BeNeLux [Quenched]

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Postby onbekende on Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:17 pm

Ruben Cassar wrote:
onbekende wrote:Because 60% speak dutch in Belgium


But that's Bruxelles...I think 50.1% speak French there right? ;) I am kidding guys. :)
too many If you ask me, but that is besides the point

I have no suggestions/comments currently for the map
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Postby Ruben Cassar on Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:24 pm

Jokes apart I got interested in the subject and did some research. Apparently while 60% of the people in Belgium speak Dutch, 85% of the people in Brussels speak French so maybe that's why Bruxelles is used more frequently!
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Postby onbekende on Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:27 pm

Bruxelles is used so much because the government there speak French, and normally they need to be able to talk dutch too, but they do with such an accent, everyone knows they are french, not happens the other way around, we Flemish can sometimes speak fluent French
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Postby Ruben Cassar on Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:30 pm

Belgium fascinates me. I have been there and it is extremely beautiful. I also loved its beer and chocolates. :) I think the city I liked most was Bruges. Sorry...I know I am going off topic.
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Postby onbekende on Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:32 pm

off topic : bigger thread, which I like

Brugges you say, the Venice of the north
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Postby happysadfun on Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:33 pm

No, Bruges is the Venice of the Middle. Stockholm is the Venice of the North.
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UPDATE 04

Postby MarVal on Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:28 pm

Below the latest development of the map BeNeLux.

UPDATE 04
Larger map :
(600x456)

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(Click to reduce to mapsize 500x380)

Some suggestions that were mentioned:

- Zuid- en Oost-Nederland seperated into Zuid-Nederland and Oost-Nederland.
- Oost-Nederland 3 extra armies.
- Zuid-Nederland 5 extra armies
- No attack route from Limburg to Belgisch Limburg.
- No attack route from Walcheren to Markizaat and Antwerpen.
- Attack route from Markizaat to Zuid-Holland.
- No attack route from Waddengebied to Texel.
- No attack route from Dikrech to Neufchateau.
- No attack route from Brugse Ommeland to Zeeuws-Vlaanderen.
- Noord-Nederland 2 extra armies.
- New Legenda and BeNeLux textures in the three Flags.

So let us know what U think about the map BeNeLux so far.

By the way, what shall we do with Bruxelles. Will it be Bruxelles or Brussels. I think Ruben Cassar has a point, because the map is for everybody and everybody know the name Bruxelles instead of Brussels.

And in my next update I will add De Kempen instead of Brugse Ommeland. De Kempen lies between Antwerpen and Belgisch Limburg and is connected to Markizaat and De Peel, but NOT connected to Vlaams Brabant.

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Postby KEYOGI on Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:35 pm

I think the playability of this map has been good for some time, so my comments only concern the visual appeal of the map.

I'm not a fan of the bridges, I don't think they really go with the rest of the map.

I think the Be Ne Lux title within the flags needs to be improved. Even if you just add a thin outline to the letters to give it better contrast.

Lastly, I'm not sure how well blue numbers will show up on the Zuid-Nederland continent. I think it looks quite nice how it is, but a lighter blue is going to be needed.
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Postby MarVal on Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:03 pm

KEYOGI wrote:I'm not a fan of the bridges, I don't think they really go with the rest of the map.


Do you have or anybody else an suggestion or solution to make the bridges more nicer?

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Postby Lone.prophet on Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:05 pm

the army shade on the wadden groep isnt very visible
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Postby MarVal on Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:07 pm

Lone.prophet wrote:the army shade on the wadden groep isnt very visible


Yeah, you're right. I will fixed it. Thanks.

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Postby CaraLucia on Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:26 pm

North Netherlands (groningen and Friesland) white on dark red

and the Waddeneilanden are still a strange area
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Postby AndyDufresne on Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:21 pm

Well I like the look of this map....

  • One of my main concerns...names and placement....especially the West area. Is there any way you can abbreviate? You will surely have to abbreviate these for the Drop Down list, so why not on the map? I don't know of any proper abbreviations, but Z. Vlaanderen, G. Overflakkee, etc. Right now, the long names are plaguing the map.
  • I noticed that green and pink have a texture...or at least an underlying image, but none of the others, why? I say do it for all of them.
  • Regarding the font, you might want to look into making the names bigger in size.
  • Definitely get rid of those bridges across water you currently have...the visuals aren't appealing. Look into something else that could visually represent a bridge.
  • I'm alright with the mountains...but I suggest making them a little thicker and larger on the map. They almost get lost in the chaos. (Yellow is in need of abbreviation also).
  • Consider making the legend slightly bigger, as it feels small.
  • Also, the west area feels like it's in chaos. Could you make the Benelux title a little more clearer? Also, you might want to consider moving or removing some of the crests....
  • The stars look a little oddly shaped...look into a different visual representation there.

Hope to comment more later.


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Postby dafranca on Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:37 pm

You need ajust same bonus:
- Oost-Nederland needs only +2 bonus
- Zuid-Nederland needs only +4 bonus

I also think you should open borders from Liége to Limburg for better playability. Because if you open it you can move the army better... A good map you can attack from South to North... You map is kind keep, the north away from the south. So if you open it, Will make thinks better.
It is up to you. but if you don't open it make Zuid-Nederland needs only +3 bonus
Last edited by dafranca on Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby RuS on Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:21 pm

Maybe it's better to change the mountains between Brugse Ommeland and Zeeuws Vlaanderen into a creek (in real life called: 'Het Zwin') and between belgisch Limburg and Limburg in to the river 'de Maas', you can pull the Maas through going north, but just make it smaller or bridges across.
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Postby Forza AZ on Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:58 pm

RuS wrote:Maybe it's better to change the mountains between Brugse Ommeland and Zeeuws Vlaanderen into a creek (in real life called: 'Het Zwin') and between belgisch Limburg and Limburg in to the river 'de Maas', you can pull the Maas through going north, but just make it smaller or bridges across.

Problem with de Maas is that it won't block all of the border between Limburg and Belgisch Limburg. But maybe you can make the other part (in the North) into a wall or something like that.
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Postby RuS on Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:10 pm

Forza AZ wrote:
RuS wrote:Maybe it's better to change the mountains between Brugse Ommeland and Zeeuws Vlaanderen into a creek (in real life called: 'Het Zwin') and between belgisch Limburg and Limburg in to the river 'de Maas', you can pull the Maas through going north, but just make it smaller or bridges across.

Problem with de Maas is that it won't block all of the border between Limburg and Belgisch Limburg. But maybe you can make the other part (in the North) into a wall or something like that.

I know, but it hasn't have to lie on exactly the same spot it does in real life, does it?
And it could be used as a border between limburg and de peel, going up north-east being the border of 'maaskant'. I know, it isn't that realistic, but it's better to do that to give mountains to one of the most flat area's in europe. (of course there will have to be one or two bridges to limburg (from another country in zuid-limburg)

Btw, de Schelde (river between antwerp and Oost-vlaanderen) isn't following his real route neither.
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Postby MarVal on Thu Jan 04, 2007 4:38 pm

I've try to change the "mountains" in Limburg for a river. But it won't work in the blue area.

And the " mountains" is just a non crossing border. So it could be a mountain in peoples mind or not...

I'm still working on the next update.

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UPDATE 5

Postby MarVal on Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:50 pm

Below the latest development of the map BeNeLux.

UPDATE 05
Larger map :
(600x456)

Image
(Click to reduce to mapsize 500x380)

Some suggestions that were mentioned:

- Shorter names for the countries in the West.
- All continents has texrures or an underlying image.
- New bridges across rivers and the sea.
- "Mountains" are thicker and larger.
- The legend is slightly bigger included the names.
- Attack route from Limburg to Liège.
- New look of the stars.
- De Kempen instead of Brugse Ommeland.
- No attack route from Zeeuws-Vl. to West-Vlaanderen.
- No attack route from Limburg to De Kempen and Belgisch Limburg.
- No attack route from West-Nederland to Hainaut.
- Oost-Nederland 2 extra armies.
- Zuid-Nederland 4 extra armies.

I shall work on the text Be Ne Lux on the three flags!

So let us know what U think about the map BeNeLux so far.

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Postby KEYOGI on Fri Jan 05, 2007 5:22 am

I think the bridges look a lot better.

Things to still be considered:
- Mountains could be a little clearer/more obvious.
- Title is still unclear, I think this could be improved.
- Blue territory may still be too hard to read blue numbers on, I guess we'll need to see how it looks when you test the XML. Maybe even just reduce the darkness of the army shadows.
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Postby dafranca on Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:13 am

MarVal,

Congratulation, your map is coming among very nice. You are applying what people tell you and your map is benefiting from it.

I still have one last point in playability:

Vlaanderen: you can not have more borders then bonus - this is the basic concept on playability. So the best solution is to add borders between De Kempen and two countries from Zuid-Nederland (Markizaat, De Peel). After you done that, you will have to decrease the bonus in Zuid-Nederland to +3.

La Wallonie: I think it should have only +5 bonuses... because if you hold this continent, you supposed to hold Luxemburg too. So it will be 6+1 bonus with only 3 borders. And if you own Belgisch Brabant too, you will have 6+1+2 bonus and only going to defend 3 borders
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Postby MarVal on Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:25 pm

dafranca wrote:MarVal,

Congratulation, your map is coming among very nice. You are applying what people tell you and your map is benefiting from it.


Thanks for the compliment.
I shall work on you're last points in playability and ofcourse the other suggestions that were mentioned by others members.

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Postby MarVal on Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:44 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:Well I like the look of this map....

---- Also, you might want to consider moving or removing some of the crests.... ----

--Andy


Andy,

What are the crests?

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Postby oaktown on Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:45 pm

wait, there's a Benelux map AND a Netherlands map both in progress?? Seems like 90% of the maps people are working on are Europe or a fraction there-of.

Both this and Netherlands look really good - tell me what makes this one unique, and I'm on board.
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Postby MarVal on Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:02 pm

oaktown wrote:wait, there's a Benelux map AND a Netherlands map both in progress?? Seems like 90% of the maps people are working on are Europe or a fraction there-of.

Both this and Netherlands look really good - tell me what makes this one unique, and I'm on board.


This map makes it unique because the various / diverse of playabiltity (42 countries and 8 continents), history and nationality. And the map BeNelux is well-known by many people that are members of CC, because everyone knows Amsterdam, Bruxelles and Luxemburg City of the politics, vacations and many more. The diversity and gameplay of the map. Three monarchies countries that can be attacked / defend in different ways (42 countries and 8 continents).
The languages / cultures such as La Wallonie is French speaking and the east Germans, etc.
And its the map of The Dutch Language Forum.

I hope I can bring you on board.
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