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Re: Lunar War <v2> p1, 4

Postby natty dread on Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:14 pm

Looking better natty!! Though the text on the right side still seems a bit blurry. Anyway you can maybe make it metallic like you have the rocket labels??


Thanks. I'll work on the right side text, i'll try to come up with something better... the opposite colour drop shadow worked so well on the text on the left side that I just went nuts with it :D

As for the bonuses, I was thinking... when two players start from the same country, it will become a bloody competition of who gets the landing sites... I would suggest splitting tha landing site bonus in two as well:

+2 for 3 landing sites of a country
+5 for all landigns sites of a country

As for the seas, how about this:

5 seas +5
7 seas +8
10 seas +11
13 seas +16
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Re: Lunar War <v2> p1, 4

Postby isaiah40 on Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:45 pm

natty_dread wrote:
As for the bonuses, I was thinking... when two players start from the same country, it will become a bloody competition of who gets the landing sites... I would suggest splitting tha landing site bonus in two as well:

+2 for 3 landing sites of a country
+5 for all landigns sites of a country

As for the seas, how about this:

5 seas +5
7 seas +8
10 seas +11
13 seas +16


Any objections to this idea, I'm all for it!! Although, ar you going to have room for it?
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Re: Lunar War <v1> p1, 4

Postby Evil DIMwit on Sat Dec 05, 2009 2:14 am

isaiah40 wrote:
As far as theme, I think you're going in a good direction. If you're going to have Chinese and Japanese landing, though, I'd include Europe and India, too -- they've got their own lunar exploration programs going on.


Thank you! As natty also mentioned, unfortunately there isn't room for everything. Would you suggest maybe changing maybe either Japan or China say, for the EU?


I'd recommend splitting up Japan and China's rockets so each of China, Japan, India, and the EU have one rocket. The U.S. and Russia each having two makes since given their history -- though I'd also recommend making each of those countries' sets of landing sites visually distinct somehow -- maybe stripes for the second U.S. set and the Russian tricolor for the second Russian set?

isaiah40 wrote:
Finally, are there particular reasons for the one-way connections?


No particularly. Would you rather see everything be two attacks? We are open to suggestions, please let your voice be heard, we are just the makers, you are the players!!


Makes no difference to me, as long as the gameplay's solid. It's just odd for me to see a feature there with no purpose, especially a one-way connection on the moon, where there's not much real-world reason to have one.
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Re: Lunar War <v3> p1, 5

Postby natty dread on Sat Dec 05, 2009 6:59 am

Version 3.

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Mods, want to move this down to drafting room? I think this fulfills the requirements of a working draft by now.
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Re: Lunar War <v1> p1, 4

Postby ender516 on Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:23 am

Evil DIMwit wrote:I'd recommend splitting up Japan and China's rockets so each of China, Japan, India, and the EU have one rocket. The U.S. and Russia each having two makes since given their history -- though I'd also recommend making each of those countries' sets of landing sites visually distinct somehow -- maybe stripes for the second U.S. set and the Russian tricolor for the second Russian set?


I like this idea. Eight starting positions is good for all numbers of players. I'd like to think of the U.S. and Russian programs as divided between government and private industry, these being the only countries currently with the possibility of such a split. You could use a dollar sign for the U.S. private industry symbol, but I don't know if the Russians have a nifty symbol for the ruble.

And Sinus is Latin for Bay. I think you should either use all English or all Latin, with my vote for Latin, as it is equally accessible and understandable worldwide. In that case, the legend should talk about maria, not seas, and sinii, not bays. Of course we could put translations into the legend:

(__) Sinus (Bay) (__) Mare (Sea)
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Re: Lunar War <v3> p1, 5

Postby natty dread on Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:02 pm

I like this idea. Eight starting positions is good for all numbers of players.


We already have 8 starting positions. Each rocket is a starting position.

As for adding more countries or splitting japan & china into 2 countries each, I'm not very keen on it. It would screw the bonus system for one thing. I'll have to discuss this with isaiah, but I think we'd rather keep the 4 countries we have now.

And Sinus is Latin for Bay. I think you should either use all English or all Latin, with my vote for Latin, as it is equally accessible and understandable worldwide. In that case, the legend should talk about maria, not seas, and sinii, not bays. Of course we could put translations into the legend:


Good idea. I will fix the legend in the next version.
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Re: Lunar War <v3> p1, 5

Postby isaiah40 on Sat Dec 05, 2009 2:54 pm

natty_dread wrote:
I like this idea. Eight starting positions is good for all numbers of players.


We already have 8 starting positions. Each rocket is a starting position.

As for adding more countries or splitting japan & china into 2 countries each, I'm not very keen on it. It would screw the bonus system for one thing. I'll have to discuss this with isaiah, but I think we'd rather keep the 4 countries we have now.

And Sinus is Latin for Bay. I think you should either use all English or all Latin, with my vote for Latin, as it is equally accessible and understandable worldwide. In that case, the legend should talk about maria, not seas, and sinii, not bays. Of course we could put translations into the legend:


Good idea. I will fix the legend in the next version.


I agree with natty (okay so I'm biased because we're both working on the map) that the 4 countries we have now are enough. Unless the majority want 8 countries, we'll stick with what we have.
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Re: Lunar War <v3> p1, 5

Postby natty dread on Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:38 pm

Besides that the gameplay is designed around 4 countries...

Anyway, here's v4.

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Re: Lunar War <v5> p1, 5

Postby natty dread on Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:21 pm

Version 5.

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Re: Lunar War <v5> p1, 5

Postby ender516 on Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:32 pm

I like the flags in V5. It might be better to put those flags on the rockets as well, rather than below, with the old icons still on the rockets.

I suppose trying to divide the landing sites into eight groups would lead to very small bonus zones, so you are right to leave India and the EU out of this.

Typos: maria, Aristellus
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Re: Lunar War <v5> p1, 5

Postby isaiah40 on Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:15 am

ender516 wrote:I like the flags in V5. It might be better to put those flags on the rockets as well, rather than below, with the old icons still on the rockets.

I suppose trying to divide the landing sites into eight groups would lead to very small bonus zones, so you are right to leave India and the EU out of this.

Typos: maria, Aristellus


Good idea! You'd be able to see the flags better!
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Re: Lunar War <v5> p1, 5

Postby jefjef on Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:32 am

This is moving along quickly.

1 critique. Your rockets look like bullets. Maybe lengthen them a tad more.
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Re: Lunar War <v5> p1, 5

Postby natty dread on Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:40 am

I'll redraw the rockets for the next version.

Any latin experts here? I want to make sure all the names will be right.

So it's Maria instead of Marie (makes sense), and Aristillus = Aristellus?
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Re: Lunar War <v5> p1, 5

Postby ender516 on Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:48 am

natty_dread wrote:I'll redraw the rockets for the next version.

Any latin experts here? I want to make sure all the names will be right.

So it's Maria instead of Marie (makes sense), and Aristillus = Aristellus?

Sorry, in trying to correct your spelling, I made a mistake of my own. The legend has "Aris. = Arstillus", which is missing the first "i" in the full form, which is what I was trying to correct. But I switched the 2nd "i" to an "e". As near as I can Google, it is "Aristillus". I am pretty sure about the Latin, but if I remember at home, I'll check my old Collins Latin Gem Dictionary.

As far as the rockets go, maybe tail fins, or some tapering which suggests a multi-stage booster, would be a good idea.
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Re: Lunar War <v5> p1, 5

Postby natty dread on Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:13 am

The legend has "Aris. = Arstillus"


Ah, you're right :shock: I'll correct that.

Also your ideas for the rockets are good.
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Re: Lunar War <v5> p1, 5

Postby Industrial Helix on Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:37 am

I've been watching this map with unease. I want a moon map, but man I hate dots and connector lines. Fortunately, I think it has the potential to work on a map based on craters...

My first crit is that the Sinus seem unnecessary. You've got Mare already.

You've got 6 landing sites per country... cut each in half and add countries. part of the fun of a what if future mission is all the possibilities. The Indian Chandrayaan-I lunar mission found the first evidence of water on the moon just before the US mission confirmed this years big discovery. In fact, the Indian Space Agency is more capable of lunar landing and operations, at this point, than China or Japan.

The European Union could use some representation as well as it is capable of all forms of space exploration as the US, short of landing on the moon. They also spend the most on space exploration besides the US.

Brazil is also a very capable space nation as they run all sorts of rockets, have astronauts and operate satellites. Perhaps the most capable outside of the great powers.

Now if you want to delve deep into science fiction... the South African gov't this year signed a bill which marks their entrance into space exploration. Canada, S. Korea, Indonesia, Israel and Ukraine are all running strong space agencies which include operating rockets and satellites and having astronauts. So the choice is yours but I would love to see more countries involved in this map.

I say you should run with just one style of connection, either the dotted lines or the arrows. Using two is unnecessary and confusing.

The outline of the moon is pixelated.

Throw some stars into that black background.

Can you make the craters look like craters rather than purple circles? I didn't realize they were craters looking at the map until I resigned myself to looking at the lengthy legend. I think it should be obvious what a territory is when you look at it. The mares look great though, very distinctive but the blue line ruins it for me....

Have you guys considered running with a different color scheme? Or at least desaturating them some so that theyre not so bright and neon?

What about the two craters in the south west?

Anyway, good luck.
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Re: Lunar War <v5> p1, 5

Postby natty dread on Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:57 am

Wow, that's a lot of good criticism and I appreciate it. I'll let Isaiah answer to the gameplay issues, and concentrate on the graphical questions.

My first crit is that the Sinus seem unnecessary. You've got Mare already.


IMO it would be odd to group them along with the seas, when they are called bays.

I say you should run with just one style of connection, either the dotted lines or the arrows. Using two is unnecessary and confusing.


The arrows are used because the dotted lines would not be visible enough in the connections between the seas. And using the arrows in all connections would clutter the map and look really ugly.

The outline of the moon is pixelated.


This will be fixed, I was going to do it last update but forgot.

Throw some stars into that black background.


I will as soon as I find a good public domain starfield image.

Can you make the craters look like craters rather than purple circles? I didn't realize they were craters looking at the map until I resigned myself to looking at the lengthy legend. I think it should be obvious what a territory is when you look at it. The mares look great though, very distinctive but the blue line ruins it for me....


I will try to improve the craters. Which blue lines do you mean? The territory borders? I'm not sure what to do with them. There needs to be some way to indicate the borders of the seas. I'll try to redraw them as well, but they also need to be easily visible.

Have you guys considered running with a different color scheme? Or at least desaturating them some so that theyre not so bright and neon?


I think the map needs some colour. The background, the moon, is already so grey and dull, that adding some bright colours brings some contrast and makes the map look less boring.

There's lots of balancing of visual style vs. clarity of gameplay in this map. I'll try my best though.
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Re: Lunar War <v5> p1, 5

Postby natty dread on Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:58 am

Ps. could a mod please move this down to drafting room already?
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Re: Lunar War <v5> p1, 5

Postby isaiah40 on Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:26 pm

Industrial Helix wrote:I've been watching this map with unease. I want a moon map, but man I hate dots and connector lines. Fortunately, I think it has the potential to work on a map based on craters...

My first crit is that the Sinus seem unnecessary. You've got Mare already.

You've got 6 landing sites per country... cut each in half and add countries. part of the fun of a what if future mission is all the possibilities. The Indian Chandrayaan-I lunar mission found the first evidence of water on the moon just before the US mission confirmed this years big discovery. In fact, the Indian Space Agency is more capable of lunar landing and operations, at this point, than China or Japan.

The European Union could use some representation as well as it is capable of all forms of space exploration as the US, short of landing on the moon. They also spend the most on space exploration besides the US.

Brazil is also a very capable space nation as they run all sorts of rockets, have astronauts and operate satellites. Perhaps the most capable outside of the great powers.

Now if you want to delve deep into science fiction... the South African gov't this year signed a bill which marks their entrance into space exploration. Canada, S. Korea, Indonesia, Israel and Ukraine are all running strong space agencies which include operating rockets and satellites and having astronauts. So the choice is yours but I would love to see more countries involved in this map.

I say you should run with just one style of connection, either the dotted lines or the arrows. Using two is unnecessary and confusing.

The outline of the moon is pixelated.

Throw some stars into that black background.

Can you make the craters look like craters rather than purple circles? I didn't realize they were craters looking at the map until I resigned myself to looking at the lengthy legend. I think it should be obvious what a territory is when you look at it. The mares look great though, very distinctive but the blue line ruins it for me....

Have you guys considered running with a different color scheme? Or at least desaturating them some so that theyre not so bright and neon?

What about the two craters in the south west?

Anyway, good luck.


Great suggestions IH!!

I have let natty know that we can open up all the areas where the arrows are to show they are connected.

AS for the countries, I have thought about using more countries, but figured that it would clutter up the map too much. At the same time, splitting the rockets and landing sites in half could be done. I have suggested to natty to put up a poll asking that question, whether or not people want more countries! If the majority want that, then by all means we will get it done, as long as we have room in the legend. Natty and I will see if we can jugle things around in the legend to see if it can be done. It may be we will have to just say something like "+x for each counties landing sites".

We'll get it worked out!!
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Re: Lunar War <v5> p1, 5 *POLL*

Postby thenobodies80 on Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:35 pm

[ Moved ] to the drafting room.
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Re: Lunar War <v5> p1, 5 *POLL*

Postby Industrial Helix on Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:59 pm

The blue lines I'm talking about are those surrounding the Mares. Like Natty said, you're working with a very dull and monotone map and some color should liven things up. But I warn you to exercise caution. Neon color is going to make it look too gaudy as it breaks from the established tone of the map, which is towards the darker side. By all means, do color, but try and desaturate it or give it some wear and tear so that it fits in, yet livens up, the rest of the map.
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Re: Lunar War <v5> p1, 5 *POLL*

Postby captainwalrus on Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:32 pm

Lol, that latin will be funny when it is in the xml.
player x attacks from sinus whatever to mare whatever.
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Re: Lunar War <v5> p1, 5 *POLL*

Postby natty dread on Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:46 pm

captainwalrus wrote:Lol, that latin will be funny when it is in the xml.
player x attacks from sinus whatever to mare whatever.
My internal latin student: AHHHHH those aren't the right case!


That's very unfortunate, but do you have a solution in mind?
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Re: Lunar War <v5> p1, 5 *POLL*

Postby Evil DIMwit on Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:09 pm

captainwalrus wrote:Lol, that latin will be funny when it is in the xml.
player x attacks from sinus whatever to mare whatever.
My internal latin student: AHHHHH those aren't the right case!


As a student of both Latin and English, I can decidedly say, once the word's been imported, case no longer applies.
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Re: Lunar War <v5> p1, 5 *POLL*

Postby captainwalrus on Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:41 pm

Evil DIMwit wrote:
captainwalrus wrote:Lol, that latin will be funny when it is in the xml.
player x attacks from sinus whatever to mare whatever.
My internal latin student: AHHHHH those aren't the right case!


As a student of both Latin and English, I can decidedly say, once the word's been imported, case no longer applies.

Yeah, on Imperium Romanum i there is the same thing, It isn't really a problem, it is just funny to me.
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