Forum

by **cairnswk** on Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:34 pm

ender516 wrote:I suppose we could set the starting positions to start with just two troops instead of the usual three.

That's another possibility. What about the new starting positions as per the bottom map?

by **ender516** on Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:50 am

Well the new starting positions may help, but allow me to think aloud here, so to speak.

To keep things fair, in every starting position, at least one of the accused/accuser pair must be vulnerable to the same extent. That is, each player must be equally vulnerable to losing that starting bonus. This is complicated by the variation in starting positions depending on the number of players. It would not be practical to arrange this so that every starting position can assault every other starting position in a balanced fashion. I think if we can arrange that every starting position is vulnerable to one other starting position, then we will have done as much as we can reasonably do. That may mean that in a 1 v 1 game, the first player has an advantage. However, if we set the troop numbers low enough, say, with drops of 2 and initial deployment of 1 (for three territories) + 2 (for the acc/acc pair) for a total stack of 5, the chance of breaking the second player's bonus is low (5 v 1,1,2 [buggy stop, buggy stop, opponent's starting territory] is 0.1854 and the chance of leaving yourself open to destruction via counter attack makes the blitz risky. In a 3-player game, one player may be relatively safe while the others battle it out, but I don't see a way around that. In a four-handed game, there may be one or two that are relatively safe. (Just one safe player could occur if some starting positions are vlulnerable to more than one other. If all positions are set up in balanced pairs, then in a 4-player game, you get either zero, two or four relatively safe players.)

Let's look at the new proposed positions and the shortest assault routes exist between them:

New Proposed Start Positions * indicate accused/accuser pairs

The assault routes that are too easy may be reparable with some fences, but the ones that are too far will need something else. As I noted, I think using John Proctor instead of Elizabeth Proctor could be a good idea.

What we may need to do is to list all short assault routes among all the accused and accusers, and see if we can select a set that defines a workable collection of starting positions.

Or maybe a different tack: set up starting positions which contain acc/acc pairs which are adjacent to each other, or nearly so (one buggy stop), and then make sure those pairs are well separated. This would likely require a few border changes to draw together the pairs. Off the top of my head, I imagine the following pairings:

Ann Putnam Jr., William Hobbs
Marcy Lewis, Susannah Martin
Elizabeth Parris, Sarah Osbourne
Johnathon Putnam, Sarah Cloyce
Elizabeth Harris, Sarah Bishop
Thomas Preston, Rebecca Nurse
Abigail Williams, Sarah Good
William Good, Martha Corey

I won't elaborate now on the details of how the borders would have to change, as I have been writing this post for close to three hours, and I will admit that I am not certain that it can all be worked out, including the separation I mentioned, but it's a jumping off point.

by **army of nobunaga** on Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:16 am

JUst played my first turn... I think we all need 30 turns before we comment...;

That is like my personal rule of thumb.

When he released cricket I played 5 turns, got eliminated.... and cursed him and his linear choke-point maps... I was wrong and admitted it in the thread.

This may need a lot of revision, but I am searching the games from some of you... some of you had not even played a turn.

by **DiM** on Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:41 am

i may be wrong but i think the term "killer neutrals" is not something clear for everybody.
i see people taking buggy stops and advancing everything there not knowing they're gonna lose those troops.
maybe replace "buggy stops are killer neutrals" with "buggy stops revert to 1 neutral each turn"

by **cairnswk** on Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:07 am

DiM wrote:i may be wrong but i think the term "killer neutrals" is not something clear for everybody.
i see people taking buggy stops and advancing everything there not knowing they're gonna lose those troops.
maybe replace "buggy stops are killer neutrals" with "buggy stops revert to 1 neutral each turn"

I agree Dim from my experience. Changes to the map are as below for this; at least we can get that off to lackattack quickly while deciding what others to make.

Click image to enlarge.

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s282 ... V34Scd.png
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s282 ... V34Lcd.png

by **DiM** on Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:53 pm

you say you agree but on the map it's still "killer neutrals" :-s

by **cairnswk** on Sun Apr 08, 2012 5:20 pm

DiM wrote:you say you agree but on the map it's still "killer neutrals"

in the game play map it probably does because the above maps have not been uploaed yet. If you still seeing the old version Ctrl + F5

by **natty dread** on Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:07 am

Actually, "the end of each turn" is wrong... killer neutrals reset at the beginning of the turn of the player that holds them.

I think it'd be best to just write "reset to 1 neutral" and nothing else.

by **cairnswk** on Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:23 am

natty dread wrote:Actually, "the end of each turn" is wrong... killer neutrals reset at the beginning of the turn of the player that holds them.

I think it'd be best to just write "reset to 1 neutral" and nothing else.

natty, refresh your image...i've changed that in the above but have left the start of each turn there so that there is no confusion as to when it happens

by **koontz1973** on Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:47 am

Killer neutrals do not reset to 1 neutral at the start of each turn though. They reset if held.

Buggy stop junctions revert to 1 neutral if held {at the start or your turn}- would be a better way without any confusion.

by **cairnswk** on Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:08 am

koontz1973 wrote:Killer neutrals do not reset to 1 neutral at the start of each turn though. They reset if held.

Buggy stop junctions revert to 1 neutral if held {at the start or your turn}- would be a better way without any confusion.

koontz1973...pls refresh thanks

by **danfrank** on Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:18 pm

Just reading the little bit you have going on about starting positions . ( i had no idea the map is historically correct , nice work C , thats pretty cool ) I agree that the game revolves around the accuser and accused pairs , i also feel that the map is not balanced , theres no reason to head into the township in a singles game . Gaining the witch and prison bonus would never happen in the current set up. I like the historical aspect and appreciate the research done to make this possible but...

by **cairnswk** on Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:27 pm

danfrank wrote:Just reading the little bit you have going on about starting positions . ( i had no idea the map is historically correct , nice work C , thats pretty cool ) I agree that the game revolves around the accuser and accused pairs , i also feel that the map is not balanced , theres no reason to head into the township in a singles game . Gaining the witch and prison bonus would never happen in the current set up. I like the historical aspect and appreciate the research done to make this possible but...

Thanks danfrank...although do realise this actually is a large area and there are many land tennants/owners that are not on this map for sheer space reasons and layout. Tituba for exmaple, was a slave belonging to Samual Parris, but because she is so instrumental to the story i.e. first person accussed and first person top confess to "witchcraft", she became a "territory" on the map. So really, while there a research behind the map, as always with my maps, in order to "create" something suitable for CC's purposes, one has to use creative license loosely based around that research.
Yes, the map is not balanced at present, and that is why i suggested a new set of starts to balance it better. Unfortunately these things are not always evident until BETA arrives. I appreciate your comments though.