South Africa 1885

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Re: South Africa 1885 Update 11/23 p. 3

Postby natty dread on Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:01 pm

Very nice. I can't think of anything I'd change for now...

Well, the mountains could still use some blurring of the edges at some places. Perhaps adding a slight drop shadow on the mountains could make them look better?

Or, color the insides of the mountains with light grey to make them look more solid... right now, the bonus area colours overlap with the mountains, and that just seems wrong to my eye, somehow.
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Re: South Africa 1885 Update 11/23 p. 3

Postby captainwalrus on Mon Nov 23, 2009 5:11 pm

Why is stellaland split into three? Those three combined are smaller than some other single territories, why not just combine them and lower the bonus?
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Re: South Africa 1885 Update 11/23 p. 3

Postby Industrial Helix on Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:19 am

Natty - Ok, I'll take note of that. Do you think the same thing about the mountains applies to Wars of German and Italian Unification or is it just this map?

Cap'n - Well, I really don't want a whole bunch of tiny one and two terr bonuses and I tried to limit them where possible... so it arises out of that.

General Statement.

I think I want to steer this map away from standard gameplay and go for something different without getting too complex. I'm just not sure what exactly I thought I might pick the brains of the foundry to see what you guys might have.

Die Groot Trek was an interesting idea but I don't think it encompasses the whole of the map so it kind of doesn't work.

I was thinking something like conquer two or three of the areas for the win but I'm afraid it might lead to a bunch of players heading for Zululand, Amatonga and Basutoland. One possibility is to drop Amatongaland. Ok, as I type I'm steering for this gameplay objective. Thoughts?
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Re: South Africa 1885 Dropping standard GP? p.4

Postby Raskholnikov on Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:33 am

I would still use some variant of the Groot Trek, and have as objective conquering the Western Cape (its point of departure) and the South African Republic (main area of new settlements) PLUS all Groot Trek in-between stations. This would bring in a historical element and would also explain the birth of modern-day South Africa without taking anything away from the really beautiful map you've done so far.
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Re: South Africa 1885 Dropping standard GP? p.4

Postby jefjef on Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:48 am

How about hold all ports and Pretoria + ? for the win? You hold all that in RL and you own South Africa.
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Re: South Africa 1885 Update 11/23 p. 3

Postby natty dread on Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:57 am

Industrial Helix wrote:Natty - Ok, I'll take note of that. Do you think the same thing about the mountains applies to Wars of German and Italian Unification or is it just this map?


I took a peek at those map, and I'd say no. At those maps, the mountains actually work. I think it's because in those maps, the continent colours are solid, and not just outlines drawn to the borders of the areas. Here, when the colour intrudes on to the mountains, it makes them look flat and ... not mountain-like. Colouring the inside of the mountains with grey should fix this, adding more depth to the mountains = making them look like ... well, mountains ;)
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Re: South Africa 1885 Dropping standard GP? p.4

Postby isaiah40 on Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:42 am

Okay, suggestion. Could you instead of having the bonus outline color run through the mountains, just make the outline stop at the mountains? The mountains are dividing some of the bonuses anyways so you could just outline the bonus up to the mountains and continue on the opposite end of the mountains. This way it would preserve the mountains as they look good for the time era. For example, West Cape, use the color along the coast then the border with East Cape but stop at the mountains. Then go over to Piquetburg and start the outline again.

Secondly, Does Frnkfort and New Castle connect? It is a little hard to tell, it looks like they don't but at first glance they look like they do. Maybe add in a couple more mountains there would be good. Also Buthabuthe and Winburg, that is an open area correct?

That's it for now, I don't see why we couldn't get the Draft Stamp out and stamp it! ;)
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Re: South Africa 1885 Dropping standard GP? p.4

Postby Evil DIMwit on Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:15 pm

jefjef wrote:How about hold all ports and Pretoria + ? for the win? You hold all that in RL and you own South Africa.


Sounds like a really good idea, but not if the ports all connect to each other.
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Re: South Africa 1885 Dropping standard GP? p.4

Postby ender516 on Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:53 pm

If the anchors still don't seem to suit the style of the map (and I think they don't quite), perhaps, to match the font, they should be given an italic-like slant and look more hand-drawn, like a notation made by the owner of the map.
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Re: South Africa 1885 Dropping standard GP? p.4

Postby Industrial Helix on Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:06 am

As for the graphical suggestions... I'll keep note of them before posting the next graphics version. Thanks!

The thing I don't like about holding all ports plus Pretoria is, a) all the ports connect. b) I think it takes away from the historical situation of these warring states of South Africa. I kind of think that the map should be about conquering the states of South Africa as the various wars in the region of the period were about. I'm not 100% sold on the idea though, so there's definitely room for discussion... thoughts?
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Re: South Africa 1885 Dropping standard GP? p.4

Postby jefjef on Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:11 am

Well objective maps are swell and everything but personally I like standard play maps the best. I prefer to eliminate and destroy than just capture to win.

The only real objectives you have here are the ports. Pretoria is a major region. You would need to also designate more terts if you really want an objective type map.
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Re: South Africa 1885 Dropping standard GP? p.4

Postby Industrial Helix on Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:30 am

See, while I prefer standard gameplay maps I kind of think there's a bias against them in the foundry right now and long term members of the foundry are sick of seeing them. They're making the call for maps with unique gameplay and it sounds like a decent challenge and this map is relatively young still.

I think conquer any three states would be a good objective because it keeps the conquer and destroy style of a standard gameplay while offering a semi-different dynamic. Kind of like Europe 1914.
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Re: South Africa 1885 Dropping standard GP? p.4

Postby AndyDufresne on Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am

Industrial Helix wrote:See, while I prefer standard gameplay maps I kind of think there's a bias against them in the foundry right now and long term members of the foundry are sick of seeing them. They're making the call for maps with unique gameplay and it sounds like a decent challenge and this map is relatively young still.

I think conquer any three states would be a good objective because it keeps the conquer and destroy style of a standard gameplay while offering a semi-different dynamic. Kind of like Europe 1914.

I think this map can easily stand without any objectives. It has a unique geographic area, in addition to a unique style of graphics.


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Re: South Africa 1885 Dropping standard GP? p.4

Postby jefjef on Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:46 am

I agree with Andy.

But If you really want an objective of holding bonus regions you would have to add connects I've suggested to Stellaland and code that single bonus region as a large Neutral.

Or I spose you could designate 3 specific regions to hold instead of 3 random ones.
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Re: South Africa 1885 Dropping standard GP? p.4

Postby Peter the Leper on Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:10 pm

Hi, just wrote sum, but lost it all, wasnt logged in when i submitted... :cry:

Anyway, the map looks good, with a feeling of freshness - i can even feel the breeze and smell the oceans salty spray...

Dont think Pretoria is too strong as it has seven fronts to defend...

One or two passes might be good, and realistic, but maybe subtle, barely discernible, requiring a good look 2 spot ? ...i can search for some maps showing their locations if u wish - ?

The Cape, or "Cinderella", as we have s/times called her has always played a significant role in our history - at the time of this map it was the British stronghold, much as the Transvaal was the enemy or Boer Citadel and any route north had to be either through some part of the Cape. The alternate route, though used/tried was impractical due to the arid conditions of desert and semi-desert areas. The Northern Cape is a bit of a 'Wasteland', yet fertile still. The real waste lies north of the Cape Province and west of the Transvaal and northern free state, which is the Namib and Kalahari deserts.
The Wars fought at this time were some with such tribes as the Zulu, Sotho and Xhosa, and of course the Anglo-Boer Wars and the borders reflected in the map are largley those of the two participants, the English and Boer.

These borders were the result of the trek which had begun +- 50 yrs before when the Republics shown here were still in their dreamtime, the trek could better be a seperate map, maybe similar to Route 66?
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Re: South Africa 1885 Dropping standard GP? p.4

Postby Industrial Helix on Sun Nov 29, 2009 10:36 am

Thanks for the history lesson Ahuatl, it kind of sheds some light on some of the areas of the map.

To me this map serves as a precursor to the Union of South Africa and it reflects the tumultuous times before the British finally emerged as the dominant player in the region. I dunno, perhaps the standard gameplay of conquer would be adequate for this map. I think Andy makes a good point in saying its unique enough in gameplay and location.... I mean we have Egypt, Madagascar and Africa which address the continent of Africa.
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Re: South Africa 1885 Dropping standard GP? p.4

Postby captainwalrus on Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:47 pm

Yeah, I kindda think standard is the way to go. A map doesn't need to have fancey bells and whistles in order to be unique.
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Re: South Africa 1885 Dropping standard GP? p.4

Postby Industrial Helix on Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:29 pm

Ok, made a few of the graphical suggestions on the map.

I dropped the sea from the legend and I'm not sure if I like it.

I also moved the borders inside the mountains and I don't know how I feel about it... it looks good on the cape colonies but places like Basutoland just aren't all that cool. I'm going to give it some time before I decide on what to do.
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Re: South Africa 1885 Update p. 5

Postby Industrial Helix on Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:01 pm

I was wondering why nobody was commenting on this... I forgot to post the image...


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Re: South Africa 1885 Update p. 5

Postby natty dread on Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:55 am

Looks good. But the anchors are still kinda out of place. Make them thicker, so it looks like they're drawn with the same pen as the other lines.

The mountains look better now, although you could smooth them a bit in some places, there's some pixelation showing.

Also there's still some colour going over the mountain in the south. Could you make it so that the colour border goes around the mountain like you've done elsewhere? I realize there's not much space there, but it's better that the colour goes over the territory names than on the mountains.
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Re: South Africa 1885 Update p. 5

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:31 am

If you are disliking the legend---you can try to differentiate it a little more---I.E. darken/lighten the non-playable area so it doesn't just bleed outside of the box containing it into the gameboard non-playable area. You can always try to spruce up the visuals of the legend, a more decorative border (though I think the relatively simplistic style you have now is working pretty well).

The title seems out of place---probably because everything else is "drawn" while it feels like an image pasted. Why not try a line drawing of the shield and spears? Something more simplistic/minimalist might work better.


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Re: South Africa 1885 Update p. 5

Postby jefjef on Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:58 pm

Just drop the legend box. Have it as a drawing instead of an insert.

Andy is correct for sure on the title.

Amatongaland might oughta be worth 2 considering all the port connections.
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Re: South Africa 1885 Update p. 5

Postby lt_oddball on Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:35 am

I like the map choice.
Have to look into detail lateron.

For now I only have a problem with the thick stift colours in combination with the handwritten font.
Makes it sometimes illegible.
But I'm sure that is something for later.

Also I think some territories are a bit small..
You mentioned you find this map "too cluttered", then think about merging the smallest territories into others..
(Thaba, natal , motito are particularly tiny)
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Re: South Africa 1885 Update p. 5

Postby Industrial Helix on Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:06 pm

Thought I'd give this thread a bump.

How does everyone feel about cutting some territories and making this a smaller map?

I'm think removing 1-2 territories from Natal and The Orange Free State and pulling Malmesbury from West Cape.

Either way, I don't think this map can past the Melting Pot until 13 Colonies is quenched... but it would be nice to get it in shape while we're waiting.
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Re: South Africa 1885 Update p. 5

Postby natty dread on Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:01 pm

Nooo, there are plenty of small maps already...

Although it might work as well. But if you need to cut back territories I'd rather suggest merging Stellaland.
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