Salem's Switch V36 [Quenched]

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Re: Salem's Switch [12.9.11] V18-P15 Start Positions?

Postby ender516 on Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:08 pm

The Elizabeth Parris / J Whipple fence is much the same.
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Re: Salem's Switch [12.9.11] V18-P15 Start Positions?

Postby TaCktiX on Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:38 am

Could you copy the Daniel Rae / Benjamin Porter fence style across all of them? That one has terrific definition to it and doesn't get all muddy in single colors.
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Re: Salem's Switch [12.9.11] V18-P15 Start Positions?

Postby ender516 on Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:51 am

That one does seem to have an additional dark glow behind it which improves the contrast. Most of the fences against the gray are fine, but that one is a bit better, and the contrast is what is needed against the colour of the Accusers.
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Re: Salem's Switch [12.9.11] V18-P15 Start Positions?

Postby cairnswk on Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:44 pm

isaiah40 wrote:The fence between William Good and Elizabeth Proctor is very hard to see.


ender516 wrote:The Elizabeth Parris / J Whipple fence is much the same.


Thanks guys, working on solving that issue.

TaCktiX wrote:Could you copy the Daniel Rae / Benjamin Porter fence style across all of them? That one has terrific definition to it and doesn't get all muddy in single colors.


ender516 wrote:That one does seem to have an additional dark glow behind it which improves the contrast. Most of the fences against the gray are fine, but that one is a bit better, and the contrast is what is needed against the colour of the Accusers.


Thanks guys
To be truthful, the DR/BP fence style is on all of them, as it is the brush template used.
But each brush section of the fence (two outside posts plus is distorted and rotated to align with the boundary lines, so this is why it shows up better in some places than in others.
All the others don't have the black drop shadow yet.
Because of the angles, you won't get the same definition of the DR/BP fence on some of the other, but i'll reduce and lengthen remaining sections to see if that helps define them better. :)
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Re: Salem's Switch [13.9.11] V18a-P15 Gameplay-Fences?

Postby cairnswk on Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:27 pm

Version 18a
I have redone the fences:
  • Lot Connant/Henery Herrick
  • Thomas Gage/Dorcas Hoare
  • Blake/Trask-Dodge Grist's Mill
  • Elizabeth Parris/J Whipple is now trees and thicket
  • Parris-Whipple-Putnam/Lewis-Martin-Osbourne
Are these any better before i proceed further?

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Re: Salem's Switch [13.9.11] V18a-P16 Gameplay Fences?

Postby ender516 on Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:12 pm

The trees do make an effective alternative to the fences, by virtue of their contrast. Good choice.

Is Daniel Rae's neighbour's name really Banjamin Porter, or is that a typo?
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Re: Salem's Switch [13.9.11] V18a-P16 Gameplay Fences?

Postby cairnswk on Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:57 pm

ender516 wrote:The trees do make an effective alternative to the fences, by virtue of their contrast. Good choice.

But do the new fences work as mentioned above. :?:

Is Daniel Rae's neighbour's name really Banjamin Porter, or is that a typo?

Typo. Fixed for next version. Thanks. :)
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Re: Salem's Switch [13.9.11] V18a-P16 Gameplay Fences?

Postby isaiah40 on Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:23 pm

cairnswk wrote:
ender516 wrote:The trees do make an effective alternative to the fences, by virtue of their contrast. Good choice.

But do the new fences work as mentioned above. :?:


Except in the legend ;)
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Re: Salem's Switch [13.9.11] V18a-P16 Gameplay Fences?

Postby cairnswk on Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:11 am

isaiah40 wrote:
cairnswk wrote:
ender516 wrote:The trees do make an effective alternative to the fences, by virtue of their contrast. Good choice.

But do the new fences work as mentioned above. :?:


Except in the legend ;)


Ah...hadn't done the legend yhet, and it wasn't mentioned in the above map post of mine as being done. ;)
but thanks for repsonding that you think the others are OK.
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Re: Salem's Switch [13.9.11] V18a-P16 Gameplay Fences?

Postby MarshalNey on Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:21 am

OK, the starting positions look mostly fine, but there's an XML question to which I'll be getting an answer by tomorrow that should clear things up for me.

The XML question involves coding start positions so that bonuses can't be dropped. Right now, the map has 5 Accusers, 7 Accused (2 hanged) and 12 Townsfolk as starting positions if I'm counting correctly. If the positions are left up to random deployment, bonuses could be dropped. By far the most likely bonus to drop will be an Accuser + Accused pair. There's also a very small chance on 2p and 3p games that the townsfolk bonus [7] can be dropped.

However I'm guessing that the start positions won't be random but grouped, however I'm not 100% certain how that works, thus the question that I've PMed out. Once that is answered, I'll know how to proceed.

---------------------

There are however 2 starting positions that need some clarification.

Elizabeth Parris can only attack Rev. Parris, which is shown as neutral 2 instead of 4. Is that a mistake, or is it for the sake of the starting position so that it isn't more 'blocked in' than the others?

Joseph Buxton in the center of the map appears to have no exit. I'm pretty certain that this is a graphical oops with the fence and that he's supposed to be adjacent to the B15 Buggy Stop.

----------------------

Finally, the bonuses for the Reverends and Judges might need a little boost, considering the higher neutral values. I realize that the bombardment capability (particularly with the Judges) and the other bonuses that they factor into will make them attractive, but only for a single; as a group there is very little incentive to them. Therefore I suggest increasing the Reverends bonus (with 16 neutrals to kill) to +4 or +5 (I lean toward the latter), and the Judges bonus (with 20 neutrals to kill) to at least +4, possibly +6.

Finally I think that in light of this being a conquest map, the bonus for the Accused is unattainable, and should probably be either erased entirely or the requirement shrunk. There are 15 Accused I think, and they are spread all over the map. It'll just never happen, except maybe at the very end of the game. Certainly at +5 it's not worth pursuing intentionally (one can only get 10 Accused/Accuser pairs, and if I've got that then who needs the Accused bonus from the 5 extra regions?). Perhaps something like the Landowners here, such as Accused[6] for +3 or some similar ratio that's roughly in line with the Accusers? (the Accusers bonus gives +5 for 10)

-- Marshal Ney
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Re: Salem's Switch [13.9.11] V18a-P16 Gameplay Fences?

Postby cairnswk on Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:40 am

Nice discection MarshalNey. You can visit anytime :P
MarshalNey wrote:OK, the starting positions look mostly fine, but there's an XML question to which I'll be getting an answer by tomorrow that should clear things up for me.

The XML question involves coding start positions so that bonuses can't be dropped. Right now, the map has 5 Accusers, 7 Accused (2 hanged) and 12 Townsfolk as starting positions if I'm counting correctly. If the positions are left up to random deployment, bonuses could be dropped. By far the most likely bonus to drop will be an Accuser + Accused pair. There's also a very small chance on 2p and 3p games that the townsfolk bonus [7] can be dropped.

However I'm guessing that the start positions won't be random but grouped, however I'm not 100% certain how that works, thus the question that I've PMed out. Once that is answered, I'll know how to proceed.


OK.see what your results produce. :)

There are however 2 starting positions that need some clarification...
Joseph Buxton in the center of the map appears to have no exit. I'm pretty certain that this is a graphical oops with the fence and that he's supposed to be adjacent to the B15 Buggy Stop.

My bad, i left a copied fence on his property :oops: ... he has access to B13.

Elizabeth Parris can only attack Rev. Parris, which is shown as neutral 2 instead of 4. Is that a mistake, or is it for the sake of the starting position so that it isn't more 'blocked in' than the others?

No, my bad once again...

Finally, the bonuses for the Reverends and Judges might need a little boost, considering the higher neutral values. I realize that the bombardment capability (particularly with the Judges) and the other bonuses that they factor into will make them attractive, but only for a single; as a group there is very little incentive to them. Therefore I suggest increasing the Reverends bonus (with 16 neutrals to kill) to +4 or +5 (I lean toward the latter), and the Judges bonus (with 20 neutrals to kill) to at least +4, possibly +6.

Understand. the good Reverends, no probs.
But with the judges, there are two starting positions in town. If there is a battle over them and one player wins, that could become an easy bonus to attain even with such a high number of neutrals to conquer. So my question is:
should the judges bonus be made less accessible with a fence between Gedney and Hathorne?


Finally I think that in light of this being a conquest map, the bonus for the Accused is unattainable, and should probably be either erased entirely or the requirement shrunk. There are 15 Accused I think, and they are spread all over the map. It'll just never happen, except maybe at the very end of the game. Certainly at +5 it's not worth pursuing intentionally (one can only get 10 Accused/Accuser pairs, and if I've got that then who needs the Accused bonus from the 5 extra regions?). Perhaps something like the Landowners here, such as Accused[6] for +3 or some similar ratio that's roughly in line with the Accusers? (the Accusers bonus gives +5 for 10)
-- Marshal Ney

I'd be happy to make that a +6/7 to make it worthwhile rather than drop it.
Last edited by cairnswk on Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Salem's Switch [13.9.11] V18a-P16 Gameplay Fences?

Postby TaCktiX on Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:30 am

The change in the fences is good, but several of the connected fences strangely change from white to gray as they change territory. It doesn't look quite right. I would be fine with fully gray fences and fully white fences, but the gray/white we-ran-out-of-paint-for-your-fence setup is odd.
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Re: Salem's Switch [13.9.11] V18a-P16 Gameplay Fences?

Postby ender516 on Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:51 am

cairnswk wrote:
ender516 wrote:The trees do make an effective alternative to the fences, by virtue of their contrast. Good choice.

But do the new fences work as mentioned above. :?:

Sorry, my silence was assent. The fences all look good.

EDIT: I took a close look at the old map on the Project Gutenberg link and confirmed my suspicion: it was "Dodge's Grist Mill", not "Dodge Grist's Mill".
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Re: Salem's Switch [13.9.11] V18a-P16 Gameplay Fences?

Postby cairnswk on Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:35 pm

TaCktiX wrote:The change in the fences is good, but several of the connected fences strangely change from white to gray as they change territory. It doesn't look quite right. I would be fine with fully gray fences and fully white fences, but the gray/white we-ran-out-of-paint-for-your-fence setup is odd.


OK, thanks TaCktiX...i hear you, and will check all the colours for uniformity as i get these finalised.

ender516 wrote:
cairnswk wrote:
ender516 wrote:The trees do make an effective alternative to the fences, by virtue of their contrast. Good choice.

But do the new fences work as mentioned above. :?:

Sorry, my silence was assent. The fences all look good.

EDIT: I took a close look at the old map on the Project Gutenberg link and confirmed my suspicion: it was "Dodge's Grist Mill", not "Dodge Grist's Mill".

Gee,s i can read somethings in horror. :oops: i didnt' even know what a "grist" was (but now do) Fixed next version. :)
Thanks for the fences. ;)
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Re: Salem's Switch [13.9.11] V18a-P16 Gameplay Fences?

Postby ender516 on Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:49 pm

One could justify the colour changes on the fences by saying some landowners kept up their property better than others, but really, TaCktiX is right, they should be uniform.
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