South Africa 1885

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Re: South Africa 1885 Update 11/4

Postby Industrial Helix on Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:39 pm

Alright guys... this hits just about everything we talked about. Lowered the bonuses, got rid of Die Groot Trek and the Cape Colony Bonus. I tried on the one way attacks and mountain passages that Jefjef mentioned... they just seemed out of place. It's like, if there's mountains there what's the point in putting a pass? Anyway, here she is:

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Re: South Africa 1885 Update 11/13 p. 3

Postby jefjef on Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:15 am

Pretoria and region is a big ole bottleneck. Putting that route in gives you a little more flow & gets rid of a couple pocket dead ends.
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Re: South Africa 1885 Update 11/13 p. 3

Postby natty dread on Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:34 am

Well, IMO it's good to have some bottlenecks, if there's not too many of them. They're nice places to fort all your troops.
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Re: South Africa 1885 Update 11/13 p. 3

Postby Industrial Helix on Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:47 pm

Yeah, I designed Pretoria to be that way given its significance as a major population and resources area. While it is definitely a bottleneck, it doesn't necessarily grant the person who holds it a bonus. With two more territories to defend, yes it gets the bonus, but still, the number of territories is large, meaning it will take time to gain it. I think it should be alright.

I got a couple of questions for you guys:

the border between Griguqatown and Kheis, is that clear enough? I think I might have to break the word GriquaTown into two and fit it differently.

Also, what do you make of the mountains?
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Re: South Africa 1885 Update 11/13 p. 3

Postby natty dread on Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:00 pm

Industrial Helix wrote:the border between Griguqatown and Kheis, is that clear enough? I think I might have to break the word GriquaTown into two and fit it differently.


I think it's fine.

Also, what do you make of the mountains?


Good otherwise, but they look a bit smudgy and unfocused. Maybe you could sharpen them a bit. Also you could add some shadowing on them.
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Re: South Africa 1885 Update 11/13 p. 3

Postby Industrial Helix on Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:45 pm

Ok, got rid of the dotted lines in favor of anchors. All the ports connected anyway. I redrew all the borders because they were kind of lumpy. I also made some minor changes to make sure that the small version was going to have room for its army numbers. I added a drop shadow to the mountains and cleaned up some of the fuzzy bits and gave it a sharpen filter. I also cleaned up a few sloppy graphics tidbits.

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Re: South Africa 1885 Update 11/15 p. 3

Postby natty dread on Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:11 pm

Yeah, that looks better, although now there are some parts that could use some subtle anti-aliasing.

Can't just please some people, eh :D

Also, the anchors are nice. Maybe reduce the glow around them a tiny bit. Not much, just a little nudge.
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Re: South Africa 1885 Update 11/15 p. 3

Postby soundman on Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:14 pm

I just doesn't look like the anchors fit the rest of the map. Is there another look of anchor you could use?
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Re: South Africa 1885 Update 11/15 p. 3

Postby Industrial Helix on Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:44 pm

Hmm... natty, what do you mean by anti-aliasing? I know its a photoshop deal but I really have no idea what it is. Thanks for any help or anyone else who might answer this.

Soundman... I hear ya. I might go for a thicker anchor or maybe something a little more wooden style.
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Re: South Africa 1885 Update 11/15 p. 3

Postby Incandenza on Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:00 pm

I rather like the mountains, they fit in well with the whole hand-drawn aesthetic you've got going...

But I concur with soundman, the port icons don't fit, they're too clean. More to the point, I think there might be too many of them. In a few places there are ports separated by only a single terit, kinda rendering moot the strategic advantage thereof. I think you could safely get rid of Grahamstown and one of the 3 in the east.
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Re: South Africa 1885 Update 11/15 p. 3

Postby natty dread on Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:36 am

Hmm... natty, what do you mean by anti-aliasing?


Anti-aliasing is a type of blurring, it smooths out the pixelation of bitmap images. Don't know what software you use, so it might be called something else.

As for the anchors, make them a bit thicker. I think what bothers people is that while you have all the other lines drawn with a thicker brush, the anchors seem too "slim" so they don't seem to fit... Make them thicker and they should be ok.
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Re: South Africa 1885 Update 11/15 p. 3

Postby AndyDufresne on Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:32 pm

Incandenza wrote:I rather like the mountains, they fit in well with the whole hand-drawn aesthetic you've got going...

But I concur with soundman, the port icons don't fit, they're too clean.

Right, I agree with this. I like the theme you have on the map, and I'd adapt the port icons to a style reminiscent of the mountains hand-drawn aspect.

I also still don't like the blue water in the legend, but you already know that. ;)

Have you experimented with colorblind tests to see if your colors are distinguishable? This may be important, especially because of the general lack of signifying color on the map (I.E. continents aren't solid).


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Re: South Africa 1885 Update 11/13 p. 3

Postby jefjef on Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:08 pm

Industrial Helix wrote:Yeah, I designed Pretoria to be that way given its significance as a major population and resources area. While it is definitely a bottleneck, it doesn't necessarily grant the person who holds it a bonus. With two more territories to defend, yes it gets the bonus, but still, the number of territories is large, meaning it will take time to gain it. I think it should be alright.



Well one more comment in re of Pretoria. That bottleneck is over 10% of your tert total.
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Re: South Africa 1885 Update 11/15 p. 3

Postby Raskholnikov on Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:31 pm

That\s 5 territories - which together do not constitute a region. One needs to conquer 2 more regions and defend 3 territories for that region. I don't find it that unusual.
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Re: South Africa 1885 Update 11/15 p. 3

Postby Industrial Helix on Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:44 am

I adjusted the anchors... I don't know if they work or not. They're a little thicker.

As for Pretoria, I really don't want to change it as it was a major hub for South Africa. All rail lnes would be going there, all roads would be going there, all economic resources would be going through there. It makes sense as major city to hold such weight on the map.

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Re: South Africa 1885 Update 11/23 p. 3

Postby natty dread on Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:01 pm

Very nice. I can't think of anything I'd change for now...

Well, the mountains could still use some blurring of the edges at some places. Perhaps adding a slight drop shadow on the mountains could make them look better?

Or, color the insides of the mountains with light grey to make them look more solid... right now, the bonus area colours overlap with the mountains, and that just seems wrong to my eye, somehow.
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Re: South Africa 1885 Update 11/23 p. 3

Postby captainwalrus on Mon Nov 23, 2009 5:11 pm

Why is stellaland split into three? Those three combined are smaller than some other single territories, why not just combine them and lower the bonus?
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Re: South Africa 1885 Update 11/23 p. 3

Postby Industrial Helix on Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:19 am

Natty - Ok, I'll take note of that. Do you think the same thing about the mountains applies to Wars of German and Italian Unification or is it just this map?

Cap'n - Well, I really don't want a whole bunch of tiny one and two terr bonuses and I tried to limit them where possible... so it arises out of that.

General Statement.

I think I want to steer this map away from standard gameplay and go for something different without getting too complex. I'm just not sure what exactly I thought I might pick the brains of the foundry to see what you guys might have.

Die Groot Trek was an interesting idea but I don't think it encompasses the whole of the map so it kind of doesn't work.

I was thinking something like conquer two or three of the areas for the win but I'm afraid it might lead to a bunch of players heading for Zululand, Amatonga and Basutoland. One possibility is to drop Amatongaland. Ok, as I type I'm steering for this gameplay objective. Thoughts?
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Re: South Africa 1885 Dropping standard GP? p.4

Postby Raskholnikov on Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:33 am

I would still use some variant of the Groot Trek, and have as objective conquering the Western Cape (its point of departure) and the South African Republic (main area of new settlements) PLUS all Groot Trek in-between stations. This would bring in a historical element and would also explain the birth of modern-day South Africa without taking anything away from the really beautiful map you've done so far.
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Re: South Africa 1885 Dropping standard GP? p.4

Postby jefjef on Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:48 am

How about hold all ports and Pretoria + ? for the win? You hold all that in RL and you own South Africa.
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Re: South Africa 1885 Update 11/23 p. 3

Postby natty dread on Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:57 am

Industrial Helix wrote:Natty - Ok, I'll take note of that. Do you think the same thing about the mountains applies to Wars of German and Italian Unification or is it just this map?


I took a peek at those map, and I'd say no. At those maps, the mountains actually work. I think it's because in those maps, the continent colours are solid, and not just outlines drawn to the borders of the areas. Here, when the colour intrudes on to the mountains, it makes them look flat and ... not mountain-like. Colouring the inside of the mountains with grey should fix this, adding more depth to the mountains = making them look like ... well, mountains ;)
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Re: South Africa 1885 Dropping standard GP? p.4

Postby isaiah40 on Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:42 am

Okay, suggestion. Could you instead of having the bonus outline color run through the mountains, just make the outline stop at the mountains? The mountains are dividing some of the bonuses anyways so you could just outline the bonus up to the mountains and continue on the opposite end of the mountains. This way it would preserve the mountains as they look good for the time era. For example, West Cape, use the color along the coast then the border with East Cape but stop at the mountains. Then go over to Piquetburg and start the outline again.

Secondly, Does Frnkfort and New Castle connect? It is a little hard to tell, it looks like they don't but at first glance they look like they do. Maybe add in a couple more mountains there would be good. Also Buthabuthe and Winburg, that is an open area correct?

That's it for now, I don't see why we couldn't get the Draft Stamp out and stamp it! ;)
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Re: South Africa 1885 Dropping standard GP? p.4

Postby Evil DIMwit on Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:15 pm

jefjef wrote:How about hold all ports and Pretoria + ? for the win? You hold all that in RL and you own South Africa.


Sounds like a really good idea, but not if the ports all connect to each other.
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Re: South Africa 1885 Dropping standard GP? p.4

Postby ender516 on Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:53 pm

If the anchors still don't seem to suit the style of the map (and I think they don't quite), perhaps, to match the font, they should be given an italic-like slant and look more hand-drawn, like a notation made by the owner of the map.
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Re: South Africa 1885 Dropping standard GP? p.4

Postby Industrial Helix on Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:06 am

As for the graphical suggestions... I'll keep note of them before posting the next graphics version. Thanks!

The thing I don't like about holding all ports plus Pretoria is, a) all the ports connect. b) I think it takes away from the historical situation of these warring states of South Africa. I kind of think that the map should be about conquering the states of South Africa as the various wars in the region of the period were about. I'm not 100% sold on the idea though, so there's definitely room for discussion... thoughts?
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