst ever :shock:
Zuid en Oost (Southeast??) Nederland, 9, 5, 7... bonus of 6 could be ok, but I would suggest block at least one attack route, maybe Drenthe.
West Nederland, 9, 7, 8... bonus 6 is too low... Again, maybe blocking some routes...
Noord Nederland, 4, 3, 4,... bonus of 3 is ok.

In fact, most regions have many borders, many of these borders are small and could be easily removed... Some more unpassable, or little adjusts to borders would be greatly benefic. At least, in my opinion... Or, split some continents? A map with, 3 regions of 9 countries each... and at least 5 borders... the greatest wasteland ever, lol... and 3 minor continents. If you dont grab one of these, to where will you run? :roll:

Dont stress if your goal is something like this, Im just pointing it, so people can discuss, give alternatives, etc... :D
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Postby Wisse on Sun Dec 31, 2006 4:30 am

Marvaddin wrote:Zuid en Oost (Southeast??) Nederland, 9, 5, 7... bonus of 6 could be ok,

no not southeast but south and east
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Postby MarVal on Sun Dec 31, 2006 5:27 am

Marvaddin wrote:Dont stress if your goal is something like this, Im just pointing it, so people can discuss, give alternatives, etc... :D


No, I will not stress. On the contrary I think you're suggestions are great.
You're quit good of making maps (Like Brazil), so I'm glad you will help use to make a playable gamemap. Thanks.

By the way, Orange is the color of the monarchies.

Grtz
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P.S.: About the Final Forge. I don't think we can put the map BeNelux into the Final Forge. Only AndyDufresne (our Zookeeper & Foundry Foreman) can do it. Or am I wrong?
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Postby Wisse on Sun Dec 31, 2006 9:34 am

MarVal wrote:
Marvaddin wrote:Dont stress if your goal is something like this, Im just pointing it, so people can discuss, give alternatives, etc... :D


No, I will not stress. On the contrary I think you're suggestions are great.
You're quit good of making maps (Like Brazil), so I'm glad you will help use to make a playable gamemap. Thanks.

By the way, Orange is the color of the monarchies.

Grtz
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P.S.: About the Final Forge. I don't think we can put the map BeNelux into the Final Forge. Only AndyDufresne (our Zookeeper & Foundry Foreman) can do it. Or am I wrong?

you are right ;)
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Postby happysadfun on Sun Dec 31, 2006 10:38 am

onbekende wrote:Grand Dutchy a country? :D

no

and grtz is a sort of greetings

Grand Duchy of Luxembourg is the official name. It is ruled by a Grand Duke, so Grand Duchy is its governmental system.

ah, ok.
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Postby onbekende on Sun Dec 31, 2006 10:46 am

perhaps, don't know the english official name

Dutch: "Groothertogdom Luxemburg"
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Postby Wisse on Sun Dec 31, 2006 11:45 am

call it luxemburg or luxembourg and i'll be fine :P
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Postby AndyDufresne on Sun Dec 31, 2006 1:10 pm

Lets see the most updated version of the map.


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Postby MarVal on Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:28 pm

Tomorrowevening (European time) I will make the newest update with the suggestions of Marvaddin and others.

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UPDATE 03

Postby MarVal on Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:17 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:Lets see the most updated version of the map.

--Andy

Andy,

Below the latest development of the map BeNeLux.

UPDATE 03
Larger map :
(600x456)

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(Click to reduce to mapsize 500x380)

Some suggestions that were mentioned:

- Dark areas on the map are gone.
- Capitals stars.
- The ocean less bright.
- Legenda changed.
- In the xml the textures of the countrynames will be shorter.
- La Wallonie 6 extra armies instead of 5..
- Countries in Vlaanderen are connected with eachother.
- Zuid- en Oost-Nederland block one more attack route to Flevoland and Schouwen-Duivenland.
- West Nederland block more attack route to Markizaat and Flevoland.
- 3 continents of 9 countries, 1 continent of 6 countries and 3 minor continents.

So let us know what U think about the map BeNeLux so far.

Grtz
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Last edited by MarVal on Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby RuS on Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:44 pm

Still i'd like to see the continent of 'de kempen' coming. Just cause it's more important in Belgium than 'Brugse Ommeland'.
You can take the West of Limburg and the East of Antwerp (you don't have to get the percise shape.
If you wouldn't adjust these, i'd feel sorry.
But nevertheless, it's your map.

I also would make 'Markizaat' a little bigger to the West, so Antwerpen and Walcheren don't touch anymore.

And a last idea, why don't introduce the 'countries' Voeren and Komen? It's quite a hot item in belgium, cause for example 'Voeren' hasn't got any border with Flandres but is Flemish (it lies against the dutch border in Liege).
Same with Komen but then in the west. And Komen is a part of Wallonie but lies in West-Vlaanderen.
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Postby Marvaddin on Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:07 pm

Very few changes about playability. In general lines, its all the same, including Vlaanderen being the worst wasteland in all CC maps. Those changes make it just a bit better, it still needs an urgent bonus upgrade. About playability, I suggest you to split Zuid en Oost Nederland (maybe Zuid Nederland and Oost Nederland, lol) in two areas, each one at one side of that river. In this case, I also suggest:
1) Block Limburg to Belgisch Limburg route.
2) Make Walcheren an island, so it doesnt connect to other continents, even more to 2 continents.
3) Add route Markizaat to Zuid Holland.
4) Remove Waddengebied to Texel route.
5) Remove Dikrech to Neufchateau route (I still dislike it).

I dont know if there is something really terribly wrong about my suggestions, but I want place them.

I still cant understand why dont rename Vlaams Brabant as Bruxelles, and Noord Holland as Amsterdam.

The legend and the title are still not ok... the title is a bit blocky, and in fact I think this orange colour is too bright and a bit out of context, at least to normal mortals. The name of the red are in the legend is a bit difficult to read. And the unpassable borders now look like a fence... the old mountains were much better.

Just my opinion :)
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Postby RuS on Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:12 am

Marvaddin wrote:
I still cant understand why dont rename Vlaams Brabant as Bruxelles, and Noord Holland as Amsterdam.


Cause I guess you don't know much about the situation of the provinces in Belgium and Holland? Everywhere the regions are named after REGIONS or Provinces (although he could adjust Neufchateau to Ardennes and Dinant to Condroz). By the way, why should it be in French? In that place they speak Dutch as well.
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Postby Wisse on Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:15 am

RuS wrote:
Marvaddin wrote:
I still cant understand why dont rename Vlaams Brabant as Bruxelles, and Noord Holland as Amsterdam.


Cause I guess you don't know much about the situation of the provinces in Belgium and Holland? Everywhere the regions are named after REGIONS or Provinces (although he could adjust Neufchateau to Ardennes and Dinant to Condroz). By the way, why should it be in French? In that place they speak Dutch as well.


don't name noord holland as amsterdam... amsterdam is a city not a province, bruxelles is possible i think ;)

and rus thats because 1/2 of belgium is france ;)
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Postby RuS on Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:18 am

Wisse wrote:
and rus thats because 1/2 of belgium is france ;)


I ment 'Bruxelles' by that, why not just Brussel (it lays completely surrounded by 'Vlaanderen', logical, no?)
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Postby Wisse on Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:29 am

RuS wrote:
Wisse wrote:
and rus thats because 1/2 of belgium is france ;)


I ment 'Bruxelles' by that, why not just Brussel (it lays completely surrounded by 'Vlaanderen', logical, no?)

eum brussel/bruxelles is also 1/2 france :P so he have to chose
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Postby RuS on Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:37 am

Wisse wrote:
RuS wrote:
Wisse wrote:
and rus thats because 1/2 of belgium is france ;)


I ment 'Bruxelles' by that, why not just Brussel (it lays completely surrounded by 'Vlaanderen', logical, no?)

eum brussel/bruxelles is also 1/2 france :P so he have to chose


I don't care, I will not give it to the Wallons, with their fake news and all... :):D;)
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Postby VDB on Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:37 am

Brussels is not part of Vlaams Brabant, nor is it part of Brabant wallon (which erronuously is called simply "wallon" on the Benelux map. It is an independant city-region within Belgium with it's own gouvernment.
Contrary to the surrounding Vlaams Brabant and Brabant wallon, it is an officially bilingual french-dutch speaking region.

By the way: PLEASE USE THE NAME "BRUSSELS" in stead of "Bruxelles" on the map. "Bruxelles" is only one of two official and equaly valid names and using only the french version might seriously offend some Dutch speaking Belgian players on this forum.

I know maps are supposed to be practical, rather than pollitically correct, but it would be sad to see this map give a wrong impression of pollitical reality in the Benelux (for the same reason i would prefer to see you guys drop the orange baxkgrounds, which are an exclusive Dutch thing and have nothing to do with Belgium or Luxemburg. Nice idea for the dutch map, but inapropriate for a benelux map.)
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Postby dafranca on Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:45 am

Marvaddin wrote:Very few changes about playability. In general lines, its all the same, including Vlaanderen being the worst wasteland in all CC maps. Those changes make it just a bit better, it still needs an urgent bonus upgrade. About playability, I suggest you to split Zuid en Oost Nederland (maybe Zuid Nederland and Oost Nederland, lol) in two areas, each one at one side of that river. In this case, I also suggest:
1) Block Limburg to Belgisch Limburg route.
2) Make Walcheren an island, so it doesnt connect to other continents, even more to 2 continents.
3) Add route Markizaat to Zuid Holland.
4) Remove Waddengebied to Texel route.
5) Remove Dikrech to Neufchateau route (I still dislike it).


Those sugestion to Marvaddin will improve alot the gameability.
In addition to Marvaddin's sugestion:
6) Add non-crossing in Brugse Ommeland to Xeeuws- Vlaanderen.
7) After you remove Waddengebied to Texel route, make Noord-Nederland +2 bonus only.
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Postby Ruben Cassar on Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:03 pm

VDB wrote:Brussels is not part of Vlaams Brabant, nor is it part of Brabant wallon (which erronuously is called simply "wallon" on the Benelux map. It is an independant city-region within Belgium with it's own gouvernment.
Contrary to the surrounding Vlaams Brabant and Brabant wallon, it is an officially bilingual french-dutch speaking region.

By the way: PLEASE USE THE NAME "BRUSSELS" in stead of "Bruxelles" on the map. "Bruxelles" is only one of two official and equaly valid names and using only the french version might seriously offend some Dutch speaking Belgian players on this forum.

I know maps are supposed to be practical, rather than pollitically correct, but it would be sad to see this map give a wrong impression of pollitical reality in the Benelux (for the same reason i would prefer to see you guys drop the orange baxkgrounds, which are an exclusive Dutch thing and have nothing to do with Belgium or Luxemburg. Nice idea for the dutch map, but inapropriate for a benelux map.)


Actually, as far as I know Brussels (English) is internationally knows as Bruxelles and Belgium as Belgique. I don't know why the French version is used. Even if you check Euronews they use Bruxelles. Maybe Euronews is controlled by the Walloon? *lol* I prefer Bruxelles though...it sounds more chic. Sorry about that Flemish friends. ;)
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