South Africa 1885

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Re: South Africa 1885 Update 11/4

Postby Incandenza on Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:12 am

Nice start.

I have issues with a few of the bonus values atm... Right off the bat, I don't think that 1-terit bonuses should ever be worth more than a +1. Heck, even two-terit ones should prolly be +1s... I'd recommend knocking Amatongaland and Basutoland down to +1s, and bump all the neutral starts to 3 or maybe even 2. Also, despite that it has 3 borders, Grigua Land West would be better as a +2.

And I'd ditch the "hold all cape colonies for +13" concept, it'll come into play so breathtakingly rarely that it's probably not worth the legend space.

There needs to be better differentiation in the colors in the cape colony bonuses... I get that they're thematically linked, but right now North Cape and East Cape look like one big bonus.
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Re: South Africa 1885 Update 11/4

Postby natty dread on Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:06 am

And I'd ditch the "hold all cape colonies for +13" concept, it'll come into play so breathtakingly rarely that it's probably not worth the legend space.


I disagree, you should keep it, but add more two-tiered bonuses. You could incorporate some of the smaller bonus areas into the same one as that huge south african republic.. lets see:

- Hold all cape terits for +13 (+3 more)

- Hold:
{South african republic (+5)
Stellaland (+2) although this can be changed to +1
Swaziland (+1)}

for +10 (+2 more)

Orange free state, Grigua land west, Basutoland, for +14 (+2 more)

and natal + zululand would be the only ones which don't belong to a "supercontinent".

How about that!
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Re: South Africa 1885 Update 11/4

Postby Incandenza on Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:42 am

The problem with huge supercontinents on a map this size is that they so rarely come into play. I've played a lot of games on classic, and I can count on one hand the number of times I've held Asia.

The only time these bonuses would really come into play is maybe at the very bitter end of a game, when it doesn't really matter anyway. If you hold all 3 cape bonuses, for instance, you're about to win all but the most intractable no cards games. Besides, the extra bonus for holding the supercontinent is pretty small compared to what you're getting by holding the individual bonuses.

My overall point is that the superbonuses would come into play so breathtakingly rarely, and make little enough difference in the grand scheme, that it seems a waste to even have them. It's not a huge thing, but I'm a crotchety old asshole and set in my ways... :D
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Re: South Africa 1885 Update 11/4

Postby natty dread on Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:46 am

They could come in play in 1v1 games, possibly in 3 player games too...
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Re: South Africa 1885 Update 11/4

Postby alexandrois on Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:38 am

I would leave the super bonus in but i would makew the orange free state 6 not 7
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Re: South Africa 1885 Update 11/4

Postby Industrial Helix on Sun Nov 08, 2009 2:27 pm

Rash. Well it's definitely a good idea but I think Andy and Soundman have a point in keeping it relatively simple.

jefjef- It's a possibility. Evidently there were mountain passes at the time used in Die Groot Trek... it's something I'll consider but like others have suggested, I want to keep it form getting too overly complicated.

Incandenza, natty and alex - I hear you on the bonuses, I just copied what the calculator told me, I'll knock them down. As for the overall bonus, I'm leaning towards getting rid of it as its kind of redundant and I don't want to add more superbonuses to the one already there. As for whether or not it would ocme into play in smaller games, well, I have my doubts. If I scrap the superbonus I'm going to up two of the cape bonuses by 1 as per suggestion of the calculator. Any further thoughts on this?
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Re: South Africa 1885 Update 11/4

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:23 am

I'll just throw this out....one thing lackattack has always wanted to see in a map is where the supercontinent (like Asia) is variant objective to hold and win by...but only that specific continent (and you could still win by eliminating all opponents too). He seems to think it'd get more people to play in the wasteland.

I'm not sure it would be anything fitting for this map, but I thought I'd toss out the banana, since it is something lackattack has always told me he has wanted to see. :)


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Re: South Africa 1885 Update 11/4

Postby Industrial Helix on Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:13 pm

Andy - Hmm... it's definitely an interesting concept that is worth playing with, however, I don't think it would be appropriate for this map as conquering Cape Colony seems kind of like a strange objective for the whole of Southern Africa.

Which bring me to my next point: Do you guys prefer South Africa 1885 or Southern Africa 1885?

Southern Africa seems more appropriate, but the region is South Africa even before the Union of South Africa was arranged. Thoughts?
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Re: South Africa 1885 Update 11/4

Postby natty dread on Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:22 pm

I'd say South Africa, don't know why though, it just sounds better.
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Re: South Africa 1885 Update 11/4

Postby jefjef on Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:37 pm

South Africa. Southern Africa encompasses a larger area.
This post was made by jefjef who should be on your ignore list.
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Re: South Africa 1885 Update 11/4

Postby soundman on Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:51 pm

natty_dread wrote:I'd say South Africa, don't know why though, it just sounds better.

jefjef wrote:South Africa. Southern Africa encompasses a larger area.

Agree :)
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Re: South Africa 1885 Update 11/4

Postby isaiah40 on Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:53 pm

soundman wrote:
natty_dread wrote:I'd say South Africa, don't know why though, it just sounds better.

jefjef wrote:South Africa. Southern Africa encompasses a larger area.

Agree :)


I second that motion! :D
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Re: South Africa 1885 Update 11/4

Postby natty dread on Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:07 pm

isaiah40 wrote:I second third that motion! :D


;) :D
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Re: South Africa 1885 Update 11/4

Postby Industrial Helix on Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:14 pm

South Africa it stays then, thanks for the quick replies!
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Re: South Africa 1885 Update 11/4

Postby Incandenza on Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:44 pm

Industrial Helix wrote:Incandenza, natty and alex - I hear you on the bonuses, I just copied what the calculator told me, I'll knock them down.


The calculator is a nice tool, but I've always thought that on occasion it spits out bonus numbers that are a bit too high... Thanks for humoring me. :D
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