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Postby RuS on Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:44 pm

Still i'd like to see the continent of 'de kempen' coming. Just cause it's more important in Belgium than 'Brugse Ommeland'.
You can take the West of Limburg and the East of Antwerp (you don't have to get the percise shape.
If you wouldn't adjust these, i'd feel sorry.
But nevertheless, it's your map.

I also would make 'Markizaat' a little bigger to the West, so Antwerpen and Walcheren don't touch anymore.

And a last idea, why don't introduce the 'countries' Voeren and Komen? It's quite a hot item in belgium, cause for example 'Voeren' hasn't got any border with Flandres but is Flemish (it lies against the dutch border in Liege).
Same with Komen but then in the west. And Komen is a part of Wallonie but lies in West-Vlaanderen.
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Postby Marvaddin on Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:07 pm

Very few changes about playability. In general lines, its all the same, including Vlaanderen being the worst wasteland in all CC maps. Those changes make it just a bit better, it still needs an urgent bonus upgrade. About playability, I suggest you to split Zuid en Oost Nederland (maybe Zuid Nederland and Oost Nederland, lol) in two areas, each one at one side of that river. In this case, I also suggest:
1) Block Limburg to Belgisch Limburg route.
2) Make Walcheren an island, so it doesnt connect to other continents, even more to 2 continents.
3) Add route Markizaat to Zuid Holland.
4) Remove Waddengebied to Texel route.
5) Remove Dikrech to Neufchateau route (I still dislike it).

I dont know if there is something really terribly wrong about my suggestions, but I want place them.

I still cant understand why dont rename Vlaams Brabant as Bruxelles, and Noord Holland as Amsterdam.

The legend and the title are still not ok... the title is a bit blocky, and in fact I think this orange colour is too bright and a bit out of context, at least to normal mortals. The name of the red are in the legend is a bit difficult to read. And the unpassable borders now look like a fence... the old mountains were much better.

Just my opinion :)
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Postby RuS on Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:12 am

Marvaddin wrote:
I still cant understand why dont rename Vlaams Brabant as Bruxelles, and Noord Holland as Amsterdam.


Cause I guess you don't know much about the situation of the provinces in Belgium and Holland? Everywhere the regions are named after REGIONS or Provinces (although he could adjust Neufchateau to Ardennes and Dinant to Condroz). By the way, why should it be in French? In that place they speak Dutch as well.
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Postby Wisse on Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:15 am

RuS wrote:
Marvaddin wrote:
I still cant understand why dont rename Vlaams Brabant as Bruxelles, and Noord Holland as Amsterdam.


Cause I guess you don't know much about the situation of the provinces in Belgium and Holland? Everywhere the regions are named after REGIONS or Provinces (although he could adjust Neufchateau to Ardennes and Dinant to Condroz). By the way, why should it be in French? In that place they speak Dutch as well.


don't name noord holland as amsterdam... amsterdam is a city not a province, bruxelles is possible i think ;)

and rus thats because 1/2 of belgium is france ;)
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Postby RuS on Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:18 am

Wisse wrote:
and rus thats because 1/2 of belgium is france ;)


I ment 'Bruxelles' by that, why not just Brussel (it lays completely surrounded by 'Vlaanderen', logical, no?)
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Postby Wisse on Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:29 am

RuS wrote:
Wisse wrote:
and rus thats because 1/2 of belgium is france ;)


I ment 'Bruxelles' by that, why not just Brussel (it lays completely surrounded by 'Vlaanderen', logical, no?)

eum brussel/bruxelles is also 1/2 france :P so he have to chose
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Postby RuS on Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:37 am

Wisse wrote:
RuS wrote:
Wisse wrote:
and rus thats because 1/2 of belgium is france ;)


I ment 'Bruxelles' by that, why not just Brussel (it lays completely surrounded by 'Vlaanderen', logical, no?)

eum brussel/bruxelles is also 1/2 france :P so he have to chose


I don't care, I will not give it to the Wallons, with their fake news and all... :):D;)
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Postby VDB on Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:37 am

Brussels is not part of Vlaams Brabant, nor is it part of Brabant wallon (which erronuously is called simply "wallon" on the Benelux map. It is an independant city-region within Belgium with it's own gouvernment.
Contrary to the surrounding Vlaams Brabant and Brabant wallon, it is an officially bilingual french-dutch speaking region.

By the way: PLEASE USE THE NAME "BRUSSELS" in stead of "Bruxelles" on the map. "Bruxelles" is only one of two official and equaly valid names and using only the french version might seriously offend some Dutch speaking Belgian players on this forum.

I know maps are supposed to be practical, rather than pollitically correct, but it would be sad to see this map give a wrong impression of pollitical reality in the Benelux (for the same reason i would prefer to see you guys drop the orange baxkgrounds, which are an exclusive Dutch thing and have nothing to do with Belgium or Luxemburg. Nice idea for the dutch map, but inapropriate for a benelux map.)
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Postby dafranca on Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:45 am

Marvaddin wrote:Very few changes about playability. In general lines, its all the same, including Vlaanderen being the worst wasteland in all CC maps. Those changes make it just a bit better, it still needs an urgent bonus upgrade. About playability, I suggest you to split Zuid en Oost Nederland (maybe Zuid Nederland and Oost Nederland, lol) in two areas, each one at one side of that river. In this case, I also suggest:
1) Block Limburg to Belgisch Limburg route.
2) Make Walcheren an island, so it doesnt connect to other continents, even more to 2 continents.
3) Add route Markizaat to Zuid Holland.
4) Remove Waddengebied to Texel route.
5) Remove Dikrech to Neufchateau route (I still dislike it).


Those sugestion to Marvaddin will improve alot the gameability.
In addition to Marvaddin's sugestion:
6) Add non-crossing in Brugse Ommeland to Xeeuws- Vlaanderen.
7) After you remove Waddengebied to Texel route, make Noord-Nederland +2 bonus only.
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Postby Ruben Cassar on Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:03 pm

VDB wrote:Brussels is not part of Vlaams Brabant, nor is it part of Brabant wallon (which erronuously is called simply "wallon" on the Benelux map. It is an independant city-region within Belgium with it's own gouvernment.
Contrary to the surrounding Vlaams Brabant and Brabant wallon, it is an officially bilingual french-dutch speaking region.

By the way: PLEASE USE THE NAME "BRUSSELS" in stead of "Bruxelles" on the map. "Bruxelles" is only one of two official and equaly valid names and using only the french version might seriously offend some Dutch speaking Belgian players on this forum.

I know maps are supposed to be practical, rather than pollitically correct, but it would be sad to see this map give a wrong impression of pollitical reality in the Benelux (for the same reason i would prefer to see you guys drop the orange baxkgrounds, which are an exclusive Dutch thing and have nothing to do with Belgium or Luxemburg. Nice idea for the dutch map, but inapropriate for a benelux map.)


Actually, as far as I know Brussels (English) is internationally knows as Bruxelles and Belgium as Belgique. I don't know why the French version is used. Even if you check Euronews they use Bruxelles. Maybe Euronews is controlled by the Walloon? *lol* I prefer Bruxelles though...it sounds more chic. Sorry about that Flemish friends. ;)
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Postby Wisse on Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:08 pm

just make in the legend "brussel/bruxelles" and everyone is happy

and the orange things aren't just dutch, you know we don't use orange much. only with sport and queensday, i like it on the map ;)
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Postby Ruben Cassar on Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:11 pm

Wisse wrote:just make in the legend "brussel/bruxelles" and everyone is happy

and the orange things aren't just dutch, you know we don't use orange much. only with sport and queensday, i like it on the map ;)


And why not Bruxelles/Brussel? :p
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Postby onbekende on Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:12 pm

Because 60% speak dutch in Belgium
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Postby Ruben Cassar on Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:14 pm

onbekende wrote:Because 60% speak dutch in Belgium


But that's Bruxelles...I think 50.1% speak French there right? ;) I am kidding guys. :)
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Postby Wisse on Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:14 pm

Ruben Cassar wrote:
Wisse wrote:just make in the legend "brussel/bruxelles" and everyone is happy

and the orange things aren't just dutch, you know we don't use orange much. only with sport and queensday, i like it on the map ;)


And why not Bruxelles/Brussel? :p

omg :P it doesn't matter! :P
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Postby onbekende on Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:17 pm

Ruben Cassar wrote:
onbekende wrote:Because 60% speak dutch in Belgium


But that's Bruxelles...I think 50.1% speak French there right? ;) I am kidding guys. :)
too many If you ask me, but that is besides the point

I have no suggestions/comments currently for the map
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Postby Ruben Cassar on Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:24 pm

Jokes apart I got interested in the subject and did some research. Apparently while 60% of the people in Belgium speak Dutch, 85% of the people in Brussels speak French so maybe that's why Bruxelles is used more frequently!
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Postby onbekende on Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:27 pm

Bruxelles is used so much because the government there speak French, and normally they need to be able to talk dutch too, but they do with such an accent, everyone knows they are french, not happens the other way around, we Flemish can sometimes speak fluent French
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Postby Ruben Cassar on Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:30 pm

Belgium fascinates me. I have been there and it is extremely beautiful. I also loved its beer and chocolates. :) I think the city I liked most was Bruges. Sorry...I know I am going off topic.
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Postby onbekende on Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:32 pm

off topic : bigger thread, which I like

Brugges you say, the Venice of the north
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Postby happysadfun on Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:33 pm

No, Bruges is the Venice of the Middle. Stockholm is the Venice of the North.
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UPDATE 04

Postby MarVal on Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:28 pm

Below the latest development of the map BeNeLux.

UPDATE 04
Larger map :
(600x456)

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(Click to reduce to mapsize 500x380)

Some suggestions that were mentioned:

- Zuid- en Oost-Nederland seperated into Zuid-Nederland and Oost-Nederland.
- Oost-Nederland 3 extra armies.
- Zuid-Nederland 5 extra armies
- No attack route from Limburg to Belgisch Limburg.
- No attack route from Walcheren to Markizaat and Antwerpen.
- Attack route from Markizaat to Zuid-Holland.
- No attack route from Waddengebied to Texel.
- No attack route from Dikrech to Neufchateau.
- No attack route from Brugse Ommeland to Zeeuws-Vlaanderen.
- Noord-Nederland 2 extra armies.
- New Legenda and BeNeLux textures in the three Flags.

So let us know what U think about the map BeNeLux so far.

By the way, what shall we do with Bruxelles. Will it be Bruxelles or Brussels. I think Ruben Cassar has a point, because the map is for everybody and everybody know the name Bruxelles instead of Brussels.

And in my next update I will add De Kempen instead of Brugse Ommeland. De Kempen lies between Antwerpen and Belgisch Limburg and is connected to Markizaat and De Peel, but NOT connected to Vlaams Brabant.

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Postby KEYOGI on Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:35 pm

I think the playability of this map has been good for some time, so my comments only concern the visual appeal of the map.

I'm not a fan of the bridges, I don't think they really go with the rest of the map.

I think the Be Ne Lux title within the flags needs to be improved. Even if you just add a thin outline to the letters to give it better contrast.

Lastly, I'm not sure how well blue numbers will show up on the Zuid-Nederland continent. I think it looks quite nice how it is, but a lighter blue is going to be needed.
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Postby MarVal on Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:03 pm

KEYOGI wrote:I'm not a fan of the bridges, I don't think they really go with the rest of the map.


Do you have or anybody else an suggestion or solution to make the bridges more nicer?

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Postby Lone.prophet on Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:05 pm

the army shade on the wadden groep isnt very visible
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