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Re: RAIL ASIA [21.2.12] V28-P23 Final adjustments

Postby cairnswk on Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:37 pm

DiM wrote:
cairnswk wrote:for the blurry lines, i have to question this, because if i zoom in at 240-300%, they are all bloody blurry. so is a player going to even notice this anyway. i mean can you notice this at normal 100% vision, because i can't.


i can notice them at 100% zoom on your small map and my eyes aren't what they used to be.
i merely put zoomed in images for people to know what i'm talking about.

here is a non-zoomed image:
Image

look at the line above KBL. it is clean and crisp no blur whatsoever. it's perfect. and there are several more like it.
now compare it with the line:
-bellow khi
-bellow and above ker
-bellow isl
-between j and k

see what i mean?


No Dim, i can't see what you're seeing. The lines in the software are perfectly straight and as i said it must be in the translation if you say they are there. My eyes aren't what they used to be either!
Unfortunately i have no answer for how to fix this.
PS: if i turn the anti-aliasing off when exporting the image, it makes the lines more vector-like, but also everything else becomes pixelated and jaggered, and i'm sure we wouldn't want that.
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Re: RAIL ASIA [21.2.12] V28-P23 Final adjustments

Postby cairnswk on Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:54 pm

Apparently from what i've just found out, my version Coreldraw X4 doesn't have object hinting as a feature, but X5 does.
Anyone got an extra $300 they want to part with to fix the export issue here because unfortunately i don't have it.
So it will have to remain an issue and proceed without it.
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Re: RAIL ASIA [21.2.12] V28-P23 Final adjustments

Postby DiM on Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:00 pm

cairnswk wrote:Apparently from what i've just found out, my version Coreldraw X4 doesn't have object hinting as a feature, but X5 does.
Anyone got an extra $300 they want to part with to fix the export issue here because unfortunately i don't have it.
So it will have to remain an issue and proceed without it.



anyone has an extra $999 so i can get cs5 extended?
apparently my mspaint doesn't have any of the features found in photoshop.
oh well, it will have to remain an issue and i'll have to make maps in mspaint. :roll:

that's what your post sounds like. you don't need hinting you just need patience, zooming and the moving tool. simply zoom in at a pixel level and move your boxes until they're perfectly aligned.

if there's a solution (even if it's not the easiest) then you can surely do it.
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Re: RAIL ASIA [21.2.12] V28-P23 Final adjustments

Postby cairnswk on Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:08 pm

DiM wrote:
cairnswk wrote:Apparently from what i've just found out, my version Coreldraw X4 doesn't have object hinting as a feature, but X5 does.
Anyone got an extra $300 they want to part with to fix the export issue here because unfortunately i don't have it.
So it will have to remain an issue and proceed without it.

...
simply zoom in at a pixel level and move your boxes until they're perfectly aligned.
...

and i am sorry Dim, but i have already done that with the griding suggested by natty.
object hinting does fix the problem for straight lines only, but i am not going to spend any more time trying to fix some small blurry lines that probably won't even be noticed simply because my software doesn't have a facility that is more modern.
You'll just have to get over it. :twisted:
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Re: RAIL ASIA [21.2.12] V28-P23 Final adjustments

Postby DiM on Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:18 pm

cairnswk wrote:
DiM wrote:
cairnswk wrote:Apparently from what i've just found out, my version Coreldraw X4 doesn't have object hinting as a feature, but X5 does.
Anyone got an extra $300 they want to part with to fix the export issue here because unfortunately i don't have it.
So it will have to remain an issue and proceed without it.

...
simply zoom in at a pixel level and move your boxes until they're perfectly aligned.
...

and i am sorry Dim, but i have already done that with the griding suggested by natty.
object hinting does fix the problem for straight lines only, but i am not going to spend any more time trying to fix some small blurry lines that probably won't even be noticed simply because my software doesn't have a facility that is more modern.
You'll just have to get over it. :twisted:



no cairns i won't have to get over it.
it's written clearly in the rules that pixelation/blur is unacceptable. just because you haven't found a solution is not a reason to ignore the rules.
not only will this set a bad precedent but it will also give a crappy lesson to all new map makers who are supposed to look at the veterans and learn.

what would the lesson be here? if you can't do something just ignore the rules and tell people to get over it?
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Re: RAIL ASIA [21.2.12] V28-P23 Final adjustments

Postby cairnswk on Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:35 pm

DiM wrote:
cairnswk wrote:
DiM wrote:
cairnswk wrote:Apparently from what i've just found out, my version Coreldraw X4 doesn't have object hinting as a feature, but X5 does.
Anyone got an extra $300 they want to part with to fix the export issue here because unfortunately i don't have it.
So it will have to remain an issue and proceed without it.

...
simply zoom in at a pixel level and move your boxes until they're perfectly aligned.
...

and i am sorry Dim, but i have already done that with the griding suggested by natty.
object hinting does fix the problem for straight lines only, but i am not going to spend any more time trying to fix some small blurry lines that probably won't even be noticed simply because my software doesn't have a facility that is more modern.
You'll just have to get over it. :twisted:



no cairns i won't have to get over it.
it's written clearly in the rules that pixelation/blur is unacceptable. just because you haven't found a solution is not a reason to ignore the rules.
not only will this set a bad precedent but it will also give a crappy lesson to all new map makers who are supposed to look at the veterans and learn.

what would the lesson be here? if you can't do something just ignore the rules and tell people to get over it?


most likely new mapmakers wouldn't even find this issue you're on about, since if my maps are so unpopular as you pronounce, they wouldn't come in here to look for "issues"
i will ignore the rules when the rules don't provide for situations such as this, where i have made an attempt to correct the issue, but the problem remains in the translation in the software.
as i said get over it, and move on, but most likely you'll not move on, I seem to really bug you, dim don't i.
Because you can't stand to lose an argument.
you know that every map is not perfect, even your own pieces of tripe that you roll out.
as i said got over and move on.
btw, you are now on ignore foe, so please don't bother posting as i won't be reading them.
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Re: RAIL ASIA [21.2.12] V28-P23 Final adjustments

Postby DiM on Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:40 pm

cairnswk wrote:btw, you are now on ignore foe, so please don't bother posting as i won't be reading them.


great. another priceless lesson for all mapmakers.
when somebody posts something you don't like put him on ignore and you're fine.
good strategy. if you pair this with ignoring the rules cause you can't find a method to fix the graphical issues you got yourself the easiest way to make maps.

something is wrong with the map and doesn't follow the rules? no problem i'll ignore the rulles and tell people to get over it.
they won't get over it? again, no problem. i'll just put them on foe and ignore their post.
=D>
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Re: RAIL ASIA [23.2.12] V29-P24 Final adjustments

Postby cairnswk on Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:55 am

Files deleted and re-posted below.
Last edited by cairnswk on Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Re: RAIL ASIA [23.2.12] V29-P24 Final adjustments

Postby DiM on Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:36 am

it looks like you fixed some but messed up others:

the line above CHN is crisp, while the one above MBA is blurry
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Re: RAIL ASIA [23.2.12] V29-P24 Final adjustments

Postby cairnswk on Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:45 am

Version 29.

All stations have been redone yet again.

...

Files deleted and moved next page.
Last edited by cairnswk on Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: RAIL ASIA [23.2.12] V29-P24 Final adjustments

Postby DiM on Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:56 am

cairnswk wrote:Version 29.

All stations have been redone yet again.



are you sure you haven't reposted the same images by mistake? the ones you have now are completely identical pixel to pixel with the ones you removed.
the "old" image ..... the "new" image
Image Image


PS: cleared my cache several times.
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Re: RAIL ASIA [23.2.12] V29-P24 Final adjustments

Postby Dibbler on Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:31 am

The colours of the lines for the B and J appear to be reversed in the new version for station MHD. The B should be grey and the J Brown.
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Re: RAIL ASIA [23.2.12] V29-P24 Final adjustments

Postby Gilligan on Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:55 am

DiM wrote:
cairnswk wrote:Version 29.

All stations have been redone yet again.



are you sure you haven't reposted the same images by mistake? the ones you have now are completely identical pixel to pixel with the ones you removed.
the "old" image ..... the "new" image
Image Image


PS: cleared my cache several times.


I don't see any difference 8-[
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Re: RAIL ASIA [23.2.12] V29-P24 Final adjustments

Postby DiM on Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:34 am

Gilligan wrote:
DiM wrote:
cairnswk wrote:Version 29.

All stations have been redone yet again.



are you sure you haven't reposted the same images by mistake? the ones you have now are completely identical pixel to pixel with the ones you removed.
the "old" image ..... the "new" image
Image Image

PS: cleared my cache several times.


I don't see any difference 8-[


that's the point. cairns said he redid the images and yet they're the same.
Last edited by DiM on Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: RAIL ASIA [23.2.12] V29-P24 Final adjustments

Postby Gilligan on Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:38 am

Might I also add that I think it looks okay? I see nothing wrong with it. You really need to stare at it to notice anything wrong, and even then...
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Re: Re: RAIL ASIA [23.2.12] V29-P24 Final adjustments

Postby ender516 on Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:51 pm

I can see the issue that DiM is raising. I'm not sure that it bothers me a lot, but I am surprised that some lines can be made crisp and others stay blurry. I wonder if it is not just the positioning of the lines as natty suggested, but also the size of the boxes. I mean, if a box is actually 40.3 pixels tall, then no matter how you align it, you won't get the top and bottom both looking sharp, so maybe the answer is to reposition the boxes so that the top line is on a grid and clear, then resize them also on the grid.
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Re: RAIL ASIA [23.2.12] V29-P24 Final adjustments

Postby cairnswk on Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:52 pm

Dibbler wrote:The colours of the lines for the B and J appear to be reversed in the new version for station MHD. The B should be grey and the J Brown.

Thanks Dibbler, i have adjusted that and will upload shortly.
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Re: RAIL ASIA [23.2.12] V29-P24 Final adjustments

Postby cairnswk on Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:27 pm

Last edited by cairnswk on Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Re: RAIL ASIA [23.2.12] V29-P24 Final adjustments

Postby thenobodies80 on Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:31 am

cairnswk gave me the original file. There's nothing wrong with it and like I said him I was right about where the problem was. Simply when saved as png, the lines change with the softare he uses.
So there's no way for him to fix this issue except export the file in PS, draw the station from the scratch and save the file as png.
Personally i don't think that those lines are a big issue, so it's up to the foundry people to say if it's a big issue or not.
Cairsnwk, if you're willing to fix it let me know and i tell you a quick way to do that with PS ;)

If someone thinks I'm telling something not true about his original file this is a screenshot:

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Re: RAIL ASIA [23.2.12] V29-P24 Final adjustments

Postby natty dread on Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:56 am

How about this:

- export the map image without stations
- export each different station into a separate image with transparent background
- then add the stations as bitmaps in PS on top of the map image without stations - problem solved, all stations will be 100% identical.
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Re: Re: RAIL ASIA [23.2.12] V29-P24 Final adjustments

Postby thenobodies80 on Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:12 pm

yes exactly ;)
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Re: RAIL ASIA [23.2.12] V29-P24 Final adjustments

Postby cairnswk on Sat Feb 25, 2012 2:36 pm

Image

Firstly, tnb80, thank-you for comfirming what i was saying about the Coreldraw export process, and thank-you for trying this.
natty, thank you for your attempted solution.

The above image is the test result of your process for the BGW and RUH stations only.
1. i exported the ovcerall image to PS.
2. i exported BGW complete station (with dome) to PS and placed the station on above image.
3. i exported the RUH station only as uncompressed vector no anti-aliasing and placed it on map - certainly the quality of the lines improves. :)
4. the whole image was then saved as the above png file.

Part three might improve the lines of the station tested, but unless i redraw the entire map in psd, i see no point to this process. I am not prepared to do rework for the sake of what a handful of people say are a couple of blurry lines (which won't be examined closely anyway), The artwork in the big station alone will not be improved by this export process, and the text would have to be redone ontop of psd image again. I beleive that double exporting of an image can only reduce its quality further. I don't think this process is retaining the overall integrity of the image simply exported from CD in the first place..

I agree with tnb80, that the lines are adequate given i have made two attempts to improve them to the best.
So at this stage, i am not prepared to go through this process. Sorry guys.

If i acquire the new Coreldraw X5 (which has hinting) in the future, i would be most happy to resumbit the new files for approval and upload. :)
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Re: Re: RAIL ASIA [23.2.12] V29-P24 Final adjustments

Postby DiM on Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:21 pm

Image
the one in the middle looks perfect. a million times better than any other station. whatever you did is the solution.
do them all like that.
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Re: Re: RAIL ASIA [23.2.12] V29-P24 Final adjustments

Postby natty dread on Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:43 pm

I agree, that looks good.
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Re: RAIL ASIA [23.2.12] V29-P24 Final adjustments

Postby cairnswk on Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:41 am

Version 30 Small and Large

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