Re: RAIL ASIA [1.11.12] QUENCHED

[cairnswk]

Version 10
1. New line from MHD to ATY
2. New line from TLV to IST
3. two new motorised carts placed

[cairnswk]

I've also just added a line in China from BJN <-> SHG <-> HKG
i look at this and thought it would be absurd that a line didn't exist between thos three big cities.

[cairnswk]

[ender516]

Yes, that addition makes a lot of sense. That is Beijing, Shanghai and Hong Kong, correct? I imagine that would be an extremely busy corridor.

Question: Does SAP only connect via ferry with VST-D and not VST-C? If so, perhaps the ferry route should be coloured like the SHG - KAG route. If not, and SAP connects to both VST stations, perhaps the ferry route should fork and show all three colours.

[cairnswk]

Yes, that addition makes a lot of sense. That is Beijing, Shanghai and Hong Kong, correct? I imagine that would be an extremely busy corridor.

Question: Does SAP only connect via ferry with VST-D and not VST-C? If so, perhaps the ferry route should be coloured like the SHG - KAG route. If not, and SAP connects to both VST stations, perhaps the ferry route should fork and show all three colours.

Thanks ender516 for that comment.
You've raised an good issue there about the Vladivostok connection...
So i have followed your hint and allowed two connections there, something slightly different from other rail maps.
Please f5 to see the chage in the above V11.

[TaCktiX]

You've done a lot of Rail maps Cairns, and it's showing. My only clarity complaint right now is the fact that the DSH and TBS bonuses are mentioned by full name in the legend, with nothing equating the abbreviation to the full name. It normally wouldn't be that big a deal, but you've got a LOT of bonuses in this one, rivaling Rail Europe easily.

[cairnswk]

You've done a lot of Rail maps Cairns, and it's showing.

Thanks TaCktiX. i hope that means this looks better.

[/quote]My only clarity complaint right now is the fact that the DSH and TBS bonuses are mentioned by full name in the legend, with nothing equating the abbreviation to the full name. It normally wouldn't be that big a deal, but you've got a LOT of bonuses in this one, rivaling Rail Europe easily.[/quote]
Understood. Adjusted for next version 12

[MarshalNey]

OK, first thing is your first post- it needs upadating! I realize sometimes the rate of updating seems worse than Microsoft Windows, but it really saves a ton of time.

The second thing is that this map looks sweet! I'm very glad that you have 2 stations here and that they are smaller- it opens up the strategic options.

As for the breakdown, here's what I have, please correct me if I made an error (as I am wont to do):
+2 Bonuses

Rail E: 4 regions, 2 borders
Rail F: 4 regions, 2 borders
Rail G: 6 regions, 2 borders
Rail L: 5 regions, 2 borders
Rail M:3 regions, 2 borders

+3 Bonuses

Rail H: 5 regions, 4 borders
Rail I: 5 regions, 3 borders
Rail J: 7 regions, 3 borders
Tblisi Station: 4 regions, 4 borders

+4 Bonuses

Rail C: 5 regions, 4 borders
Rail K: 7 regions, 4 borders
Dushanbe Station: 5 regions, 5 borders

+5 Bonuses

Rail A: 7 regions, 4 borders
Rail B: 8 regions, 4 borders

+11 Bonus

Rail D: 14 regions, 8 borders

77 total regions, 4 neutral (MNL-M, PSD-F (?), TYO-E, TAF-H)

73 total deployable regions
2p & 3p = 24 each, 1 neutral
4p (dubs)= 18 each, 1 neutral
5p = 14 each, 3 neutral
6p (dubs, trips)= 12 each, 1 neutral
7p = 10 each, 3 neutral
8p (dubs, trips, quads)= 9 each, 1 neutral

If this looks correct, please copy and paste into your 1st post.

After digesting these figures, I have the following recommendations:

Rail M bonus lowered from +2 to +1
Rail G bonus raised from +2 to +3, and one extra border added
Rail H bonus raised from +3 to +4
Rail J bonus raised from +3 to +4 and one extra border added
Rail K bonus raised from +4 to +5
... and then there's the Rail D bonus. It's a white elephant, even worse than Asia in Classic. Nobody but nobody is going to collect this bonus until the game is decided already in their favor. Yet, you already have more than enough bonuses, so splitting it up doesn't look like a good idea. You could palm some of its regions off to other rails maybe, but this would only make the other rails non-viable while not really helping Rail D significantly. In light of the fact that the number of total deployable regions on the map is a very unfavorable number, I would be inclined to recommend that you chop out some of the stations in Rail D... but that's just my first thought and any other idea that might reasonably reduce the borders of this bonus would be welcome.

As for your neutrals... they could be moved to better spots to prevent dropping bonuses. The most obvious move to me is the neutral on the F-Rail. Move it to Tblisi Station, since that's a very droppable bonus at the moment and needs a neutral. Thus two birds with one stone.

The second thing that I would do with the neutrals is to get rid of the neutral on Rail H. It's not needed... if it turns out that you need the neutral for your total region count to be a golden number, move it to Rail L.

Finally, as mentioned earlier the total number of deployable regions for this map (73 regions) is a non-golden (one might say black) number. Some adjustments need to be made to either increase or decrease it to a golden number.

-- Marshal Ney

P.S. I didn't give a rationale for my suggestions for raising or lowering the bonuses (other than Rail D), but if one compares the values between like rails, most of them are self-explanatory. Rail M is too good of a deal for +2... I think that a bonus should not be both easy and more efficient than larger bonuses; rather a small bonus should be a tradeoff (easier to take and hold, but less efficient). Otherwise it dominates the strategy disproportionately.

[cairnswk]

From Sully / From MarshalNey / Decision

• Russian (A): +4 or +5 / Rail A: 7 regions, 4 borders + 5 / +5
• The Stanz (B): +4 / Rail B: 8 regions, 4 borders +5 / +5
• Siberian (C): +4 / Rail C: 5 regions, 4 borders +4 / +4
• Chinese (D): +10 / Rail D: 14 regions, 8 borders +11 / +11
• Japanese (E): +2 / Rail E: 4 regions, 2 borders +2 / +2
• Ottoman (F): +2 / Rail F: 4 regions, 2 borders +2 / +2
• Arabian (G): +2 / Rail G: 6 regions, 2 borders +2 / +2
• Iranian (H): +3 / Rail H: 5 regions, 4 borders +3 / +3
• Pakistani (I): +3 / Rail I: 5 regions, 3 borders +3 / +3
• Indian (J): +4 / Rail J: 7 regions, 3 borders +3 / +4
• Southeast Asian (K): +5 / Rail K: 7 regions, 4 borders +4 / +4
• Indonesian (L): +2 / Rail L: 5 regions, 2 borders +2 / +2
• Philippino (M): +1 / Rail M:3 regions, 2 borders +2 / +2
• All Yerevan: +3 / Tblisi Station: 4 regions, 4 borders +3 / +3
• All Dushanbe: +4 √ Dushanbe Station: 5 regions, 5 borders +4 / +4

77 total regions, 4 neutral (MNL-M, PSD-F (?), TYO-E, TAF-H)

I count 73 regions plus 4 neutrals - correct
I'll add more shortly about those other changes.

[Victor Sullivan]

Both Marshal and I suggested M's decrease to +1. I think it's a valid concern that a bonus of +2 would be too high for it's borders, territory count, position, and expansion opportunities (i.e. L - Indonesian).

-Sully

[cairnswk]

Both Marshal and I suggested M's decrease to +1. I think it's a valid concern that a bonus of +2 would be too high for it's borders, territory count, position, and expansion opportunities (i.e. L - Indonesian).

-Sully

Yeh, thanks Sully, i haven't got down to bottom half of that post that why i put

I'll add more shortly about those other changes.

[Victor Sullivan]

Oh, okay, gotcha

-Sully

[cairnswk]

...

After digesting these figures, I have the following recommendations:

... and then there's the Rail D bonus. It's a white elephant, even worse than Asia in Classic. Nobody but nobody is going to collect this bonus until the game is decided already in their favor. Yet, you already have more than enough bonuses, so splitting it up doesn't look like a good idea. You could palm some of its regions off to other rails maybe, but this would only make the other rails non-viable while not really helping Rail D significantly. In light of the fact that the number of total deployable regions on the map is a very unfavorable number, I would be inclined to recommend that you chop out some of the stations in Rail D... but that's just my first thought and any other idea that might reasonably reduce the borders of this bonus would be welcome.

As for your neutrals... they could be moved to better spots to prevent dropping bonuses. The most obvious move to me is the neutral on the F-Rail. Move it to Tblisi Station, since that's a very droppable bonus at the moment and needs a neutral. Thus two birds with one stone.

The second thing that I would do with the neutrals is to get rid of the neutral on Rail H. It's not needed... if it turns out that you need the neutral for your total region count to be a golden number, move it to Rail L.

Finally, as mentioned earlier the total number of deployable regions for this map (73 regions) is a non-golden (one might say black) number. Some adjustments need to be made to either increase or decrease it to a golden number.

-- Marshal Ney

P.S. I didn't give a rationale for my suggestions for raising or lowering the bonuses (other than Rail D), but if one compares the values between like rails, most of them are self-explanatory. Rail M is too good of a deal for +2... I think that a bonus should not be both easy and more efficient than larger bonuses; rather a small bonus should be a tradeoff (easier to take and hold, but less efficient). Otherwise it dominates the strategy disproportionately.

Here is my solution for Rail D
It's still a large bonus, but it now gives 82 regions so only to have to start neutral to get the 80 golden number.
I'll get back to the other side adjustment like M shortly...need some more sleep.

Version 11.

Click image to enlarge.

[Victor Sullivan]

Looks good, though I'd reduce Beijing's bonus to +5.

-Sully

[cairnswk]

MarshalNey wrote:...

P.S. I didn't give a rationale for my suggestions for raising or lowering the bonuses (other than Rail D), but if one compares the values between like rails, most of them are self-explanatory. Rail M is too good of a deal for +2... I think that a bonus should not be both easy and more efficient than larger bonuses; rather a small bonus should be a tradeoff (easier to take and hold, but less efficient). Otherwise it dominates the strategy disproportionately.



My side of the coin for Rail M being +2 is that it still have two borders to defend therefore if the player who gets that railway is to defend it, they need one each side to continue to hold it, the same with Indonesia and Japan, and it backs onto that large Southern Chinese Rail.

After digesting these figures, I have the following recommendations:
Rail M bonus lowered from +2 to +1


I'd like to keep the +2

Not sure what you mean with the "and one extra border added" - do you want another border added in order to justify the bonus?

Rail G bonus raised from +2 to +3, and one extra border added


Now Rail I Arabian - Done

Rail J bonus raised from +3 to +4 and one extra border added


Now Rail L Indian - Done

Rail H bonus raised from +3 to +4


Now Rail J Iranian - Done

Rail K bonus raised from +4 to +5


Now Rail M SE Asia - Done

The second thing that I would do with the neutrals is to get rid of the neutral on Rail H. It's not needed... if it turns out that you need the neutral for your total region count to be a golden number, move it to Rail L.


I don't think there are any need for neutrals now

Finally, as mentioned earlier the total number of deployable regions for this map (73 regions) is a non-golden (one might say black) number. Some adjustments need to be made to either increase or decrease it to a golden number.
-- Marshal Ney


Golden number should now be 80, i hope.

Version 12
Beijing D will have to be noted as D1 and D2...not put in yet, but will adjust.
Confirmed in the xml there is now 80 regions.


Version 12

Click image to enlarge.